EPT[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 19
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On October 10 2014 18:01 Alaric wrote: It was bad on release. It was buffed and strong, then overnerfed. Can you stop making shit up and putting them into people's mouths? That's annoying and the sense of novelty has long faded. On the topic of making shit up, it would be nice if you didn't do that. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Feral_Flare Patch history: Added in 4.5 > nerfed in 4.6- > nerfed again in 4.7 It was never bad. It was never bad on test. It was nerfed on test before it got to live where it was still hilarious. It didn't see much if any competitive play because the meta at the time was 4v0 into immediate objective control and tower pushing with almost no clean laning phase to farm jungle monsters in and because it was nerfed before competitive play. Edit:added snark | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
The point is, TL didn't claim "Flare is shit and shouldn't never ever be used" like Ketara has the habit of spoutting to pretend he was right all along while we were all misguided, and that one stands. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Stat Growth Per Level Champion base stats and stat growth per level adjusted to help reduce the impact of early level advantages Roughly, characters will start the game with an additional 68% of their per level statistic compared to live. Each level, characters will gain from 72 to 128% of their per level statistic compared to live, totalling to 1700% of your per level statistic. Why is this fucking needed? | ||
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On October 10 2014 19:22 nafta wrote: I really don't understand why they have to make a new game every season.... Stat Growth Per Level Champion base stats and stat growth per level adjusted to help reduce the impact of early level advantages Roughly, characters will start the game with an additional 68% of their per level statistic compared to live. Each level, characters will gain from 72 to 128% of their per level statistic compared to live, totalling to 1700% of your per level statistic. Why is this fucking needed? people complain lol is on a decline and lcs viewership has dropped i think they are afraid game might die if they dont make it completely different every season | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 10 2014 19:29 kongoline wrote: people complain lol is on a decline and lcs viewership has dropped i think they are afraid game might die if they dont make it completely different every season Honestly there's nothing wrong with huge patches that change the game up. I think the issue is they also have tons of small patches that just continually nerf things so people can't really figure out everything in a patch like you can in Dota. They taking both approaches at the same time which counter each other. Also they don't do the one change they need for the competitive scene(Changing the draft system). Don't know who complains about lol being on the decline when they get huge viewership numbers on the big games. It's just there are far less big games these days due to the LCS system. They putting in work to change that next season. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On October 10 2014 19:35 krndandaman wrote: I think more people complained about the playstyle flare encouraged rather than how good the item was. That was one of the worst few weeks of LoL when every other game was fucking WW/Yi/Xin/Nocturne/Udyr just afk farming in jungle for 20 minutes and then come out to become a 1v5 machine. I found it quite refreshing actually. A nice break from a year and a half of Kha/Elise/Lee/Evelynn | ||
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Victolol
Germany46 Posts
Also don't forget that they tested lots of changes last Pre-Season as well, many of these won't make the cut in their current iteration. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On October 10 2014 18:46 Alaric wrote: Oh, right. It was broken on release and everyone knew it, then it was hotfixed and it was actually mostly fine, although it hinged on its timing, and then Riot nerfed the item on top of delaying the timing by a good 2 minutes, which is pretty big early (in 2 minutes a laner can get around 500 gold at the 12-15 minute mark, between cs and ambient gold, for example), making it even more situational and removing its then-current use. The point is, TL didn't claim "Flare is shit and shouldn't never ever be used" like Ketara has the habit of spoutting to pretend he was right all along while we were all misguided, and that one stands. Here are some quotes from the Feral Flare patch when it was first released, before the hotfix: "Frankly I am not too worried. I feel this isn't a good item for mana junglers. Most manaless junglers can't use it well either." "That's kind of my point. I don't think it's really that great of an item and the goal it's trying to accomplish is pretty bad. We got carry Junglers, they are just bitter it didn't happen to mean the same thing as they intended." "Feral flare could be kind of interesting, but it's just going to take SO long to get it going, especially since by the time you actually have it, your team will probably be farming the jungle pretty often as well. It takes 10 more stacks than spectral wraith just to get feral flare. I could see it being decent on someone like