EPT[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 20
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On October 10 2014 23:34 GrandInquisitor wrote: I usually am a Riot apologist but I agree with the clarity posts. I think a lot of these changes detract from clarity because they are not immediately obvious interactions. It is not intuitive that smiting a toad gives you a poison Thornmail-type DoT. Whenever you mouse over a jungle monster the game tells you what you will get for smiting it. I feel really uncertain about the changes in general but the clarity on this part of them is fine. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
I'm glad they are taking ideas from DotA instead of doing things intentionally to NOT be like DotA. Dunno about Necro in LoL though. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
But I like the rest of the changes minus maybe the intricate tower changes. I really like the direction they are going with the jungle items. Feels awesome, sounds awesome, I'm hyped. They removed the imbalance in clear on the items, and allowed you to pick whatever stat package you want off of it. Seems badass to me. The champion smites and the AoE smite seem really cool as well. I could totally see this beefing up competitive jungle diversity a ton, actually. Not necessarily making every one a jungler, but I think this brings tank jungles back, and I think it also allows a jungle to have a weaker early game than currently on live without being too fucked against a good lee/elise. I'm kind of iffy on the speed runes as well, but I think that's a interesting idea. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I think you guys overuse "clarity" as a statement though. Things are clear if they have obvious visual representations, which Riot is pretty good at doing. I'm not worried about clarity in regards to a lot of the things on the list. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 10 2014 23:44 yamato77 wrote: Intuitive gameplay is less important than making a game with more interesting interactions and actual viable choices. Many of these changes give you more ways to play what you want to play. I think the inclusion of items with stronger actives and buffs from jungle monsters will make jungling far better than it is now. It's important because of two things: - Riot drowns us in gibberish, especially lately with their "dev blogs", where they pretend to state core values by which they abide when designing. One of these is clarity, which they used to justify a number of changes (regardless of quality and pertinence of said changes). Almost everything in this batch of changes violates the principle of clarity they shoved so hard in our faces. Where's Riot credibility when they say something but do the opposite? - A bunch of them are uselessly contrived, for example the way the beam works, or the conditional buffs on several new items, etc. Also remember that a bunch of people don't know much about the jungle because it is so nood-"unfriendly"; when the jungle changes they don't necessarily know well what happens, and as far as I know Riot doesn't reference it anywhere but in the patch notes where it happens (it may be in the wiki, but outside of champions, items and stats the info is generally diluted). And in that bunch, more is straight-up bad: the wolf making you basically immune to counterjungling in one half (and ganks coming from behind at the same time, making it harder to flank/dive a tower for example), the rune and crab that give you free vision, the MS buff when you're inside your own base, etc. They aren't intuitive, but on top of that they don't even make much sense. So it compounds. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On October 10 2014 23:44 yamato77 wrote: Intuitive gameplay is less important than making a game with more interesting interactions and actual viable choices. Many of these changes give you more ways to play what you want to play. I think the inclusion of items with stronger actives and buffs from jungle monsters will make jungling far better than it is now. I'm glad they are taking ideas from DotA instead of doing things intentionally to NOT be like DotA. Dunno about Necro in LoL though. What is intuitive about not knowing what to smite now? Sure, eventually things will settle, and you'll be a noob if you smite A, B or C, because everyone will know only D and F are good (by this time intuition is already hurt), but what about newer players? Also, I doubt we will see many play including clutch smites, which resulted in a skirmish-changing buff. And how can you talk about intuitive gameplay when Riot is telling you how you can play? Maybe you found the current meta boring, but at least it wasn't Riot who forced you into that. The tower changes, the home advantage extra, the baron buff change, the fucking drake change (WHY ERASE THE GLOBAL GOLD? and what is that bs you are weaker vs drake if have killed it before, like jesus christ, what were they thinking?)... it's just so confusing, yet made everything more simplistic. Yay, we can turtle for an extra 10 minutes now, unless someone will finally buy ohmwrecker and uses it well, which is highly doubtful in soloq. "GUYS I DISABLED THE TURRET, WHERE ARE YOU?". My head hurts when I start to think about the changes. And no, it's not the kind of pain you get when you play Lee Sin or jukemaster LB, it's the migraine type of feeling where I just want it to end. "Yay, look how I utilized the shield from the inner turret!" - will say no one ever "Hey, don't let our Lee tank drake, he already killed it twice, let Garen do it! Oh no, wait, Garen killed it once when lee couldn't smite it, because he used it ON A CHAMPION, damn it, change formation!" - will do no one ever "Nice ohmwrecking, bro!" - it might happen, since Riot basically forced you to buy it, unless you want long-ass sieges. Such freedom! "Wow man, the way you flashed over the wall to smite toad, so the last auto attack from varus triggered poison-shield, so he died, and you leveled up, so the auto attack from toad did not kill you. Very good play." - this will totally happen imo, especially considering that many junglers (even higher elo) still don't know how to counter-jungle properly, or what are the exact timers of every buffs. The speed shrine is just the icing on the cake, I have no idea why did we need it, but get prepared for the "2v2 chase the crab" mini-game in every single game. What's next for s6? AP champs will be denied to build items like bf swords? The item will have a red remark of "please, don't troll.". Supports won't be able to go to any other lane until the 12th minute mark, because fuck 2v1 top, and fuck support mid/top in particular, you won't do that shit in our game! Just sad. Look at s4 and how they finally fixed supports, and how some of their bold moves were actually really helpful, like the trinkets. It was very useful, quite a big game-changer, but easy to use. Three trinkets for three different purposes, and soloq people mainly buy 2 of them 95% of the time, so it's not like new players were paralyzed when they saw them in the shop. Now we have voidrays, wtf shields, random buffs, and anti-siege mechanics, so those 99,99999% lost games can be dragged out longer, so maybe someone from the enemy team will finally say "fuck this, I'll try aother moba", and leaves. But don't worry, you will still have to siege for hours after that. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2014 23:34 GrandInquisitor wrote: I usually am a Riot apologist but I agree with the clarity posts. I think a lot of these changes detract from clarity because they are not immediately obvious interactions. It is not intuitive that smiting a toad gives you a poison Thornmail-type DoT. Yeah, I like most of the changes, but that's because I've been playing for a while. For new players it's going to be rough. Although maybe they are so big at this point are focusing on retaining current players at this point instead of getting new players. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
So you're not going to have all of the buffs, you're going to have to pick and choose. | ||
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 10 2014 23:55 Ketara wrote: That really is the main difference between LoL and DotA. LoL is easy to understand, DotA is not. That's barely true anymore. I'd say if all of these changes go through its definitely not true. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 11 2014 00:18 Ketara wrote: One thing that's important to remember about all these jungle buffs too is that you only get the buff if you smite the camp, and you only get to smite every other camp most of the time. So you're not going to have all of the buffs, you're going to have to pick and choose. That makes it more important for a player to have memorized what each one does. If you could get all of them, you could read each one as you got it, but the fact that you can only have some of them means you have to know the effects for all the camps in order to make an informed decision. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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