EPT[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 18
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 10 2014 14:03 Ketara wrote: I remember people saying that nobody would buy Flare because Elder Lizard would do more damage until like 40 minutes into the game, explaining with math that this was bullshit, and being flamed for it anyway. late for this, but Flare is pretty shitty in its current incarnation for the vast majority of champions, especially in the competitive scene. Flare was only ever broken because Riot wayyyy over tuned the numbers on live release. We never saw broken Flare in the competitive scene since Riot patched it out pretty quick. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 10 2014 15:01 Ryuu314 wrote: I'm sure I'm late to the party but...buff timers moved to 2:30, does that mean buff monsters spawn at 2:30 instead of 1:55? Cause that's pretty big for jungle... Skirmishing saber also sounds potentially OP depending on how long a "long time" is. If it's any meaningful amount of time you can shut down ganks completely with that item... also, wtf is "execution damage" exactly... +X% of base damage per Y% missing health is the most basic version. On October 10 2014 15:12 Ryuu314 wrote: late for this, but Flare is pretty shitty in its current incarnation for the vast majority of champions, especially in the competitive scene. Flare was only ever broken because Riot wayyyy over tuned the numbers on live release. On the other hand, I can say that Flare only suck in competitive because Riot wayyyy overnerfed it. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Map change (ie., DotA runes): seems like it could be important for the frontline/support/jungler to grab more than anything else, though it also gives a buff to split pushers. Turret change: So the 4v0 split push will be back in competitive play? Also, sieging turrets to break high ground will take a lot longer now I feel. Homefield Advantage: a very minor change that I like. Elixir Changes: I kinda like it, but some clarification on the physical spell vamp vs. straight up Lifesteal might be needed. Dragon change: This is huge, and probably how Riot plans to not have 4v0 early towers being taken be plan A for all competitive games. I am guessing you'll want to try and stack the buffs on the jungler or your main carry, especially if you can get 5 Dragon kills. Baron change: Buff change is weird, basically says to end the game now, not spend 2-3 minutes dancing outside the opponent's base while you outlast them. I'll read through the other things now (items and champion changes) and comment on them later. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 10 2014 15:12 Gahlo wrote: +X% of base damage per Y% missing health is the most basic version. On the other hand, I can say that Flare only suck in competitive because Riot wayyyy overnerfed it. I disagree. Personally I'm not convinced there's a middle ground for the item. The item's design is trying to fundamentally change how junglers play the game. Junglers in competitive play have only ever been glorified lane supports, with the exception of 2013 Meteos, but I think that was more due to C9 simply outclassing everyone so Meteos could afford to not gank ever. Either the item is weak/balanced and no one will buy it in competitive play since it's more beneficial to gank lanes and control the map. OR, the item is broken enough to entirely change how jungle is played. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Most of the other things actually seem to just be number changes and explaining what the new items are. The major, overall change seems to be removing Negatron Cloak as a MR item and having the Null-Magic Mantle be the only MR item... And I don't agree with that. You're keeping Chain Mail as an armor item (and making it build out of 2 Cloth Shirts is pretty weird too). I thought the benefit/cost of the Negatron was in a pretty good spot overall, in terms of what it could be a component of, and as a flat, early game purchase while you ramped up into a midgame. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
Execution damage is probably a relic shield effect. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Heck, remove revive and giff buyback. Go full dota | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
I personally don't like buyback as a mechanic, even in Dota. It adds an extra strategic element to the late game since teams have to play around it, but it can get really really tedious. | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On October 10 2014 15:53 Ryuu314 wrote: yea, meant it as a joke. I personally don't like buyback as a mechanic, even in Dota. It adds an extra strategic element to the late game since teams have to play around it, but it can get really really tedious. It is also important to know that dying has a gold tax in dota but not LoL so in the super late game you could build a huge war chest and just keep buying back over and over. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
If you ult a Zed, and he in response begins his Death Mark ult (animation appears, his shadows show up, he appears next to his target like normal), your ult will stop channeling mid-flight, NOT deal the damage or CC, and go onto a full cooldown as though it had landed. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
If Riot wanted to, they could rebalance and port the revive trinket from Dominion to SR. That'd be a pretty interesting trade-off imo, map control for buyback. However, the problem is if. CD too high, it's useless. If CD is low enough for it to be viable, you'd effectively pigeonhole everyone into taking Flash/TP since having TP makes Revive exponentially better. | ||
739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
the more simple and open minded the game design is the more room there is for players to make real choices, when you have these jungle items that are 100% designed with a roll in mind and smite changes and buffs from camps and all this crap, it forces you to play exactly how riot want you to play, else you are just massively behind. very bad imo. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4186 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
