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On October 05 2014 23:00 739 wrote:
Why would you ever start with coin? Spellthief provides you more combat stats and is nice for trading autoattacks, especially good for Janna, since she can shield and hit few AA's. Don't like coin personally.
No. Spell thief is nice for auto attacking someone who can't respond back or for an all in . The 5 HP a creep means that the total differential on coin is stronger than the total differential on thief. This is doubly true on first upgrade.
Some dude had some long post about how 10 damage/10 seconds is stronger than 10 HP/10 seconds and well it's wrong. I have 30-50 armor and MR from level 1 bot lane. You simple cannot do enough damage to make my sustain worse than your damage. The idea that coin is subpar to knife in lane is just flat wrong and ignores the numbers. With coin you can trade harder and more often into knife supports than the other way around.(so long as it's a trade).
It's good for lane swaps because of the extra tower push. It's good in winning lanes because the initial damage spike can create a lasting zone which might not exist otherwise. But against someone who is going to put as much or almost as much damage back on you it's weaker than the sustain.
That being said if you max q second you need to buy boots on Janna. It's the w move speed which makes no boots Janna tolerable.
On October 06 2014 12:01 Ketara wrote:
Really? You think it's a worse active than Bilgewater Cutlass, or Ohmwrecker, or Hextech Gunblade, or Twin Shadows?
Twin shadows has a fucking amazing active. Like really amazing. It hunts down stealthed champions, enemies in bushes, gives vision, and has a range of like a quarter of the map. It is one of the most game changing actives in the game up there with talisman.
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I dunno.
I think it's probably better to do 30 damage to the enemy carry than it is to heal 30 damage on your support.
I think Janna has a big shield that she uses when she goes in to trade, meaning it's difficult to actually make use of that extra HP regen in lane, because you don't actually take much damage when you go in to trade.
I also think that even if you were to argue that the HP regen on the coin stuff was as good as the damage increase on the spellthief stuff, the spellthief stuff still has more stats because it gives AP.
This argument has gotten tired. You guys are arguing against common sense, math and the entirety of professional play to say that you should buy Talisman and not get boots on Janna. It's pretty clear that no matter what evidence you're presented with you're not going to listen to it. There's not much more I can say about it.
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On October 06 2014 13:47 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 10:22 JazzVortical wrote:
I think you need at least 9 in defence regardless of support. That extra HP has saved me so many times. You definitely don't need it on Karma. The extra CDR and damage is way more important. Also, saying that FQC active is worse than cutlass is ridiculous.
I usually run 9/9/12 for supports. I think it's still mandatory, regardless of your pick. The amount of times I've gotten away from a bubble, hook or pull because I had an extra 40ish HP from masteries has pretty much sealed the deal for me.
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got to play free week Azir, he feels bad. Everything feels so clunky and slow, even with AS, and CDR, the usage of his soldier and ulti all feel extremely slow to activate. By the time you send your guys out with Q, the opponent has moved out of range in small skirmishes. Sort of annoying...
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he seems somewhat strong to me if you can survive until grail or Morello, but he's pretty awful on 0 items, ESPECIALLY before all 3 skills, so you are pretty much always losing by the time you hit his strong period if your opponent is as good as you. I didn't have any problems with the skills not flowing, he actually felt a lot more smooth than say Orianna back when her skills would global one another like 2 years ago.
just my quick impression of him, from ~3 games I played the day he dropped to 6300
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Azir certainly feels like he needs a buff.
I wouldn't call him terrible - his early/mid-game laning actually felt pretty solid (played a dozen or so games with him as a toplaner) but he just doesn't match up to so many other tops / mids in late-game.
I'd say he would be set, if the charge amount on his soldiers went up from 2 -> 3 (and/or the duration of soldiers was somewhat longer).
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On October 06 2014 14:30 Ketara wrote:
I dunno.
I think it's probably better to do 30 damage to the enemy carry than it is to heal 30 damage on your support.
I think Janna has a big shield that she uses when she goes in to trade, meaning it's difficult to actually make use of that extra HP regen in lane, because you don't actually take much damage when you go in to trade.
