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On October 06 2014 02:45 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:39 Sufficiency wrote:
#4 - FQC has a better buildup than Talisman.
Janna likes Fiendish Codex more than Forbidden Idol.
That's absolutely not true. Janna nowadays max Q second and she needs a LOT of mana. Forbidden Idol is just as good of an item as Fiendish Codex.
Source? I don't really care for what you are arguing about, but this point you made here is incorrect. What type of Janna maxes Q second? I've seen the majority of Jannas nowadays max E first usually or alternate between W and E. Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:40 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:34 ketchup wrote:
I like how this topic started because sufficiency refused to buy boots on Janna. Which itself is fairly bullshit, and shouldn't be encouraged. Map movement + map warding is key for a support in the first place. Yes, one of the key point for Talisman is that I can skip boots on Janna. I am pretty sure Volband agrees with me that skipping boots on Janna is a reasonable choice. It's definitely not bullshit. I don't think even volband would recommend not getting boots on a support. He might defend you on coin, but he probably won't defend you on not buying boots at all.
I've seen it several times during World's/LCS, tried it myself, and I feel it's good (this is after her Q change). If someone has all the match histories of group stages we can pull them out and take a look.
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On October 06 2014 02:49 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:45 ketchup wrote:On October 06 2014 02:39 Sufficiency wrote:
#4 - FQC has a better buildup than Talisman.
Janna likes Fiendish Codex more than Forbidden Idol.
That's absolutely not true. Janna nowadays max Q second and she needs a LOT of mana. Forbidden Idol is just as good of an item as Fiendish Codex.
Source? I don't really care for what you are arguing about, but this point you made here is incorrect. What type of Janna maxes Q second? I've seen the majority of Jannas nowadays max E first usually or alternate between W and E. On October 06 2014 02:40 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:34 ketchup wrote:
I like how this topic started because sufficiency refused to buy boots on Janna. Which itself is fairly bullshit, and shouldn't be encouraged. Map movement + map warding is key for a support in the first place. Yes, one of the key point for Talisman is that I can skip boots on Janna. I am pretty sure Volband agrees with me that skipping boots on Janna is a reasonable choice. It's definitely not bullshit. I don't think even volband would recommend not getting boots on a support. He might defend you on coin, but he probably won't defend you on not buying boots at all. I've seen it several times during World's/LCS, tried it myself, and I feel it's good (this is after her Q change). If someone has all the match histories of group stages we can pull them out and take a look.
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/wiki/wcsurvivalguide2014
I remember seeing that all jannas go w max 2nd which surprised me but could have missed some.
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If you look on probuilds, most Janna's are maxing Q second.
Not that that matters for the "Janna needs a lot of mana argument" because Janna's mana costs are nearly identical if she maxes W second.
With E and Q max she uses 29 mana per second, and with E and W max she uses 27 mana per second. It is a less than 10% difference.
And like, Sufficiency.
You can build Talisman and skip boots and get that 20 movespeed, and then get a Blasting Wand to get 40 AP for 860 gold.
Or you can build FQC and boots and get 25 movespeed and 50 AP for 500 less gold and the same number of item slots, while having an item that gives better gold generation.
And yes, FQC gives better gold generation than Talisman. If you actually look at your games where support A has FQC and support B has Talisman, and examine how much gold they got from their items, FQC is always giving more gold, even when the FQC support is behind. It gives the most gold of the gold items and Talisman gives the least.
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On October 06 2014 02:51 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:49 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:45 ketchup wrote:On October 06 2014 02:39 Sufficiency wrote:
#4 - FQC has a better buildup than Talisman.
Janna likes Fiendish Codex more than Forbidden Idol.
That's absolutely not true. Janna nowadays max Q second and she needs a LOT of mana. Forbidden Idol is just as good of an item as Fiendish Codex.
