EPT[Patch 4.17] Soraka/Viktor General Discussion - Page 60
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 07 2014 07:19 wei2coolman wrote: That's a lie, when Sivir + Olaf was a thing, talisman active was godly good. Not only that, let's look at the balance changes to the 3rd tier items since those days(last competitive use of that comp in a league I can find is in OGN Champion's Winter.) + Show Spoiler [FQC] + V4.13: Gold per 10 seconds reduced to 2 from 4. V4.5: Recipe cost increased to 515g, up from 315g. Total cost increased to 2200g, up from 2000g. Ability power increased to 50, up from 40. V4.3: Recipe changed to : Frostfang item.jpg Frostfang + Fiendish Codex item.png Fiendish Codex + 315g = 2000g Old recipe: Frostfang item.jpg Frostfang + Amplifying Tome item.png Amplifying Tome + 715g = 2000g. Ability power reduced to 40 from 50. Now grants +10% cooldown reduction. Passive – Tribute: Gold per hit increased to 10g from 8g. Now triggers up to three times every 30 seconds, from once per 10 seconds per enemy. Now affects enemy structures. Now deals 15 additional damage on abilities and autoattacks. Damage matches the attack's damage type. No longer disabled after killing a minion. Active – Arctic Embrace: No longer requires an enemy to cast. Damage increased to 50 (+5 per level) from 50. Slow increased to 80%, from 50%. Slow decays over the duration. + Show Spoiler [FoTM] + V4.5: Recipe cost increased to 385g from 185g. Total cost increased to 2200g from 2000g. Health regeneration reduced to 20 from 25. Health increased to 500 from 375. V4.3: New Recipe: Reaper's Emblem item.jpg Targon's Brace + Kindlegem item.png Kindlegem + 285g = 2000g Passive – Spoils of War: Heal changed to 50 (+1% of your maximum health) from 2% of your maximum health. Heal now affects the wielder as well as the nearest allied champion. Triggering the passive grants gold equal to the kill instead of gold equal to the kill plus 5. Triggering the passive grants +1 to the creep score of the allied champion who receives the bonus gold. Active – Deadly Phalanx: No longer costs health to cast. Damage changed to 100% of the target's AD + 30% of the target's AP, from 10% of your maximum health. + Show Spoiler [Talisman] + V4.13: Bonus movement speed increased to 20 from 0. Health regeneration increased to 15 per 5 seconds from 10. Cooldown reduction reduced to 10% from 20%. V4.10: Combine cost increased to 635g from 580g. Total cost unchanged. V4.5: New Recipe: Nomad's Medallion item.png Nomad's Medallion + Forbidden Idol item.png Forbidden Idol + 585g = 2200g. Total cost increased to 2200g, up from 2000g. Mana regeneration increased to 15 from 10. V4.3: Recipe cost decreased to 955g from 970g (total cost remains the same). Mana regeneration reduced to 10 from 15. Passive – Favor: Gold per minion death reduced to 3g from 4g. Now heals for 10 health per minion death. Talisman was godly because not only did it have by far the best active but it had the best stats of all the support items. Since then all the actives got better and the stats are more in line between them all. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 07 2014 07:38 Gahlo wrote: Not only that, let's look at the balance changes to the 3rd tier items since those days(last competitive use of that comp in a league I can find is in OGN Champion's Winter.) + Show Spoiler [FQC] + V4.13: Gold per 10 seconds reduced to 2 from 4. V4.5: Recipe cost increased to 515g, up from 315g. Total cost increased to 2200g, up from 2000g. Ability power increased to 50, up from 40. V4.3: Recipe changed to : Frostfang item.jpg Frostfang + Fiendish Codex item.png Fiendish Codex + 315g = 2000g Old recipe: Frostfang item.jpg Frostfang + Amplifying Tome item.png Amplifying Tome + 715g = 2000g. Ability power reduced to 40 from 50. Now grants +10% cooldown reduction. Passive – Tribute: Gold per hit increased to 10g from 8g. Now triggers up to three times every 30 seconds, from once per 10 seconds per enemy. Now affects enemy structures. Now deals 15 additional damage on abilities and autoattacks. Damage matches the attack's damage type. No longer disabled after killing a minion. Active – Arctic Embrace: No longer requires an enemy to cast. Damage increased to 50 (+5 per level) from 50. Slow increased to 80%, from 50%. Slow decays over the duration. + Show Spoiler [FoTM] + V4.5: Recipe cost increased to 385g from 185g. Total cost increased to 2200g from 2000g. Health regeneration reduced to 20 from 25. Health increased to 500 from 375. V4.3: New Recipe: Reaper's Emblem item.jpg Targon's Brace + Kindlegem item.png Kindlegem + 285g = 2000g Passive – Spoils of War: Heal changed to 50 (+1% of your maximum health) from 2% of your maximum health. Heal now affects the wielder as well as the nearest allied champion. Triggering the passive grants gold equal to the kill instead of gold equal to the kill plus 5. Triggering the passive grants +1 to the creep score of the allied champion who receives the bonus gold. Active – Deadly Phalanx: No longer costs health to cast. Damage changed to 100% of the target's AD + 30% of the target's AP, from 10% of your maximum health. + Show Spoiler [Talisman] + V4.13: Bonus movement speed increased to 20 from 0. Health regeneration increased to 15 per 5 seconds from 10. Cooldown reduction reduced to 10% from 20%. V4.10: Combine cost increased to 635g from 580g. Total cost unchanged. V4.5: New Recipe: Nomad's Medallion item.png Nomad's Medallion + Forbidden Idol item.png Forbidden Idol + 585g = 2200g. Total cost increased to 2200g, up from 2000g. Mana regeneration increased to 15 from 10. V4.3: Recipe cost decreased to 955g from 970g (total cost remains the same). Mana regeneration reduced to 10 from 15. Passive – Favor: Gold per minion death reduced to 3g from 4g. Now heals for 10 health per minion death. Talisman was godly because not only did it have by far the best active but it had the best stats of all the support items. Since then all the actives got better and the stats are more in line between them all. I still remember when 5 man targons was a thing. Shit was hilarious. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