Yi in lower elo games since they tend to take longer to finish, and once you get a bunch of stacks you'll start restoring crazy amounts of health per hit." "Wriggles is so bad 25 monsters is waaaaaaaaaay to steep and the buff it gives is tiny for lost potential." "feral flare just seems like it's not going to be very useful at higher level games. As a guess, you wouldn't get wriggles>25 big creeps/kills/assists until the 20 minute mark in most games. Past 30 minutes, almost all my jungle farm goes to either the mid, or ADC. So much of the power of the spirit stone items is in the mana restore. It's hugely beneficial to be able to come out of the jungle with high mana so you can fight extended engagements. Even "cheap" junglers like noct who only use one skill per camp still run oom with a wriggles build. " That's just on the first page. 6 hours later everybody was banning Kassadin + 5 Feral Flare junglers with another 2 Feral Flare junglers getting picked anyway. The only person saying it's going to be good on that page is Gahlo. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
What a huge disappointment. I can't believe I'm saying this, but s3 looks awesome compared to this shitpile. And sadly, these changes (except the numbers of course, they are always under or overtuned at first) will definitely go through. The only thing that might be good is the stat/lvl change. That's an original idea, and I hope it accomplishes what it's meant to. But man, I almost cried when I saw you can't buy machete without smite, LOL. It's so pathetic how Riot desperately want to intervene. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On October 10 2014 19:29 kongoline wrote: people complain lol is on a decline and lcs viewership has dropped i think they are afraid game might die if they dont make it completely different every season Are there numbers somewhere to show that LCS viewership dropped in S4? | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Isn't it simpler to just get rid of these hyperboles and, say, talk about the items and changes and stuff instead of having clashes of egos over who's wrong or right like lately? I mean, I thought this was a thread about LoL but I've tended to doubt for awhile now. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11507 Posts
On October 10 2014 18:24 Osmoses wrote: I definitely think clarity takes a hit if even half these changes go live. Seems really unintuitive, all of it. Why does dragon hurt so much, ow! Oh I can see this ward, what? How did he see me over that wall? We gonna do baron, so we kill the crabmonster? Yeah, that's my main beef with those changes. Basically, the leg LoL has upon Dota is clarity. Dota has so many weird random rules and exceptions with no better reason than "That stuff was hard to code in WC3 editor, so we did it in some really wonky way" which then became the immutable word of god that must never be changed that it is absurdly hard to understand anything as a beginner. LoL on the other hand usually has a much more elegant design focussed on lesser, more universal rules. Just compare towers in LoL to towers in Dota to understand my point: Tower in LoL: Shoots minions if minions are in range, closest enemy champion if no minions are in range. Prioritizes minions by type. If you damage an enemy champion who is also under the turret, you become the target of the turret, until you walk out or it can no longer hit you for other reasons. Tower in Dota: Usually kinda shoots minions, but sometimes also champions if it doesn't like them for whatever reason (I think it might have something to do with distance?). Swaps to champions if you give an attack order on an enemy champion, even if you never even try to take a swing, because the turret can apparently read your mind. Doesn't swap on casts, but i think it swaps on damage to. Stops attacking you if you give an attack order on an ally (WTF is this?). Oh, and a 2 second timer is apparently also sometimes involved. Probably has 5 more random rules for weird situations. This is what makes LoL LoL. Stuff is clear to understand. Making the game more obscure with weird random rules and exceptions is not the way to go, if i want a game with weird random rules and exceptions, i'll play Dota. In my opinion, the main things holding LoL back are stuff like the 1-30 level thingy that is kind of pointless and annoying to newer players, and the complete impossibility of recruiting someone you know, because you simply can not play with them without making the game really unfun for them. And obviously dotas business model is a lot more consumer friendly, but i doubt that anyone except for valve can make money of shitloads of hats alone. Instead of constantly investing shittons into weird gameplay changes without any sort of real goal behind them, just fixing stuff like the launcher (Dota interface is so much better in that regard it's absurd) and getting some way to make it possible for established players to play with beginners in a way that is fun for everyone involved (I have no idea what that would look like, it's not easy to answer, but the main question that riot should try to answer anyways) would enable lol to become even more dominant. Making the game more weird and unintuitive will only annoy the players that like your game in a futile attempt to steal some of the players that like dota and that are not gonna switch anyways. | ||
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