Source? I don't really care for what you are arguing about, but this point you made here is incorrect. What type of Janna maxes Q second? I've seen the majority of Jannas nowadays max E first usually or alternate between W and E. On October 06 2014 02:40 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:34 ketchup wrote:
I like how this topic started because sufficiency refused to buy boots on Janna. Which itself is fairly bullshit, and shouldn't be encouraged. Map movement + map warding is key for a support in the first place. Yes, one of the key point for Talisman is that I can skip boots on Janna. I am pretty sure Volband agrees with me that skipping boots on Janna is a reasonable choice. It's definitely not bullshit. I don't think even volband would recommend not getting boots on a support. He might defend you on coin, but he probably won't defend you on not buying boots at all. I've seen it several times during World's/LCS, tried it myself, and I feel it's good (this is after her Q change). If someone has all the match histories of group stages we can pull them out and take a look. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/wiki/wcsurvivalguide2014I remember seeing that all jannas go w max 2nd which surprised me but could have missed some.
I scanned through about half of the games. What I see is that:
SHR Zero max Q second in two games
Lemonnation maxed Q second in one game (the other game he maxed W first and E second)
Lustboy, Mata, TPA's support maxed W second
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On October 06 2014 02:51 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:49 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:45 ketchup wrote:On October 06 2014 02:39 Sufficiency wrote:
#4 - FQC has a better buildup than Talisman.
Janna likes Fiendish Codex more than Forbidden Idol.
That's absolutely not true. Janna nowadays max Q second and she needs a LOT of mana. Forbidden Idol is just as good of an item as Fiendish Codex.
Source? I don't really care for what you are arguing about, but this point you made here is incorrect. What type of Janna maxes Q second? I've seen the majority of Jannas nowadays max E first usually or alternate between W and E. On October 06 2014 02:40 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:34 ketchup wrote:
I like how this topic started because sufficiency refused to buy boots on Janna. Which itself is fairly bullshit, and shouldn't be encouraged. Map movement + map warding is key for a support in the first place. Yes, one of the key point for Talisman is that I can skip boots on Janna. I am pretty sure Volband agrees with me that skipping boots on Janna is a reasonable choice. It's definitely not bullshit. I don't think even volband would recommend not getting boots on a support. He might defend you on coin, but he probably won't defend you on not buying boots at all. I've seen it several times during World's/LCS, tried it myself, and I feel it's good (this is after her Q change). If someone has all the match histories of group stages we can pull them out and take a look. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/wiki/wcsurvivalguide2014I remember seeing that all jannas go w max 2nd which surprised me but could have missed some.
Hm, I scanned through a few, and there are some instances of pros who do seem to max Q second. The Korean pros seem to prefer max W second though for the most part although there are cases where they will max Q. Lemonnation definitely seems to prefer Q max second.
Thanks for the info. I really thought people were alternating more between W and E than what the games suggests. It looks like I'm wrong on my info though since there are a decent number of cases where Q is maxed second too.
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On October 06 2014 02:54 Ketara wrote:
If you look on probuilds, most Janna's are maxing Q second.
Not that that matters for the "Janna needs a lot of mana argument" because Janna's mana costs are nearly identical if she maxes W second.
With E and Q max she uses 29 mana per second, and with E and W max she uses 27 mana per second. It is a less than 10% difference.
And like, Sufficiency.
You can build Talisman and skip boots and get that 20 movespeed, and then get a Blasting Wand to get 40 AP for 860 gold.
Or you can build FQC and boots and get 25 movespeed and 50 AP for 500 less gold and the same number of item slots, while having an item that gives better gold generation.
And yes, FQC gives better gold generation than Talisman. If you actually look at your games where support A has FQC and support B has Talisman, and examine how much gold they got from their items, FQC is always giving more gold, even when the FQC support is behind. It gives the most gold of the gold items and Talisman gives the least.
I am not sure how you are calculating this "mana cost" difference with Q and W. Q is a long range skillshot that you can use whenever you want. W is a fairly low range point and click.
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On October 06 2014 02:58 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:51 nafta wrote:On October 06 2014 02:49 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:45 ketchup wrote:On October 06 2014 02:39 Sufficiency wrote:
#4 - FQC has a better buildup than Talisman.
Janna likes Fiendish Codex more than Forbidden Idol.
That's absolutely not true. Janna nowadays max Q second and she needs a LOT of mana. Forbidden Idol is just as good of an item as Fiendish Codex.
