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On October 11 2014 00:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 00:18 Ketara wrote:
One thing that's important to remember about all these jungle buffs too is that you only get the buff if you smite the camp, and you only get to smite every other camp most of the time.
So you're not going to have all of the buffs, you're going to have to pick and choose. That makes it more important for a player to have memorized what each one does. If you could get all of them, you could read each one as you got it, but the fact that you can only have some of them means you have to know the effects for all the camps in order to make an informed decision.
just use the jungle item thats designed for counter jungling for your own jungle? instead of using the super short smite CD for quickly stealing big monsters, play safe, stick in your own jungle, and get every mini buff.
seems easy enough to avoid.
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On October 11 2014 01:35 yamato77 wrote:
I almost guarantee that league will be a better game if these changes go through. Maybe not all of them in their exact current iteration, but some of them at least.
Visual clarity will still exist. The game is not going to suddenly become harder to understand in a sight sense.
There will be a higher burden of knowledge but it comes as a tradeoff for more actual options with item choices and tactical decisions.
There is nothing wrong with the game taking some ideas from DotA. You all might hate that game on principle but it is successful for a reason.
I don't have anything against taking something from DotA. What i have something against is the "DotA does X so it must be right" mentality that a lot of people appear to have. Not anything that makes league more like Dota makes league better. There is already a Dota, it is called dota. You can play that if you want to play dota. There is no point in trying to make league become dota, because if that happens instead of league and dota, we have only dota. Which is obviously worse.
Thus, you can take a look at how dota does stuff. But you should not just do everything like dota does it, because some of the things dota does are absurdly antiquated relics from the way you coded stuff in a WC3 custom map, that are just being kept around for nostalgia.
There are some things i really like about Dota. I really like the bigger map with more things going on at the same time, and more ways to move between two places. The large range in different art styles of heroes is definitively a nice thing, too. In league, most champions are either busty human-ish women or muscular human-ish men, you simply don't have stuff like a twoheaded dragon, a guy who is basically a wave, or stuff like that. The way that there is a lot more map movement early on even in lower level games compared to LoL is also pretty nice.
Then there are some things i just don't know if i like them yet, like the much more active items which completely change how the game works at different times, and the much more impactful spells. Sure, it is pretty cool to have a spell that can silence a guy pretty much for the whole fight, or stun their whole team and nuke them pretty hard. On the other hand, it is incredibly annoying to die without even being able to use a single ability because you have been silenced for 10 seconds in a row by a single guy. I also thinks that nonscaling abilities greatly limit the way you can design heroes.
And there is stuff that is just silly and obviously a relic of wc3 custom map making, like aggro mechanics, the weird shop mechanics, the strange skill interactions that you can in no way predict without actually memorizing them, creep denies, or even the fact that they can't even sort the heroes by alphabet in their library system thingy, The people who will need that system are beginners. They will not know if you randomly classified a hero as dire or radiant, or maybe even which class he belongs to. But they will probably remember his name.
On October 11 2014 01:48 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 00:41 TheYango wrote:On October 11 2014 00:18 Ketara wrote:
One thing that's important to remember about all these jungle buffs too is that you only get the buff if you smite the camp, and you only get to smite every other camp most of the time.
So you're not going to have all of the buffs, you're going to have to pick and choose. That makes it more important for a player to have memorized what each one does. If you could get all of them, you could read each one as you got it, but the fact that you can only have some of them means you have to know the effects for all the camps in order to make an informed decision. just use the jungle item thats designed for counter jungling for your own jungle? instead of using the super short smite CD for quickly stealing big monsters, play safe, stick in your own jungle, and get every mini buff. seems easy enough to avoid.
The problem is more that you kill jungle camps faster then your smite cd, so you would have to randomly stand around for 20 seconds not killing anything while waiting for your smite cd to get all of the buffs. Else you always have to make the decision: Do i want this buff now, or the buff from the next camp instead? I can't have both unless i wait, which is probably a worse decision than either.
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United States47024 Posts
So because you lack knowledge about the mechanic, limit yourself to playing in a way that makes that lack of knowledge irrelevant?
I'm pretty sure Riot would say no to that.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
They only thing I do really miss from DotA2 are TP scrolls.
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On October 11 2014 01:53 TheYango wrote:
So because you lack knowledge about the mechanic, limit yourself to playing in a way that makes that lack of knowledge irrelevant?
I'm pretty sure Riot would say no to that.
Again, you can mouse over every jungle monster and get a description of what the mini buffs do. If it sounds good you smite it, there is no need to exactly memorize anything. If you're an experienced player and want to plan ahead then you just suck it up and plan ahead, smiting certain camps and doing them in certain orders is hardly a new thing to jungling. I can recite what each camp does now and all I've done is play 3 custom games, it's not that hard.
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maybe im just a total scrublord but i can easily forsee a sitaution with the current numbers where the buffs arent powerful enough to be worth the effort, you will smite on CD to get more overall smites, more overall camps, and more overall buffs. you wont be saving your smite to make sure you get a certain buff right on CD.
although that being said it depends entirely on how much harder they intend for the camps to be, if doing a jungle camp takes twice as long as on live then maybe its possible that people will happily skip across the entire jungle to keep killing the double golums asap.
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11589 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +Having scaling on every ability constricts how you design items. Having nonscaling abilities allows you to design heros that get relatively little from farm but a lot from experience as they increase the base damage of the ability but can't augment that with items (offlaners/junglers/supports all benefit from this). It also allows you to have strong items for auto attackers that don't rely on crit to make them cost efficient. Old BT was a problem because AD scaling exists. Now no one buys it except as a luxury. In DotA there are several items for auto attackers that either conflict directly with crit (because of the orb mechanic) or give just straight up ridiculous damage.
