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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 06 2014 11:37 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at. Yeah but Talisman is not just good at disengage. I am sure you know that. It's a very strong item because it offers a lot to your team and it is extremely versatile. You can definitely disengage with it, but it's also very good for engaging or as a follow up to an initiation. It's stats are garbage and Janna already provides group movement speed. Hell, the active probably hits massive diminishing returns purely because the item is on Janna. Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:33 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up. No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating. It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick. You initiate teamfights as Janna by hitting someone with FQC and walking into W range? Are you sure? Pick != teamfight.
On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up.
Emphasis mine
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On October 06 2014 11:39 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:37 Gahlo wrote:On October 06 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at. Yeah but Talisman is not just good at disengage. I am sure you know that. It's a very strong item because it offers a lot to your team and it is extremely versatile. You can definitely disengage with it, but it's also very good for engaging or as a follow up to an initiation. It's stats are garbage and Janna already provides group movement speed. Hell, the active probably hits massive diminishing returns purely because the item is on Janna. On October 06 2014 11:33 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up. No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating. It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick. You initiate teamfights as Janna by hitting someone with FQC and walking into W range? Are you sure? Pick != teamfight. Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up. Emphasis mine
Then quote the correct post and don't try to splice their words together to fit a narrative, bro.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 06 2014 11:44 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:39 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:37 Gahlo wrote:On October 06 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at. Yeah but Talisman is not just good at disengage. I am sure you know that. It's a very strong item because it offers a lot to your team and it is extremely versatile. You can definitely disengage with it, but it's also very good for engaging or as a follow up to an initiation. It's stats are garbage and Janna already provides group movement speed. Hell, the active probably hits massive diminishing returns purely because the item is on Janna. On October 06 2014 11:33 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up. No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating. It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick. You initiate teamfights as Janna by hitting someone with FQC and walking into W range? Are you sure? Pick != teamfight. On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up. Emphasis mine Then quote the correct post and don't try to splice their words together to fit a narrative, bro.
So should wei2coolman, he quotes my post about initiation and starts talking about picks.
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On October 06 2014 11:38 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at. Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up. No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating. It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick. Stop being silly. Frost Queens is bought because it has the better gold generation and better stats. If any of the GP5 items could give you any of the actives, people would be going for Shurelias 90% of the time.
Yes we've been saying that for quite some time, that FQC has better stats and that's why you buy it.
Its active isn't that bad though. The Talisman active is in general better but the FQC active is still useful.
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On October 06 2014 11:49 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 11:38 cLutZ wrote:On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at. On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.
Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's. I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either). FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna. Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up. No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating. It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick. Stop being silly. Frost Queens is bought because it has the better gold generation and better stats. If any of the GP5 items could give you any of the actives, people would be going for Shurelias 90% of the time. Yes we've been saying that for quite some time, that FQC has better stats and that's why you buy it. Its active isn't that bad though. The Talisman active is in general better but the FQC active is still useful.
Useful in that it is better than no active. Its probably the worst active in the game outside of Banner of Command. There are champions (Olaf, Annie) and comps (zerg varieties, some aoe hard engage) that would instantly go up a whole tier if they made Talisman decent again.
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Really? You think it's a worse active than Bilgewater Cutlass, or Ohmwrecker, or Hextech Gunblade, or Twin Shadows?
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Yes, No (I forgot about that item!), Yes, Yes.
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What the hell...
So, I just won a game, and it shows up in my match history on the LoL website, but not in game... I'm in promo series too.
What do?
o.o
The client thinks the game totally doesn't exist, but it clearly exists on the Website... Should i PM support?
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I guess I should have worded it better, but a pick can be a result of an initiation. IMO FQC active is still better on Janna most of the time than Talisman, regardless of buildup/gold generation.
On October 06 2014 12:01 Ketara wrote:
Really? You think it's a worse active than Bilgewater Cutlass, or Ohmwrecker, or Hextech Gunblade, or Twin Shadows?