On October 07 2014 07:47 Slusher wrote: when you could do double targons bot and execute with ranged attacks, if your opponent didn't know they were FUCKED after first back I remember those times, jungler camping bot was very real | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
What's dumb about this argument is that Sufficiency and Goumindong are arguing that the laning stats of Coin and Spellthief are equal. Which they're not, but even if they were, Spellthief would still be better because it gives way more gold. The argument that Janna can't make good use of it is bullshit. In order for it to give more gold than Coin all you have to do is trade with the enemy duo once every other minion wave. That's not hard to do. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2014 07:33 kongoline wrote: why the hell did they decide to change shurelya, it was such a good item -.- Because Riot dislikes it when a support item is good enough for a non-support champion to consider it. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 07 2014 10:10 Slusher wrote: the double dorans into shurelya build on rework olaf was super legit and then they took the item away It was like 1 or 2 glorious patches. They did the rework (he still kinda sucked) buffed Olaf (Glory) then killed Shurelias. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
its one of the reasons ive gone to dota nowadays is the item diversity is quite a bit better | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 07 2014 10:24 arb wrote: i hope they just rework items completely or something tbh. its one of the reasons ive gone to dota nowadays is the item diversity is quite a bit better double edged sword imo. one of the main things that bug me about dota has always been the overly large number of items, and the annoyance of having to go to a 2ndry area to get access to a subset of items. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 07 2014 10:37 wei2coolman wrote: double edged sword imo. one of the main things that bug me about dota has always been the overly large number of items, and the annoyance of having to go to a 2ndry area to get access to a subset of items. It really depends. If an item rework ends in the elimination of the Support/Jungle items, that alone is a win. If it introduces a carry gold generation item, another win. If it introduces more actives onto more diverse items, again, a win. However, if they just make a lot more banner of commands, while nerfing the good items like BotRK, Zhonyas, etc, then it is a loss. Just looking at AP/AD items, I would do something like: DCap+IE stay as the main damage multiplier items, Void/LW are somehow changed to tankbuster niche items, and make all the other items bring something unique utility wise, but not be so obviously needed like Athenes. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 07 2014 10:47 cLutZ wrote: It really depends. If an item rework ends in the elimination of the Support/Jungle items, that alone is a win. If it introduces a carry gold generation item, another win. If it introduces more actives onto more diverse items, again, a win. However, if they just make a lot more banner of commands, while nerfing the good items like BotRK, Zhonyas, etc, then it is a loss. Just looking at AP/AD items, I would do something like: DCap+IE stay as the main damage multiplier items, Void/LW are somehow changed to tankbuster niche items, and make all the other items bring something unique utility wise, but not be so obviously needed like Athenes. Imagine if ohmwrecker had 0 AP. It would be 1k cheaper, and worth getting at 1k gold cost. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On October 07 2014 10:47 cLutZ wrote: It really depends. If an item rework ends in the elimination of the Support/Jungle items, that alone is a win. If it introduces a carry gold generation item, another win. If it introduces more actives onto more diverse items, again, a win. However, if they just make a lot more banner of commands, while nerfing the good items like BotRK, Zhonyas, etc, then it is a loss. Just looking at AP/AD items, I would do something like: DCap+IE stay as the main damage multiplier items, Void/LW are somehow changed to tankbuster niche items, and make all the other items bring something unique utility wise, but not be so obviously needed like Athenes. I remember in the preseason they were thinking about making LW/Void only effecting bonus Armor/MR. Just set it to that and maybe up the % a bit would be nice. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 07 2014 09:04 Ketara wrote: Spellthief is better because it gives more gold. What's dumb about this argument is that Sufficiency and Goumindong are arguing that the laning stats of Coin and Spellthief are equal. Which they're not, but even if they were, Spellthief would still be better because it gives way more gold. The argument that Janna can't make good use of it is bullshit. In order for it to give more gold than Coin all you have to do is trade with the enemy duo once every other minion wave. That's not hard to do. What is the point of buying a revolver in lane when you can just buy a blasting wand? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 07 2014 11:40 Sufficiency wrote: What is the point of buying a revolver in lane when you can just buy a blasting wand? that's why no one buys revolver in lane. | ||
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