I also think that even if you were to argue that the HP regen on the coin stuff was as good as the damage increase on the spellthief stuff, the spellthief stuff still has more stats because it gives AP.
This argument has gotten tired. You guys are arguing against common sense, math and the entirety of professional play to say that you should buy Talisman and not get boots on Janna. It's pretty clear that no matter what evidence you're presented with you're not going to listen to it. There's not much more I can say about it.
You can't say the math is on your side when the math isn't on your side.
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United States35174 Posts
On October 06 2014 18:39 krndandaman wrote:wat. right after they win OGN? -_- reading the comments, apparently their pay is shit. why wouldn't they pay the players that just won a championship
Because Korean teams tend to treat players like replaceable parts while the Chinese teams tend to be run by rich people who have teams for the lulz, from what I've gathered.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Prolly easier to make it to Worlds with a Chinese team then with a KR team mb+plus the pay.
OGN is arguably(or unarguably) harder to win then Worlds.
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On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.
This amazing and deep strategic insight is brought to you by one of the "panelists" of lolesports.com power ranking column. Not leaving anything open to interpretation, coin is simply trash. Frost Queens Claim is the very best item in the game and should be bought on every single support. That includes Tresh, Braum, Alistar, Leona, Taric and Volibear. Also, in case of kill lanes on Xin Zhao, Jarvan and Pantheon. And support Rengar. There is not even a need to discuss it for five pages and do some math and discuss different use cases. Get with the program, guys!
That statement is about as correct (and valuable) as any power ranking ever posted on lolesports.com. Thank you for your insight. For some humor, here is the worlds power rank. Not sure if Neo had any hand in it though, they didn't put the names in this time and Neo didn't participate in the one before that.
Sorry, but I can't take anyone serious who is willing to vouch with his name for THAT kind of content.
Also, fuck you to whoever reported my "Whooosh" post. I was keeping on with the proud tradition of bashing retardation wherever it pops up and this is my thanks... 
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On October 06 2014 22:49 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. This amazing and deep strategic insight is brought to you by one of the "panelists" of lolesports.com power ranking column. Not leaving anything open to interpretation, coin is simply trash. Frost Queens Claim is the very best item in the game and should be bought on every single support. That includes Tresh, Braum, Alistar, Leona, Taric and Volibear. Also, in case of kill lanes on Xin Zhao, Jarvan and Pantheon. And support Rengar. There is not even a need to discuss it for five pages and do some math and discuss different use cases. Get with the program, guys! That statement is about as correct (and valuable) as any power ranking ever posted on lolesports.com. Thank you for your insight. For some humor, here is the worlds power rank. Not sure if Neo had any hand in it though, they didn't put the names in this time and Neo didn't participate in the one before that. Sorry, but I can't take anyone serious who is willing to vouch with his name for THAT kind of content. Also, fuck you to whoever reported my "Whooosh" post. I was keeping on with the proud tradition of bashing retardation wherever it pops up and this is my thanks...
You're retarded if you think anything lolesports pumps out for power ranking teams or players is genuine seeding belief rather than promotional media for Riot's LCS
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On October 06 2014 22:59 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 22:49 Celial wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. This amazing and deep strategic insight is brought to you by one of the "panelists" of lolesports.com power ranking column. Not leaving anything open to interpretation, coin is simply trash. Frost Queens Claim is the very best item in the game and should be bought on every single support. That includes Tresh, Braum, Alistar, Leona, Taric and Volibear. Also, in case of kill lanes on Xin Zhao, Jarvan and Pantheon. And support Rengar. There is not even a need to discuss it for five pages and do some math and discuss different use cases. Get with the program, guys! That statement is about as correct (and valuable) as any power ranking ever posted on lolesports.com. Thank you for your insight. For some humor, here is the worlds power rank. Not sure if Neo had any hand in it though, they didn't put the names in this time and Neo didn't participate in the one before that. Sorry, but I can't take anyone serious who is willing to vouch with his name for THAT kind of content. Also, fuck you to whoever reported my "Whooosh" post. I was keeping on with the proud tradition of bashing retardation wherever it pops up and this is my thanks... You're retarded if you think anything lolesports pumps out for power ranking teams or players is genuine seeding belief rather than promotional media for Riot's LCS
Thats my point. You have all these famous and supposed-to-be-knowledgable guys putting their names on a very very flawed product and vouching for its quality by that. Getting used by Riot to lend credibility to bullshit. I mean thats everyones choice, but you cant fault me for not taking anyone seriously that does that... integrity vs HEY GUYS MY TWITTER IS ON RIOTS WEBSITE.
