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Depends if you can attack during the dash or have to wait that it finishes too. If it's the latter and the animation doesn't change with AS, then at some point it'd reduce her effective AS, making her damage lower than what another marksman's would be if both are forced to kite.
I imagine the mindgames too, walking toward her in teamfight so she steps back, 'cept you just barely turn to her to make the other player react then turn back to the others, so she dashes pretty far away from everyone and loses damage having to walk back in range.
And I'll admit that Rend's scaling (not the exact numbers, but the way it's done) looks better than what they've made us used to. It's intended as execution, but it's not the lame-ass (and pretty broken) Jinx ult, nor scaling like Riven's ult. You want to use it as a finisher not because it's stronger if they're low, but because it's stronger if you've hit them before (which also applies that they're lower anyway).
As for her W passive, it's basically 1.5%-2.5% max health per second as magic damage if she triggers it on cooldown. In that sense, it's weaker than Vi/Vayne/Amumu dps-wise, the difference being that it can be applied at range, and happens very quickly, so it's more burst (that can translate to a lot of damage if you can switch targets quickly in a fight, although marksmen usually don't want that), and you can harass with it.
As is, you'd probably want to max Rend first, both for the damage and the cooldown reduction (don't let the base damage fool you, with 6 stacks level 1 Rend does 40 + 1.2 AD, but level 5 does 240 + 1.8 AD, the % increase per level working on the ratio is what makes the ability).
Kalista opens a big window once she uses Rend because she has to wait for the cooldown before she can start applying stacks again, and then auto/Q some more to build up the damage. Until she has AS and levels in it that's a long-ass time, so if you can bait a Rend that doesn't kill something you should go ham on her (even if your steroid's on cooldown it's most likely shorter than Rend+build-up)
On the other hand, Sentinel's low on-hit cooldown means she's fine with taking pot shots every now and then or making short trades.
And since Rend's damage will mostly come from the first stack, she can also fish by throwing Qs at you, and if one hits (or you allow yourself to get auto'd), she can auto a near-dead minion so Rend will finish it off, and she'll get additional harass on you for "free" since the cooldown will be refunded and the mana cost is very low, even for her tiny pool
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On November 05 2014 21:36 Alaric wrote:
Depends if you can attack during the dash or have to wait that it finishes too. If it's the latter and the animation doesn't change with AS, then at some point it'd reduce her effective AS, making her damage lower than what another marksman's would be if both are forced to kite.
I imagine the mindgames too, walking toward her in teamfight so she steps back, 'cept you just barely turn to her to make the other player react then turn back to the others, so she dashes pretty far away from everyone and loses damage having to walk back in range.
And I'll admit that Rend's scaling (not the exact numbers, but the way it's done) looks better than what they've made us used to. It's intended as execution, but it's not the lame-ass (and pretty broken) Jinx ult, nor scaling like Riven's ult. You want to use it as a finisher not because it's stronger if they're low, but because it's stronger if you've hit them before (which also applies that they're lower anyway).
As for her W passive, it's basically 1.5%-2.5% max health per second as magic damage if she triggers it on cooldown. In that sense, it's weaker than Vi/Vayne/Amumu dps-wise, the difference being that it can be applied at range, and happens very quickly, so it's more burst (that can translate to a lot of damage if you can switch targets quickly in a fight, although marksmen usually don't want that), and you can harass with it.
Ah ya, the way you explained her W passive makes it sound far more reasonable, especially in comparison to existing % dmg AA modifiers. I think I might have initially got "new champ op" syndrome from browsing her wiki.
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The range on Q is not really long enough to safely fish for poke, trying to poke with it feels pretty dangerous compared to actual sieging skills like Nid's/Lux's/Varus's and she has zero threat if you're standing behind your (healthy) creeps. Q's range is also greater than E's, but it's still enough to get an E off on someone if they start hightailing it away from you... it generally feels like she has *just* enough range to do what she wants and no more. You can't cancel dash but so far it doesn't seem that prohibitive, like it partially compensates for AS in some way. But yeah, if someone turns around while you're dashing away suddenly you lose them and can't AA anymore to catch up again.
Hilariously, rend works with runaan's. It's much easier to just auto everything and execute it with Q though.
I'm not sure why the vision thing is even there except to confuse people. It's such a weird behavior and I'm not sure what it's supposed to add except annoyance.
