EPT[Patch 4.17] Soraka/Viktor General Discussion - Page 58
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
On October 07 2014 02:43 sung_moon wrote: Anybody know where to look up at the players rune/masteries during the Worlds games? I saw Cool with biscuits on Jayce. Kind of curious what he was running. This blog has been posting them as blog entries. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
" items (more situationally powerful actives!)" I'll believe it when I see it. Edit: Also there is no way they achieve their goals in this post lol. It requires a fundamental change in the way Riot views balance philosophy and I doubt they can actually commit to that. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
See, that's why we try to have sensical discussions here (when people don't shit the bed for pages of egos over actual discussion), because even "above average" League players have no damn idea what's going on. And as an ex-Viktor main, it's so frustrating to see them fail that hard but entrench in their stubborn ways... | ||
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Lost My Will To Live
Botswana601 Posts
On October 06 2014 22:49 Celial wrote: This amazing and deep strategic insight is brought to you by one of the "panelists" of lolesports.com power ranking column. Not leaving anything open to interpretation, coin is simply trash. Frost Queens Claim is the very best item in the game and should be bought on every single support. That includes Tresh, Braum, Alistar, Leona, Taric and Volibear. Also, in case of kill lanes on Xin Zhao, Jarvan and Pantheon. And support Rengar. There is not even a need to discuss it for five pages and do some math and discuss different use cases. Get with the program, guys! That statement is about as correct (and valuable) as any power ranking ever posted on lolesports.com. Thank you for your insight. For some humor, here is the worlds power rank. Not sure if Neo had any hand in it though, they didn't put the names in this time and Neo didn't participate in the one before that. Sorry, but I can't take anyone serious who is willing to vouch with his name for THAT kind of content. Also, fuck you to whoever reported my "Whooosh" post. I was keeping on with the proud tradition of bashing retardation wherever it pops up and this is my thanks...  You're not doing a very good job of bashing retardation when you're the retarded one. Despite what you may think of Neo, his game knowledge is still good because of over 4 years playing experience and from these 2 posts clearly much greater than yours. Let's be real all he's saying is that Frost Queen's Claim is better than Talisman on any applicable champion. Why do you feel the need to extend it to champions that would clearly get Targons? And it's true because statistically speaking the buildup and pieces are statistically better in lane than the coin buildup pieces. If you want to be the hero of this forum, I suggest you start by learning the game before you try to call out clearly more knowledgeable people than you because you just sound like a moron. The fact that you even try to discredit Neo by shitting on the power rankings, bear in mind that no one cares about power rankings besides dumbasses. Those power ranks are only there to generate discussion and are pretty much all speculation because we never get to see international competitions besides Worlds. On October 07 2014 00:02 Sufficiency wrote: Sure, but I think we need to put Neo's article to higher standard because it is published on Riot's website. It's like the difference between me telling you that relative risk is garbage in an informal setting and me publishing a paper on RSSB saying it is garbage. Power Rankings, Fantasy LCS Posts, and other similar types of articles should never be taken seriously because they're all based on hypothetical information. No one knows how teams are going to play against each other until they actually do, and who knows how many kills Froggen will rack up each week for your fantasy team. It's all speculation and treating them like serious articles that determine how knowledgeable Riot's League writers are is just ludicrous. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:07 onlywonderboy wrote: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/K6OeAZ7t-experimental-preseason-2015-changes-hitting-the-pbe-over-the-next-few-days I'll believe it when I see it. Edit: Also there is no way they achieve their goals in this post lol. It requires a fundamental change in the way Riot views balance philosophy and I doubt they can actually commit to that. Another jungle camp? Well I'll be interested to see where that goes, I wonder if riot is still going to be in their pursuit of the fabled promised land of the balanced carry jungler. | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
On October 06 2014 23:12 Celial wrote: Neo specifically said "every support". Whoa that might include actually all use cases! Including gimmicky shit. Might have been a dumb statement to make, huh? edit: Gahlo, the warning said "image macro". Edit 2: Also, broad, universal, sweeping, hyperbolic statements are bad. Or so you tell me in your angry messages. So what makes Neos broad, universal, sweeping and hyperbolic statement the holy grail of wisdom and perfectly fine while mine isn't? Are you guys sucking some red dick? That is the most nitpicky shit I've ever seen. I hate people who do this. They see you missed one word, and go crazy trying to make you look like a fool, and in the end they're the ones who end up making themselves look really dumb. It's obvious from the context he meant all applicable supports. But I guess you just have to feel right so badly that you become "that guy" | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:07 onlywonderboy wrote: http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/K6OeAZ7t-experimental-preseason-2015-changes-hitting-the-pbe-over-the-next-few-days I'll believe it when I see it. Edit: Also there is no way they achieve their goals in this post lol. It requires a fundamental change in the way Riot views balance philosophy and I doubt they can actually commit to that. They've been more willing to admit that they've fucked up and this time we don't see World's being played in a 2 week old patch so I have high hopes Maybe they're seeing the success of a renewed Blizzard? | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:08 Alaric wrote: Man, screw the rework. I keep seeing Viktor, and... well the last one trying to rush mana and the level 3 augment while having 0 armour (or HP) from his runes and masteries, against a Jayce. See, that's why we try to have sensical discussions here (when people don't shit the bed for pages of egos over actual discussion), because even "above average" League players have no damn idea what's going on. And as an ex-Viktor main, it's so frustrating to see them fail that hard but entrench in their stubborn ways... i've been watching bigfatlp before i go to sleep for the last week or so, and hes been spamming viktor games. his build drives me nuts though. he generally goes athenes, q upgrade, morellos. he does alright, but it seems like he could be doing way more damage with different items. i dont like the way he treats his dog, and he seems like a dick in game. I should stop watching him. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