I really wish Ohmwrecker was a good item, the active is pretty solid, but the item is pretty trash.
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On October 06 2014 12:08 iCanada wrote:
What the hell...
So, I just won a game, and it shows up in my match history on the LoL website, but not in game... I'm in promo series too.
What do?
o.o
The client thinks the game totally doesn't exist, but it clearly exists on the Website... Should i PM support?
This happens occasionally, the best explanation for this is that the servers are a little jammed right now so the match recording is delayed, hopefully it shows up in your match history in a little while
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On October 06 2014 12:15 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 12:08 iCanada wrote:
What the hell...
So, I just won a game, and it shows up in my match history on the LoL website, but not in game... I'm in promo series too.
What do?
o.o
The client thinks the game totally doesn't exist, but it clearly exists on the Website... Should i PM support? This happens occasionally, the best explanation for this is that the servers are a little jammed right now so the match recording is delayed, hopefully it shows up in your match history in a little while
So I shouldn't worry about it? Shouldn't put up a ticket? Game was like an hour ago, and I've restarted client a couple times.
How behind does the server get?
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how the fuck is Cutlass on your list of bad actives?
as far as FQC goes...
idk I've always felt similarly torn on Nami, I'd prefer talisman active 10/10 times, especially since I think it makes Tidal wave more Dynamic, but in lane spellthief just rolls it over, and after lane it's really nice to get some ap from one of your mandatory Support item slots [as opposed to sightstone/michael's/locket/talisman]
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oh hey also what I came here to ask? has anyone experienced this Viktor bug, the one where you can't damage him at all until his shield animation ends? how is this character not disabled?
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On October 06 2014 12:06 cLutZ wrote:
Yes, No (I forgot about that item!), Yes, Yes.
Okay so, let me get this straight.
FQC: 1075 max range, 140 damage, 80% slow, AOE. 60s cd.
Worse than
Cutlass: 450 range, 100 damage, 25% slow, single target. 90s cd.
Gunblade: 700 range, 150+0.4 AP damage, 40% slow, single target, 60s cd.
Twin Shadows: Longish? range, no damage, 40% slow, two targets, 120s cd.
Is that your final answer?
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On October 06 2014 10:22 JazzVortical wrote:
I think you need at least 9 in defence regardless of support. That extra HP has saved me so many times.
You definitely don't need it on Karma. The extra CDR and damage is way more important.
Also, saying that FQC active is worse than cutlass is ridiculous.
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The only one that is close is Cutlass, and it upgrades. Also, cutlass synergizes with the kits of the people who build it. Sure, cutlass and gunblade actives also would suck dick on Janna, but they are very useful to Jax or Twitch (who actually build them). I don't really think that any champion really has a compelling need for the FF active. Plus, I don't think I have seen a pro use it effectively yet (nor anyone in soloQ).
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it's really hard for me to separate the actives from the items themselves, like the cutlass active is so good on the Heros that bulid Cutlass, but I guess technically if FQC gave the same exact stats and upgraded into bork you'd go FQC > Bruta > Bork on him. The problem with actually getting yourself to think this way is Cutlass does get the job done quite well on shit like Zed Akali and Jax
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Cutlass is so good because it's retarded cost efficient.
Even if it didn't have an active at all, 25 AD and 8% LS for 1400g is still decent.
I'm not trying to say that FQC is an OP item or that the active is the best thing ever or anything like that. But it is a useful active for what it does, and to call it the worst active in the game is a stretch.
The FQC active honestly resembles Glitterlance quite a lot. It's like being able to cast Glitterlance once every 60 seconds (without an AP ratio). Glitterlance is pretty good.
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A Glitterlance every 60 seconds is not good at all.
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I don't like the comparison either (the hitbox is way bigger, and being able to be enhanced by E is a BIG part of what makes it good) but I don't disagree with the main point
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EPT