Items having strong actives gives extra depth to the slot/gold efficiency dynamic by allowing you to have an extra dimension of "stuff" to give to items so that they are both unique and yet still balanced for their cost. Blink Dagger, for instance, gives 0 stats but has an incredible active. It won't get that far in league probably but it will definitely allow people to play the game in more interesting ways. Right now there is little room to be creative with item choices, and these changes are a step in the right direction.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Whoa, these changes are all over the place.- Like the stats changes. The level 2 all-in is still a big breakpoint since you're down an ability (or two in a duo lane), but at least the difference is slightly less pronounced.
- Towers... yech. I'm not the first to say it, but this reads as overcomplicated. Does the new Rift visually distinguish turrets, or is it a copy-paste job for each one? That'd certainly help some. If this has to happen though, I think I'd almost prefer it apply to particular lanes rather than particular tiers to really mix things up things strategically. But even that would probably be a trainwreck.
- Minion changes are fine but are a reminder that penetration is a questionable mechanic that is currently implemented in an unquestionably stupid way.
- Homefield advantage I'm mostly okay with. It'll help in defending a naked inhibitor - which IMO is fine - but cracking the inhib turrets themselves can already be difficult. Might need to make the entryway to the base slightly more open to compensate.
- Red/Blue buff changes I think I'm net negative on. HP regen on Red seems reasonable, but nerfing the slow and damage (A) limits the distinctiveness of it, and (B) weakens early game presence of junglers. Not dramatically in scope, but it's annoying. And burn damage on towers is dumb and no one was asking for it. (As an aside, I'd like to see the buffs themselves change from season to season. Partly for the novelty of shaking up the go-to roster of champions, but something like an MS buff and an AS buff would really redefine the flow of the game.)
- No no no Riot, you were supposed to remove runes, not add them.
- Elixirs... meh. I actually miss the level 2 red elixir all-in. That looks a bit at odds with my first bullet, but the fact that you had to actually commit your buy to it made it more acceptable in my eyes. As is, it's still not obvious to me that you'd ever want to buy these before you completely finish your build, especially with the "must be level 9" restriction keeping them out of the early game.
- Baron is odd, but I'm tentatively positive. Could be a direct nerf against teams with great clear unless the melee minion changes end up being a big deal. Auto-homeguards I like. In solo queue it'll be clearer that everyone should base and buy rather than half the team doing that and the other half booking for buffs & towers. And in competitive, it'll add an extra wrinkle to the inhib-for-baron trade that will probably lead to more baron fights. I like competitive games to be bloodbaths, so I'm all in favor of that.
- Dragon whaaaaaat. Totally reworking the primary early-game objective is... certainly aggressive. The stacking buff is an interesting approach though, and like someone mentioned, an early sneak could have do work for your laners. The anti-snowball element is wonky looking and dear god I hope smite isn't affected by the damage reduction. It's definitely a clarity hit too, since it sits adjacent to gold and experience as a primary metric of a team's strength. The buff itself could affect itemization weirdly too; getting a dragon makes IE that much more attractive than BT since you're getting some extra sustain out of it. Increased AD/AP before increased MS or Health will further weaken bruisers in the mid-game, and I'm not thrilled with the prospect of that or the hashinshin threads that will spin out of it.
- Armor/MR items - if this means that Chain Vests and Negatrons are out of the game, this is stupid. If it means that Chain Vests and Negatrons are built out of 1 Cloth Armor/Null-Magic Mantle + some cash, it's about time. No talk of Ruby Crystals or Giants Belts makes me assume it's the former, though.
- Jungle looks like a complete clusterfuck. I've actually liked the idea of clearing camps to yield a vision benefit (similar to the Murkwolf thing) for a while, but the variety of effects and tying it all to Smite makes this ridiculously overcomplicated. Similar story for machete. And I don't know what the hell they're going for with the crab thing.
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When I got to the part about pros aging out after 25 I got a little sad because I'm 26. Not that I was ever remotely close to being pro or that it actually matters at my scrubby level but it's easy to get discouraged when people say the cards are stacked against you. =(
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chain vests arent out of the game yet at least. in some of the pictures that they had up on reignofgaming it showed chain vests building out of cloth armor
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Those heat graphs are definitely cool although I'm quite confused why they combined supports and ADC. I would really like it if there was a support only graph so I could see the change in priority of dragon/bot portion of the map to baron/top portion of the map. It does kind of happen anyways, but I feel like it would be more clear with support only.
Also, they show how isolated the top lane is. Not really the best thing.
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Oh man, thanks, it made my day.
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On October 11 2014 03:09 -Zoda- wrote:Oh man, thanks, it made my day.
Hilaaaaaaaaaarious.
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That was amazing, better than expected.
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United States15536 Posts
LARGE ANTHROPOID BRAIN
LOL
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What did thorin say to begin with? :p
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On October 11 2014 03:24 Osmoses wrote:
What did thorin say to begin with? :p
TL;DR version.
Thorin said racist shit about Poland.
Thorins job told him to STFU.
Thorin was later fired for saying other offensive things.
Since he was fired, he was then allowed to talk about the things he said, so he wrote a gigantic treatise trying to explain the Poland stuff in context so he didn't seem racist.
But when you read it, the treatise is still pretty racist and it's lol. The whole thing is basically "I said Poland was a shitty country. But in my defense, that's true."
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EPT