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On October 06 2014 23:02 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 22:59 xes wrote:On October 06 2014 22:49 Celial wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. This amazing and deep strategic insight is brought to you by one of the "panelists" of lolesports.com power ranking column. Not leaving anything open to interpretation, coin is simply trash. Frost Queens Claim is the very best item in the game and should be bought on every single support. That includes Tresh, Braum, Alistar, Leona, Taric and Volibear. Also, in case of kill lanes on Xin Zhao, Jarvan and Pantheon. And support Rengar. There is not even a need to discuss it for five pages and do some math and discuss different use cases. Get with the program, guys! That statement is about as correct (and valuable) as any power ranking ever posted on lolesports.com. Thank you for your insight. For some humor, here is the worlds power rank. Not sure if Neo had any hand in it though, they didn't put the names in this time and Neo didn't participate in the one before that. Sorry, but I can't take anyone serious who is willing to vouch with his name for THAT kind of content. Also, fuck you to whoever reported my "Whooosh" post. I was keeping on with the proud tradition of bashing retardation wherever it pops up and this is my thanks... You're retarded if you think anything lolesports pumps out for power ranking teams or players is genuine seeding belief rather than promotional media for Riot's LCS Thats my point. You have all these famous and supposed-to-be-knowledgable guys putting their names on a very very flawed product and vouching for its quality by that.
Isn't that what promotional media is?
Also your amazing insight is brought by confirmed Gold V struggler http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/451859-patch-49-rip-khazix-general-discussion?page=50#1000 while last I checked Neo is Diamond V struggler
Also, recommending Spellthief's over Coin is a better statement to make than anything about Banner of Command any day http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/451859-patch-49-rip-khazix-general-discussion?page=17#335
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United States35174 Posts
On October 06 2014 22:49 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. This amazing and deep strategic insight is brought to you by one of the "panelists" of lolesports.com power ranking column. Not leaving anything open to interpretation, coin is simply trash. Frost Queens Claim is the very best item in the game and should be bought on every single support.
You look like you're a bit low on straw there. Should we go get you some more?
That includes Tresh, Braum, Alistar, Leona, Taric and Volibear. Also, in case of kill lanes on Xin Zhao, Jarvan and Pantheon. And support Rengar. There is not even a need to discuss it for five pages and do some math and discuss different use cases. Get with the program, guys!
Now you're just being an idiot or intentionally twisting the words to make a hypothetical tradeoff between Talisman and FQC include FoTM. Let alone the fact that there was math to support FQC being superior to Talisman. But I guess you're one of those people that thinks if they just argues semantics and throws around accusations, hoping that nobody else pays attention to what your opposition says or said.
That statement is about as correct (and valuable) as any power ranking ever posted on lolesports.com. Thank you for your insight. For some humor, here is the worlds power rank. Not sure if Neo had any hand in it though, they didn't put the names in this time and Neo didn't participate in the one before that.
Lemme guess, you never actually read the criteria for the power ranking articles he was actually a part of. Teams are valued by their in region strength, results, and projections from there. Nowhere does it say the teams head to head strengths are being measured.
Also, fuck you to whoever reported my "Whooosh" post. I was keeping on with the proud tradition of bashing retardation wherever it pops up and this is my thanks...
Yeah, how dare they report you for breaking the rules of posting a meme picture!
For as much as you're "bashing retardation," your posts is an awful lot like a dog rolling around in it's own poop.