It's exciting to see this much of a revamp, but I hope the game is better because of it. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 10 2014 13:53 Ketara wrote: Preeeeeeetty sure most of you guys thought Feral Flare was going to be shitty. TL thinks everything is going to be shitty all of the time. It's old and tired, and wrong most of the time. It was bad on release. It was buffed and strong, then overnerfed. Can you stop making shit up and putting them into people's mouths? That's annoying and the sense of novelty has long faded. On October 10 2014 16:43 Kinie wrote: Also, another thing to add to the list of bugs with Vi: If you ult a Zed, and he in response begins his Death Mark ult (animation appears, his shadows show up, he appears next to his target like normal), your ult will stop channeling mid-flight, NOT deal the damage or CC, and go onto a full cooldown as though it had landed. That's not "new" and it happens with anything making the target "untargetable". I assume it's intended too (same thing happens with Nautilus' ult, with the added part that going invisible cancels it too; it used to refund the cooldown in the latter case but not anymore). On October 10 2014 13:27 onlywonderboy wrote: Let's keep in mind they've been very clear a lot of these changes are experimental and might not make it into the actual Season 5 changes. Doesn't matter if it goes live or not, when they do Stat Growth Per Level Champion base stats and stat growth per level adjusted to help reduce the impact of early level advantages Roughly, characters will start the game with an additional 68% of their per level statistic compared to live. Each level, characters will gain from 72 to 128% of their per level statistic compared to live, totalling to 1700% of your per level statistic. it clearly shows how shitty their mentality and design direction is. Either they frontload the stats, making everyone closer and the late game champs close the gap in terms of stats faster, or they backload it, meaning everyone has their relative curves flattened until the late game champs burst ahead in the last levels. All-in-all, how the fuck is that even related to "clarity" and all the over buzzwords Riot pukes around? All in all, it'd probably shit on early game champions for a change. 'cause you know, Pantheon's archetype is so toxic for the game. These kind of design changes are beating a dead horse to undeath by reminding us that they hate it, then killing it again to make sure it doesn't stand back. After reading the rest of the changes: + Show Spoiler + - tower stuff is stupid and completely unintuitive. Towers gain a regenerating shield? That shields champions too? Inhibitor towers destroy their targets? TL;DR diving is made even harder, and using champions without mobility is punished even harder because you can't juggle aggro without compromising your teamfight positioning as well. Also hurts the comp relying on a single frontliner to run multiple threats and a support-y champ (like Nami). Bad. Bad, bad, bad. And stupid in its very concept. - "homefield advantage" is already accomplished through the whole "breaking the highground" stuff and the base layout. And the strong inhib towers. And another mobility stuff to make non-dashing champions cry some more. - the rune mechanic is artificial as fuck. - oh hey all-ins and stuff using elixirs is removed. Early game having an influence through power curves and setups and design is bad, 'mkay? - splitpushing with baron buff is dumb, but that's a numbers issue, not necessarily a design issue, I won't berate that one. - the whole "let's artificially make up for a team having killed dragons by making the next ones harder" is so contrived. - "fuck you guys and the ability to grab a quick chain vest/negatron to get better resistances before moving back to your main itemisation", 0K. Also let's kill the ability to leverage a lead. - buffs spawn 35s later because fuck you guys and your early ganks, being able to influence the game early on is toxic. - not sold on big camp rewards. Don't get me wrong: rewarding you for killing a monster by smiting it ties jungle rewards to smite rather than items, which is great. It's just "automatic ward detector", "automatic invasion ping" and "added execute damage" is pretty stupid. - items affecting Smite wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea... I dislike the way they do it, because it's so forceful, though. The enchantments are a pretty contrived way of avoiding the ohmwrecker-style "the active is neat but wtf are these stats" (also awkward: you give lifesteal to the AD guy, and CDR to the AS guy? Switch them up). - they brought back Shurelya, while making it offense-only, now it'll be coexisting with Talisman. "lulz" I guess. RoG has stats and screenshots btw. Physical vamp would indeed be broken on Riven and Fiora as is. Would also work well on Talon 'cept if he waits to be low before he casts he just dies. Overall it sounds like it nerfs most kind of early game advantages/levers, including shitty on early game-oriented power curves. At the same time it massively buffs siege defense and defender's advantage, while trying to make it faster to kill turrets once you start actually hitting them. They also introduce some dumb shit (like the minion buff aura which is specifically "kill turrets better", and the afk splitpush swarm host thing). Sounds like a recipe for disaster, and by disaster I mean turtling and stalling and overly long game with an even bigger emphasis on late game scaling champions, "hard" mobility (like dashes) and waveclear than now. Seriously if you don't want the Portal to be a must buy, you have to give it bad stats, and if you do, then you'll be behind in a 5v5 compared to people itemising for it. On paper it's nice, in effect it means you can just let the portal spltipush for you and just clear and push and avoid the other team at all cost till someone tries to find the portal and you go 5v4. That's so passive... Also what's with the spam of MS buff effects? | ||
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