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[Patch 4.17] Soraka/Viktor General Discussion - Page 54

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 52 53 54 55 56 78 Next
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 05 2014 21:55 GMT
#1061
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-05 22:01:17
October 05 2014 21:59 GMT
#1062
i got support in my first game today and tried annie. I went 21/9/0, mpen reds (dont have hybrid), armor, ap blues, ap quints. i was 4-1-4 after lane hah! it was pretty fun too. Thanks for the recommendation, I rarely (never) play annie.

On a different note, what are people's feelings about vikter now that the rework has settled a bit? he seems REALLY strong to me. I hope the nerfs arent too severe, if/when they come.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
October 05 2014 22:02 GMT
#1063
On October 06 2014 06:59 Vaporized wrote:
i got support in my first game today and tried annie. I went 21/9/0, mpen reds (dont have hybrid), armor, ap blues, ap quints. i was 4-1-4 after lane hah! it was pretty fun too. Thanks for the recommendation, I rarely (never) play annie.

On a different note, what are people's feelings about vikter now that the rework has settled a bit? he seems REALLY strong to me. I hope the nerfs arent too severe, if/when they come.

I've only seen him in 1 game and he got ridiculous fed before I interacted with him so I have no idea.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 05 2014 22:09 GMT
#1064
After seeing him in a number of games, I think he's stronger now, but not quite as broken OP as I figured he'd be.

I think in order to really shine he requires a "protect the Viktor" team comp. Something like Nami support, Lulu top and Ashe/Varus ADC who can peel while he does the DPS would really make him look good IMO.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 05 2014 22:16 GMT
#1065
On October 06 2014 06:59 Vaporized wrote:
i got support in my first game today and tried annie. I went 21/9/0, mpen reds (dont have hybrid), armor, ap blues, ap quints. i was 4-1-4 after lane hah! it was pretty fun too. Thanks for the recommendation, I rarely (never) play annie.

On a different note, what are people's feelings about vikter now that the rework has settled a bit? he seems REALLY strong to me. I hope the nerfs arent too severe, if/when they come.

W or Q start? I've been going Q more often now.
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 05 2014 22:33 GMT
#1066
I just played with the most awesome poppy, holyshit.

Dude had like 4000 games on poppy, and this guy was the best poppy I have ever seen.

Wow. Was forced into support poppy by our team, and this guy still just hard carried us. Like holy shit. As a support without gold items he had like 12k gold at the 25 minute mark. Like wut... just blew me away.

By 25 minute mark he was godlike and just 1v3ing kids all over the map. Its been awhile since I seen a poppy hardcarry like that.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 05 2014 22:35 GMT
#1067
I'm too used to old Viktor for new Viktor.

He is still good, I just feel like every game I win with him right now I could have won with old viktor like 10 minutes earlier.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 05 2014 22:39 GMT
#1068
I don't like 21/9 on aggro supports.

IMO you should go 9/7/14 or 5/11/14.

Most of the points in offense after 9 are late game oriented (aside from the 21pt), and even if you start aggro on a support you're not going to transition into a full AP build.

14 points in utility gives you the GP10 which is stronger on a support in the late game, and the early points in utility are better in initial laning than anything in offense is.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
October 05 2014 23:06 GMT
#1069
I started w but, well it was my first game as annie support. like i said before, I never play annie (probably less then 10 games as her in the several thousand i've played), i didn't remember how short the range of her spells was.

the masteries... i sorta wanted to see what the most dps i could do was, with the ap runes and 21/9. 5/11/14 is probably what i will try next game.

re: poppy. yeah, there are a few people like that around. I saw one months ago. it is horrifying to play against.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
October 06 2014 01:10 GMT
#1070
I go 9/0/21 on Karma and Annie. I've always started W on Annie just so I can have the stun right away.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
October 06 2014 01:22 GMT
#1071
I think you need at least 9 in defence regardless of support. That extra HP has saved me so many times.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
October 06 2014 01:25 GMT
#1072
On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.


I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either).
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-06 02:25:38
October 06 2014 02:25 GMT
#1073
On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.


I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either).

FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna.

Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up.
liftlift > tsm
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
October 06 2014 02:28 GMT
#1074
On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:
On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.


I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either).

FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna.

Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up.

No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 06 2014 02:29 GMT
#1075
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 06 2014 02:31 GMT
#1076
On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:
On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.


I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either).

FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna.

Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up.

No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating.

It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick.
liftlift > tsm
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 06 2014 02:33 GMT
#1077
On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at.


Yeah but Talisman is not just good at disengage. I am sure you know that.

It's a very strong item because it offers a lot to your team and it is extremely versatile. You can definitely disengage with it, but it's also very good for engaging or as a follow up to an initiation.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
October 06 2014 02:33 GMT
#1078
On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:
On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:
On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.


I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either).

FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna.

Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up.

No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating.

It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick.

You initiate teamfights as Janna by hitting someone with FQC and walking into W range? Are you sure?
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-06 02:38:39
October 06 2014 02:37 GMT
#1079
On October 06 2014 11:33 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at.


Yeah but Talisman is not just good at disengage. I am sure you know that.

It's a very strong item because it offers a lot to your team and it is extremely versatile. You can definitely disengage with it, but it's also very good for engaging or as a follow up to an initiation.

It's stats are garbage and Janna already provides group movement speed. Hell, the active probably hits massive diminishing returns purely because the item is on Janna.

On October 06 2014 11:33 Scip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:
On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:
On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.


I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either).

FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna.

Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up.

No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating.

It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick.

You initiate teamfights as Janna by hitting someone with FQC and walking into W range? Are you sure?

Pick != teamfight.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 06 2014 02:38 GMT
#1080
On October 06 2014 11:29 Ketara wrote:
The FQC active is better for getting a pick on a single target or running away from one person. The Talisman active is better for teamwide disengage, which Janna is already stupid good at.



On October 06 2014 11:31 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2014 11:28 Scip wrote:
On October 06 2014 11:25 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 06 2014 10:25 deth2munkies wrote:
On October 06 2014 06:55 NeoIllusions wrote:
Coin is entirely subpar to Spellthief's in lane. I'd go as far as saying that Frost Queen is better than Talisman on pretty much any support, save perhaps a play making Thresh or Annie.

Talisman on Janna is just silly. Just get Captain's.


I disagree. Talisman has situational value if you have a team that needs the MS for initiation. Both while initiating and in fights, you don't want your team moving towards you, so captains is of limited value (unless, of course, you flash monsooned someone into your team, but captains doesn't really help there either).

FQC is far more powerful as an initiation tool, especially with Janna.

Think about how well Nunu chases down individuals, now you do that with janna who has a nado follow up.

No, it's not. 40% mspeed for your entire team for 3s is way more powerful for initiation than an 80% decaying slow for 2 seconds that's also a skillshot. It's funny that you use Nunu as an example when he's a champion who is well known for being absolutely awful at initiating.

It's such a strong slow pick tool, along with easy nado + W follow up. It either forces the flash, or they're caught. FQC+Zephyr+ Nado is almost always guaranteed pick.


Stop being silly. Frost Queens is bought because it has the better gold generation and better stats.

If any of the GP5 items could give you any of the actives, people would be going for Shurelias 90% of the time.
Freeeeeeedom
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