"We fucked up last time, you were right, and we have to try extra hard to deliver for you. Our focus is always on listening to you, the players, and providing a good experience. Thanks for supporting us and being so awesome, we will deliver!" That's Korean interviews level PR at that point, and their actions don't really act on it. I mean, I don't necessarily want them to listen to the players. There's so much trash to wade through before you get to a decent idea. I'd like it more if they said "we don't give a shit about your ideas, we are the designers" and actually did pay some attention so stuff they find interesting without being ashamed of taking from it. But atm it's closer to "ask playerbase for input, selectively take what fits what we wanted anyway, use it as proof that we listen to calm them down". | ||
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:15 Fusilero wrote: Another jungle camp? Well I'll be interested to see where that goes, I wonder if riot is still going to be in their pursuit of the fabled promised land of the balanced carry jungler. Unless they change the jungle structure, the only place I can see it going is between the base and red buff. Everything else gets decent traffic outside of the corridor following the side lane on blue buff side. When it comes to jungling, Riot will push out what shape they want junglers to have in the game then people will complain about it. Finally, they'll undo as much of it as they can and leave jungling in a shit spot yet again. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
I don't think the hp regen is as useless as people think, because if you do trade, you'll probably take more damage than the shield protects for unless you're already winning. Spellthief does 1 damage every second (assuming you never have more than max stacks), and not always on the same target. It also gives .25 gold every second. This assumes best use case. Coin gives 0.4 gold every second and heals 1hp every second, assuming best use case. Well, doesn't seem as though comparing these two things is easy at all. Janna can surely be offensive in the right conditions, but she's mostly pretty passive. It depends more on your opponents and your adc. I don't know which comps you'll want which item more on, but I think it's dumb to use math on the two items on Janna without considering everything else going on. It's hard to know which item you'll want even if you want to be offensive, because you can either do more damage or heal more. Roaming is worse with coin, so you need to consider that too. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:28 Gahlo wrote: Unless they change the jungle structure, the only place I can see it going is between the base and red buff. Everything else gets decent traffic outside of the corridor following the side lane on blue buff side. When it comes to jungling, Riot will push out what shape they want junglers to have in the game then people will complain about it. Finally, they'll undo as much of it as they can and leave jungling in a shit spot yet again. Yea I'm sure they'll do some changes and junglers become both incredibly dynamic and powerful then they'll scale(NERFBAT) it all back until we only see 3/4 junglers ever played I doubt they'll change terrain since the initial double golems blue side could have just been solved with some simple terrain changes which they refused to do instead changing spawn timers and turret armour. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:32 Dark_Chill wrote: I still find that using math to compare the two items seems incredibly weird. I don't know why people are looking at the items only on Janna, when it should be looking at what team Janna is playing with. Some champs probably do want Janna to get FQ more, and some may want talisman more. The inlane comparisons are important, so there the math is important. And the thing I find about spellthief is that Janna is really squishy. Like, seriously squishy. She has a shield, but using it means you give up a large portion of your ability to fight. Fighting is dangerous, because if anything goes wrong, you're pretty screwed (weak offensive support). I don't think the hp regen is as useless as people think, because if you do trade, you'll probably take more damage than the shield protects for unless you're already winning. Spellthief does 1 damage every second (assuming you never have more than max stacks), and not always on the same target. It also gives .25 gold every second. This assumes best use case. Coin gives 0.4 gold every second and heals 1hp every second, assuming best use case. Well, doesn't seem as though comparing these two things is easy at all. Janna can surely be offensive in the right conditions, but she's mostly pretty passive. It depends more on your opponents and your adc. I don't know which comps you'll want which item more on, but I think it's dumb to use math on the two items on Janna without considering everything else going on. It's hard to know which item you'll want even if you want to be offensive, because you can either do more damage or heal more. Roaming is worse with coin, so you need to consider that too. Best case gold income from STE is 2g/10 from passive generation and 5g/10 from using a singular stack, since Janna cant drop stacks simultaneously like Morgana can if she drops pool on multiple champions(which puts the stacks on the same cooldown instead of a queue.) This causes optimal gold gain from Janna to come out at .7g per second, not .25g per second. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On October 06 2014 23:54 TheHumanSensation wrote: I also really like banner of command, but it isn't good by any means. If you want to do one of those support-into-AP-carry things with like Annie or Zyra then maybe? The minion aura is actually super weak for pets though. Yeah, I think the only cool use of banner of command that I've found is that if you're heimer you can promote a minion and use that minion to tank turret shots for your own turrets, allowing them to do a ton more damage for your push. But it's ridiculously niche and probably not actually worth it. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Against many lanes, she can't get in enough poke to seriously take advantage of every stack, so the gold generation early is a wash, and later doesn't matter. The item is what matters. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:53 deth2munkies wrote: Coin on Janna is useful in situations where her team requires a speed boost for initiation. Whether its big initiation abilities like a Malphite or Maokai that can suddenly get in range, or when there's no long range at all. If there's plenty of initiation elsewhere and she needs to focus on disengage/skirmishes, FQ is better. Against many lanes, she can't get in enough poke to seriously take advantage of every stack, so the gold generation early is a wash, and later doesn't matter. The item is what matters. I'm just saying, if we consider gold generation we should use correct #s. In perfect scenarios on Janna, it's .7/s with optimal usage of a single stack on Spellthief and .4 or .46r on Coin depending on cannon wave or not. That means that Spellthief will match Coin's prefect gold generation at 40% or 52% usage on single stack situations. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 07 2014 03:18 xes wrote: They've been more willing to admit that they've fucked up and this time we don't see World's being played in a 2 week old patch so I have high hopes Maybe they're seeing the success of a renewed Blizzard? That is a good point, learning from their mistake about patching too close to Worlds is actually a pretty huge deal. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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