EPT[Patch 4.15] Master Tier General Discussion - Page 55
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
This statement irks me in art discussions because while it is true that good/bad art can be highly subjective that does not mean that criticism against art is meaningless. At some point there are enough plot holes, stupid concepts, and poorly written narrative that a story goes from "meh" to "bad". That point will vary from person to person but it's there. If you give up on it then you can't say anything really interesting about art at all (IMO). The reason why you create a story for LoL is to help people attach themselves to characters that they then might then buy. A story behind a champion helps define who they are and helps make the visual and audio artwork you interact with in-game cohesive. Although many factors go into peoples' purchases it seems self-evident to me that boring characters will simply sell less, and characters with no story are, well, boring. After that, world-building helps keep all the different characters cohesive and tied to one another in a similar way, hence the League. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On September 06 2014 01:32 sung_moon wrote: Anyone understand how I just won promos for Silver 4-> 3, but I end up in Silver 2??? Your MMR was so high you skipped a division. Gratz. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 06 2014 01:32 sung_moon wrote: Anyone understand how I just won promos for Silver 4-> 3, but I end up in Silver 2??? Brag post is that way sir. | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
On the Lore thing, I'm kinda just meh about it I don't really care, I just want to play the games~ Actually, does Dota and HoN have lore in it as well? I haven't played them both enough to know about it (or looked it up) | ||
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4800 Posts
On September 06 2014 01:20 phyvo wrote: + Show Spoiler + This statement irks me in art discussions because while it is true that good/bad art can be highly subjective that does not mean that criticism against art is meaningless. At some point there are enough plot holes, stupid concepts, and poorly written narrative that a story goes from "meh" to "bad". That point will vary from person to person but it's there. If you give up on it then you can't say anything really interesting about art at all (IMO). The reason why you create a story for LoL is to help people attach themselves to characters that they then might then buy. A story behind a champion helps define who they are and helps make the visual and audio artwork you interact with in-game cohesive. Although many factors go into peoples' purchases it seems self-evident to me that boring characters will simply sell less, and characters with no story are, well, boring. After that, world-building helps keep all the different characters cohesive and tied to one another in a similar way, hence the League. ..and that's when he decided to join the League of Legends, to test his true powers. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
1. Summoners are basically all-powerful people who are mind controlling the champions for the fights 2. Having new champions added to the League without a tie-in to a faction is difficult 3. They can't fully explore the rest of Runeterra because everything is so League-focused in terms of politics If it were up to me, you could explain/fluff away most of those issues pretty quickly. You solve #1 by saying that all the champions are subject to a form of diplomatic immunity or parole (depending upon the champion) and in exchange they allow the summoner (ie., us) to use them on the Rift. As for them popping in/out all the time, you could just add a bit of fluff, saying that the Rift generates a magical copy of the champion that disappears when the match ends. Solving #2 is a bit more difficult, but you could probably solve #2 and #3 at the same time by doing a major lore event, saying that the League itself is dissolving, but the Rift portion and the magics associated with it are going to be used/spread around Runeterra, and if someone has a conflict they want to resolve and not have it cost thousands of lives, they can just go to "their local Rift location," declare their issue/case to the person/summoner in charge there, and solve the fight on the Rift. The bit with adding new champions you can just say that their fame, infamy, or personal reasons, is what allows them to become a champion for use on the Rift. This also lets them add the various map locations and game modes, saying that Dominion is in Shurima, Howling Abyss is Frejlord, and Twisted Treeline is Shadow Isles, with the main Rift itself being the base template. And if they add a new game mode or a new map, they can say, "hey, game mode X takes place in Y location, here's a bit of lore about the location and a list of champions who call that location home." | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On September 06 2014 05:23 krndandaman wrote: anyone else experiencing huge streaks in ranked? as soon as I hit my 'ceiling mmr' I go on a fat losing streak, then as soon as I hit an mmr low enough I start wrecking on a win streak back to where I was and rinse and repeat. it's been like this the past 3 days and I think I went on back and forth 6+win/loss streaks 5 times in a row to the same spot. is the mmr system supposed to be like this? I thought I would see more 1 win 1 loss once I hit my actual mmr Tbh that's just how truly random distributions work, they're always way streakier then you'd expect. Also if you take into account the innate streaky nature of ranked (if you lose too much it gets easier to win, win too much it gets easier to lose. + people go on tilt/play better some days) it seems almost expected behaviour. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On September 06 2014 01:32 sung_moon wrote: Anyone understand how I just won promos for Silver 4-> 3, but I end up in Silver 2??? What are you doing in Silver ?_? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 06 2014 05:23 krndandaman wrote: anyone else experiencing huge streaks in ranked? as soon as I hit my 'ceiling mmr' I go on a fat losing streak, then as soon as I hit an mmr low enough I start wrecking on a win streak back to where I was and rinse and repeat. it's been like this the past 3 days and I think I went on back and forth 6+win/loss streaks 5 times in a row to the same spot. is the mmr system supposed to be like this? I thought I would see more 1 win 1 loss once I hit my actual mmr I do sometimes. Its likely not matchmaking and instead psychological. At your actual MMR you should win about 50% of the time. But after winning that next game you will have an MMR higher than your true MMR. However you don't have a 100% loss probability you have more like 47%. If you win again you're now at 45% and so on and so forth assuming you don't get better. So if your real skill doesn't change we should see that win streaks beget loss streaks and loss streaks beget win streaks. Though most of the time these should be relatively small, 3-5 games at most, and decently uncommon (a 5 win streak very uncommon, a 3 win streak decently common). I pulled these numbers out of a hat, but you should get the idea. If two games played back to back are not correlated in individual player performance then the most common series will be win followed by loss or loss followed by win. But win win will most likely be followed by loss loss and win win win by loss loss loss. Since win, win win, isn't too uncommon(if actual numbers were 50%, 47%, 45%, then win, win win, would occur in about 10% of series that started at your base MMR) win, win, win, loss, loss, loss also won't be that uncommon. By playing a lot of games we will see lots of little streaks like this. However, people aren't perfect machines, and their play is likely correlated with the play in their previous game (especially if those are played one right after the other). That is to say that you have "good days" and "Bad days" or "you play better when you feel good and you play worse when you feel bad. Winning makes you feel good. Losing makes you feel bad". Because we don't know the psychological state of players this doesn't have any effect on the overall validity of the matchmaking system. However because psychological state adds another variable the expectation of a game after a win may no longer be a loss at your true MMR. And similarly the expectation of game after a loss may no longer be a win at your true MMR. This will increase the amount of streaks we will see. So what happens with a lot of players is that they're feeling good and playing good and so their real skill is a bit higher than their listed MMR. If we had the information about their psychological state we might expect them to win 70% of the time. They win and they continue to feel good and their win % is now 67%. This makes win streaks more likely. Possibly more likely than wins followed by losses. But eventually you do lose. And when you do your mood changes and the effect flips. Just as the positive psychological effect made win streaks more likely a negative psychological effect makes loss streaks more likely. And since we are most likely to get those stomping wins/losses at the top and bottom end of our MMR that is when we are most likely to see those shifts. So even if humans don't have any psychological effects running streaks should be common enough over enough games and the most common streaks we will see will be win streaks followed by loss streaks. And if humans have psychological effects (which I believe they do) this makes long streaks in both directions more common. But its not an issue with matchmaking in any sense. Its also why I suggest to people to stop playing after a loss, but keep playing after a win. If you want the highest MMR, not playing games in which you're at a psychological disadvantage will go a long way to doing that. While my data is anecdotal i will say its been worth anywhere from 2 to 10 divisions (so silver 3 to silver 1 or silver 3 to plat 3) in the handful of players i've seen try the advice (i have not seen anyone do worse with it) | ||
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AetherZucchini
Switzerland24 Posts