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On November 05 2014 23:23 phyvo wrote:
The range on Q is not really long enough to safely fish for poke, trying to poke with it feels pretty dangerous compared to actual sieging skills like Nid's/Lux's/Varus's and she has zero threat if you're standing behind your (healthy) creeps. Q's range is also greater than E's, but it's still enough to get an E off on someone if they start hightailing it away from you... it generally feels like she has *just* enough range to do what she wants and no more. You can't cancel dash but so far it doesn't seem that prohibitive, like it partially compensates for AS in some way. But yeah, if someone turns around while you're dashing away suddenly you lose them and can't AA anymore to catch up again.
Hilariously, rend works with runaan's. It's much easier to just auto everything and execute it with Q though.
I'm not sure why the vision thing is even there except to confuse people. It's such a weird behavior and I'm not sure what it's supposed to add except annoyance.
I thought the idea was you auto a creep a bunch, then you can threaten to execute with q onto the opponent (into rend all in) and zone them like that, does that work? or is q too slow/short for it to be much of an implied threat~
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England6749 Posts
On November 05 2014 17:17 JazzVortical wrote:Up to this point, Ryze is just a balance nightmare though. Too strong or too weak. Also, has Alaric seen that they included a Vi bug fix yet? 
people say that about every champ. oh they go from too strong to too weak so easily. imo that just shows that in a mechanically simple game like lol, high level players are going to be able to exploit even tiny advantages because their play will be almost optimal. the line of 'perfectly balanced' is wider when the skill of the player can more easily prove decisive, they need to make the game more complex or they will be stuck in a constant cycle like this.
to me, as a relatively casual player its whatever, like most people i just wont play ryze anymore and move on, but if they want lol to be a 'real' sport, they cant continue like this forever.
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Wait this isn't off topic.
This thread sucks.
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Can I apply to be a mod so the issue can be resolved?
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not all mods can use css/html code to make background black either!
very important aspect of closing a patch thread.
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On November 06 2014 02:10 ComaDose wrote:
not all mods can use css/html code to make background black either!
very important aspect of closing a patch thread.
Can we just have this set up for all the league threads? Reading this site at night is a terror.
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On November 05 2014 23:28 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2014 23:23 phyvo wrote:
The range on Q is not really long enough to safely fish for poke, trying to poke with it feels pretty dangerous compared to actual sieging skills like Nid's/Lux's/Varus's and she has zero threat if you're standing behind your (healthy) creeps. Q's range is also greater than E's, but it's still enough to get an E off on someone if they start hightailing it away from you... it generally feels like she has *just* enough range to do what she wants and no more. You can't cancel dash but so far it doesn't seem that prohibitive, like it partially compensates for AS in some way. But yeah, if someone turns around while you're dashing away suddenly you lose them and can't AA anymore to catch up again.
Hilariously, rend works with runaan's. It's much easier to just auto everything and execute it with Q though.
I'm not sure why the vision thing is even there except to confuse people. It's such a weird behavior and I'm not sure what it's supposed to add except annoyance. I thought the idea was you auto a creep a bunch, then you can threaten to execute with q onto the opponent (into rend all in) and zone them like that, does that work? or is q too slow/short for it to be much of an implied threat~
Q, by my judgement, is a very average skill shot except in the damage department where it really chunks health bars. It's very useable but there's plenty of room to play around it. It's not like smite blitz is super OP, I don't think this is either. I think I would just try not to tunnel in on E's reset and Q's piercing. Landing a Q, immediately using E, getting the E reset because you set up a creep beforehand (who didn't die to your own minions or have your spear time out), and then getting to go all in would be really awesome, but also really situational. I expect that people will max Q first in lane because 60 damage a rank is huge and it doesn't require special set up.
Rather, I think the thing to really pay attention to is the the dash passive. Her base MS is in the worst bracket: 325, and her 550 range is very average, so you really need your dashes to properly pressure people. Q->E is not always enough to catch people unless you've got something to AA along the way (which isn't a guarantee but it does help). Teammates, of course, help with that too. During fights you really do kite like no one else and in lane I think you'll be able to follow up for your teammates really easily if they're not too far behind the creep wave. I feel like if you want to all-in the thing to do to just dash up to people after landing a Q or a teammate's engage, much like any other ADC.
But then this is PBE and I'm not a top tier player, these thoughts are just my feelings.
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No firefox support, 0/10.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
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EPT