Source? I don't really care for what you are arguing about, but this point you made here is incorrect. What type of Janna maxes Q second? I've seen the majority of Jannas nowadays max E first usually or alternate between W and E. On October 06 2014 02:40 Sufficiency wrote:On October 06 2014 02:34 ketchup wrote:
I like how this topic started because sufficiency refused to buy boots on Janna. Which itself is fairly bullshit, and shouldn't be encouraged. Map movement + map warding is key for a support in the first place. Yes, one of the key point for Talisman is that I can skip boots on Janna. I am pretty sure Volband agrees with me that skipping boots on Janna is a reasonable choice. It's definitely not bullshit. I don't think even volband would recommend not getting boots on a support. He might defend you on coin, but he probably won't defend you on not buying boots at all. I've seen it several times during World's/LCS, tried it myself, and I feel it's good (this is after her Q change). If someone has all the match histories of group stages we can pull them out and take a look. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/wiki/wcsurvivalguide2014I remember seeing that all jannas go w max 2nd which surprised me but could have missed some. Hm, I scanned through a few, and there are some instances of pros who do seem to max Q second. The Korean pros seem to prefer max W second though for the most part although there are cases where they will max Q. Lemonnation definitely seems to prefer Q max second.
SHR Zero maxes Q second in all of his games.
I think maxing Q second is fine if you want just spam Q and be generally annoying. It's very mana heavy though.
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On October 06 2014 02:54 Ketara wrote:
If you look on probuilds, most Janna's are maxing Q second.
Not that that matters for the "Janna needs a lot of mana argument" because Janna's mana costs are nearly identical if she maxes W second.
With E and Q max she uses 29 mana per second, and with E and W max she uses 27 mana per second. It is a less than 10% difference.
And like, Sufficiency.
You can build Talisman and skip boots and get that 20 movespeed, and then get a Blasting Wand to get 40 AP for 860 gold.
Or you can build FQC and boots and get 25 movespeed and 50 AP for 500 less gold and the same number of item slots, while having an item that gives better gold generation.
And yes, FQC gives better gold generation than Talisman. If you actually look at your games where support A has FQC and support B has Talisman, and examine how much gold they got from their items, FQC is always giving more gold, even when the FQC support is behind. It gives the most gold of the gold items and Talisman gives the least.
In addition, Blasting Wand is absolute garbage on supports anyway.
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I think he might be referring to my preference to get death cap on Janna.
And yes I do have some unhealthy fetish for dcap Janna.
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If you're fed and you want to get an AP item on Janna I think that's fine. She has pretty high AP ratios actually.
But FQC is still better than Talisman. If you're buying a Deathcap wouldn't you want FQC even more?
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I played a bunch of ranked games yesterday and was last pick/support in ~60% of them, including 4 of 6 promo matches. I won the 2 promo games where i was mid and jg and lost the four support games.
I really need a new support champ to play. What is a good one to carry a bit harder? I dont have thresh or braum. Maybe i should get one of those.
Support is without a doubt my least played, least favorite to play, and worst role.
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Leona and Annie are pretty fuckin' awesome power supports. The engage is awesome and you can just 1v1 people as annie support if you get far enough ahead lol.
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On October 06 2014 03:03 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 02:54 Ketara wrote:
If you look on probuilds, most Janna's are maxing Q second.
Not that that matters for the "Janna needs a lot of mana argument" because Janna's mana costs are nearly identical if she maxes W second.
With E and Q max she uses 29 mana per second, and with E and W max she uses 27 mana per second. It is a less than 10% difference.
And like, Sufficiency.
You can build Talisman and skip boots and get that 20 movespeed, and then get a Blasting Wand to get 40 AP for 860 gold.
Or you can build FQC and boots and get 25 movespeed and 50 AP for 500 less gold and the same number of item slots, while having an item that gives better gold generation.
And yes, FQC gives better gold generation than Talisman. If you actually look at your games where support A has FQC and support B has Talisman, and examine how much gold they got from their items, FQC is always giving more gold, even when the FQC support is behind. It gives the most gold of the gold items and Talisman gives the least. In addition, Blasting Wand is absolute garbage on supports anyway.
mejais janna #1, pussy supports need not apply.