Some roles have a range of interesting itemization choices throughout the game. AP casters, for example get to make choices like Tear of the Goddess or Fiendish Codex early, and Zhonya’s or Deathcap later on. Other roles, however, have fewer interesting options available to them. Marksmen have generally followed very similar build paths to each other with low variance. As a result, we're trying to find ways to offer more distinct and appealing options, like the changes to Bloodthirster to better position it as a high end defensive AD item. In comparison, the old Bloodthirster - due to it having the highest AD in the game along with lifesteal - basically said, "Build this on every marksman that auto attacks or uses spells" (that is, all of them). Bringing the AP mid as a role having "deep meaningful choices" when Athene rush into ZH/VS/DC happens 95% of games at the very least would be hilarious enough. But wait, he can say something even smarter ! Apparently BT was mandatory on marksmen too (as opposed to, say, IE or LW ?). I wonder what were all those BotRK buyers thinking. I mean, BT was rarely first buy anyway after the BotRK introduction, except for that short time period with the BT/SS fast tower push. Marksmen actually have more choice in their early itemisation than AP mid, even if the item pool remains fairly small. I get that they are trying to somehow align their marketing and game design rhetorics, but come on. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On September 06 2014 07:20 AetherZucchini wrote: For those who might have missed it (Meddler's article): Some roles have a range of interesting itemization choices throughout the game. AP casters, for example get to make choices like Tear of the Goddess or Fiendish Codex early, and Zhonya’s or Deathcap later on. Other roles, however, have fewer interesting options available to them. Marksmen have generally followed very similar build paths to each other with low variance. As a result, we're trying to find ways to offer more distinct and appealing options, like the changes to Bloodthirster to better position it as a high end defensive AD item. In comparison, the old Bloodthirster - due to it having the highest AD in the game along with lifesteal - basically said, "Build this on every marksman that auto attacks or uses spells" (that is, all of them). Bringing the AP mid as a role having "deep meaningful choices" when Athene rush into ZH/VS/DC happens 95% of games at the very least would be hilarious enough. But wait, he can say something even smarter ! Apparently BT was mandatory on marksmen too (as opposed to, say, IE or LW ?). I wonder what were all those BotRK buyers thinking. I mean, BT was rarely first buy anyway after the BotRK introduction, except for that short time period with the BT/SS fast tower push. Marksmen actually have more choice in their early itemisation than AP mid, even if the item pool remains fairly small. I get that they are trying to somehow align their marketing and game design rhetorics, but come on. If you take that statement into the context of Bronze 2, it makes a lot of sense. I was playing on my friend's account (pls no ban rito) and got to witness glorious Rylai's Top Rammus and other shenanigans, whereas almost every AD (Fiora, Pantheon, Jarvan, Tryndamere) went BT first. Basically APs have a lot of base items that build into different trees and the trees are all equally "cool," regardless of how terrible the items actually are (Tear Annie), whereas ADs have BF Swords. | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
And he's crushing level 19s and other low ranked | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 06 2014 07:24 xes wrote: If you take that statement into the context of Bronze 2, it makes a lot of sense. I was playing on my friend's account (pls no ban rito) and got to witness glorious Rylai's Top Rammus and other shenanigans, whereas almost every AD (Fiora, Pantheon, Jarvan, Tryndamere) went BT first. Basically APs have a lot of base items that build into different trees and the trees are all equally "cool," regardless of how terrible the items actually are (Tear Annie), whereas ADs have BF Swords. AP's have the same equivalent for the most part. They just have support AP items as well. They have Codex path equivalent to Brutalizer/long sword paths (plus tiamat for melees) They have NLR path equivalent to the BF path (4 items for AD's, 3 for AP's) They have Wand path equivalent to the Pick path (rageblade, mallet, maw, whisper, zephyr) The reason that marksmen have low variance in their build is because the entire class does more or less one thing. Which is ranged auto attack DPS and there is more or less only one way to maximize that at specific item timings. You cannot really fix that without removing ranged AD as a concept. Otherwise yea they're all going to want IE, PD, LW, BT, and Scimitar. Or IE, PD, LW, BotRK, and defensive item. New items are added and either supersede the current itemization or fall by the wayside, because there isn't really a utility purchase for AD's that makes sense. Utility purchases on mages make sense since it allows you to do your burst and then use the intervening time to do something else (zhonya, rylai slow, etc etc). But you cannot do that on an auto attack carry champion because in order to be effective they need to spend their time auto attacking. If you make utility powerful enough to make up the difference you're back to square one again. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The real issue is that while AP casters choose to tailor their build to fit their playstyle (Karthus can be played glass cannon OR rush RoA), ADC's pretty much solely focus on AA damage, so they rarely care about any AD item that isn't just the biggest possible number. Blue Build Ezreal is the main exception I can think of. By contrast, AD casters can modify their build depending on whether they care about burst (Hydra), CDR (Brutalizer), mana (Essence Reaver), etc. | ||
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