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What the fuck. No one was talking about gimmicky shit like Rengar/Xin/Jarvan/Pantheon duo lanes, if that was obvious enough. The fact that you have to bring up this kind of hyperbolic nonsense in this pathetic attempt to discredit Neo is good enough to show that you have nothing to say at all.
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On October 06 2014 23:06 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 23:02 Celial wrote:On October 06 2014 22:59 xes wrote:On October 06 2014 22:49 Celial wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. This amazing and deep strategic insight is brought to you by one of the "panelists" of lolesports.com power ranking column. Not leaving anything open to interpretation, coin is simply trash. Frost Queens Claim is the very best item in the game and should be bought on every single support. That includes Tresh, Braum, Alistar, Leona, Taric and Volibear. Also, in case of kill lanes on Xin Zhao, Jarvan and Pantheon. And support Rengar. There is not even a need to discuss it for five pages and do some math and discuss different use cases. Get with the program, guys! That statement is about as correct (and valuable) as any power ranking ever posted on lolesports.com. Thank you for your insight. For some humor, here is the worlds power rank. Not sure if Neo had any hand in it though, they didn't put the names in this time and Neo didn't participate in the one before that. Sorry, but I can't take anyone serious who is willing to vouch with his name for THAT kind of content. Also, fuck you to whoever reported my "Whooosh" post. I was keeping on with the proud tradition of bashing retardation wherever it pops up and this is my thanks... You're retarded if you think anything lolesports pumps out for power ranking teams or players is genuine seeding belief rather than promotional media for Riot's LCS Thats my point. You have all these famous and supposed-to-be-knowledgable guys putting their names on a very very flawed product and vouching for its quality by that. Isn't that what promotional media is? Also your amazing insight is brought by confirmed Gold V struggler http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/451859-patch-49-rip-khazix-general-discussion?page=50#1000 while last I checked Neo is Diamond V struggler Also, recommending Spellthief's over Coin is a better statement to make than anything about Banner of Command any day http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/league-of-legends/451859-patch-49-rip-khazix-general-discussion?page=17#335
There is a reason why I don't say "LOL COIN IS TRASH EVERY SINGLE SUPPORT NEEDS FROST QUEENS BEST ITEM IN THE GAME". There is a reason I say "I like", "I think" and "Maybe". There is a reason why I ask question instead of stating ridiculous absolutes.
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On October 06 2014 23:10 koreasilver wrote:
What the fuck. No one was talking about gimmicky shit like Rengar/Xin/Jarvan/Pantheon duo lanes, if that was obvious enough. The fact that you have to bring up this kind of hyperbolic nonsense in this pathetic attempt to discredit Neo is good enough to show that you have nothing to say at all.
Neo specifically said "every support". Whoa that might include actually all use cases! Including gimmicky shit. Might have been a dumb statement to make, huh?
edit: Gahlo, the warning said "image macro".
Edit 2: Also, broad, universal, sweeping, hyperbolic statements are bad. Or so you tell me in your angry messages. So what makes Neos broad, universal, sweeping and hyperbolic statement the holy grail of wisdom and perfectly fine while mine isn't? Are you guys sucking some red dick?
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On October 06 2014 14:30 Ketara wrote:
I dunno.
I think it's probably better to do 30 damage to the enemy carry than it is to heal 30 damage on your support.
I think Janna has a big shield that she uses when she goes in to trade, meaning it's difficult to actually make use of that extra HP regen in lane, because you don't actually take much damage when you go in to trade.
I also think that even if you were to argue that the HP regen on the coin stuff was as good as the damage increase on the spellthief stuff, the spellthief stuff still has more stats because it gives AP.
This argument has gotten tired. You guys are arguing against common sense, math and the entirety of professional play to say that you should buy Talisman and not get boots on Janna. It's pretty clear that no matter what evidence you're presented with you're not going to listen to it. There's not much more I can say about it.
You can't realistically do 30 damage to enemy ADC for free as Janna. Your range is too poor for that and you will get punished unless your opponent is really bad.
It's far more realistic to poke a melee support as Janna.
Most melee supports run Tagon and they got tons of regen.
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EPT