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Annie. Yes. Next game i support im playing her. Can someone give me a good rune mastery setup for her? I think that might be part of my supporting troubles too.
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On October 06 2014 03:52 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 03:03 Gahlo wrote:On October 06 2014 02:54 Ketara wrote:
If you look on probuilds, most Janna's are maxing Q second.
Not that that matters for the "Janna needs a lot of mana argument" because Janna's mana costs are nearly identical if she maxes W second.
With E and Q max she uses 29 mana per second, and with E and W max she uses 27 mana per second. It is a less than 10% difference.
And like, Sufficiency.
You can build Talisman and skip boots and get that 20 movespeed, and then get a Blasting Wand to get 40 AP for 860 gold.
Or you can build FQC and boots and get 25 movespeed and 50 AP for 500 less gold and the same number of item slots, while having an item that gives better gold generation.
And yes, FQC gives better gold generation than Talisman. If you actually look at your games where support A has FQC and support B has Talisman, and examine how much gold they got from their items, FQC is always giving more gold, even when the FQC support is behind. It gives the most gold of the gold items and Talisman gives the least. In addition, Blasting Wand is absolute garbage on supports anyway. mejais janna #1, pussy supports need not apply.
0 wands.
On October 06 2014 04:00 Vaporized wrote:
Annie. Yes. Next game i support im playing her. Can someone give me a good rune mastery setup for her? I think that might be part of my supporting troubles too.
HyPen/Health/MR/Armor, 21/9/0
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Short question. Before yesterdays server maintenance on EUW, I've played solo ranked game and won after 45-50 minutes game. After I've clicked "Victory" I got that "Reconnect to the game" button and servers died. I didn't get points/win for that and game is not listed in my match history but somehow op.gg has it recorded.
If I write to support, will they provide me the win/points or not really?
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On October 06 2014 04:13 739 wrote:
Short question. Before yesterdays server maintenance on EUW, I've played solo ranked game and won after 45-50 minutes game. After I've clicked "Victory" I got that "Reconnect to the game" button and servers died. I didn't get points/win for that and game is not listed in my match history but somehow op.gg has it recorded.
If I write to support, will they provide me the win/points or not really?
I doubt it, Riot doesn't like to mess with match histories.
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Also it is just one game.If they answered to every single person about 1 game it would take eternity.
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On October 06 2014 04:07 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 03:52 wei2coolman wrote:On October 06 2014 03:03 Gahlo wrote:On October 06 2014 02:54 Ketara wrote:
If you look on probuilds, most Janna's are maxing Q second.
Not that that matters for the "Janna needs a lot of mana argument" because Janna's mana costs are nearly identical if she maxes W second.
With E and Q max she uses 29 mana per second, and with E and W max she uses 27 mana per second. It is a less than 10% difference.
And like, Sufficiency.
You can build Talisman and skip boots and get that 20 movespeed, and then get a Blasting Wand to get 40 AP for 860 gold.
Or you can build FQC and boots and get 25 movespeed and 50 AP for 500 less gold and the same number of item slots, while having an item that gives better gold generation.
And yes, FQC gives better gold generation than Talisman. If you actually look at your games where support A has FQC and support B has Talisman, and examine how much gold they got from their items, FQC is always giving more gold, even when the FQC support is behind. It gives the most gold of the gold items and Talisman gives the least. In addition, Blasting Wand is absolute garbage on supports anyway. mejais janna #1, pussy supports need not apply. 0 wands. Show nested quote +On October 06 2014 04:00 Vaporized wrote:
Annie. Yes. Next game i support im playing her. Can someone give me a good rune mastery setup for her? I think that might be part of my supporting troubles too. HyPen/Health/MR/Armor, 21/9/0
Go full manmode: Hypen/MR/AR/AP Quints
edit:
Jana goes Frostqueens because AP is good and selling an item is deadweight loss. Supports have low gold and cant afford it. Otherwise they would start Dorans and go double Dorans and shit.
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EPT
