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On August 31 2014 00:13 Prog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
[...] I just like tanky strong heroes [...] Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:08 padfoota wrote:
Why no love for Lux holy shit guys o.o
She sounds perfect for Torte hm...yeah...no. : D
Well before that comment he was stating his style was to roam and cast spells/cc people and help teammates. Lux is one of the easier champs to get into, great waveclear, great utilities and kamehameha to boot.
In my previous post about 2-3 page ago I also recommended Xerath, but stated that he should only try Xerath if hes confident with skill shots.
He likes Orianna. Sure, shes a great champ no problem. Definetely top tier. But shes not Caitlyn. Orianna is one of the hardest champs to master if you plan to carry hard with her. Ive had games where chinese players <D3 just plain fucking suck at her, even tho they are ridiculously good with any other high skill cap champs you can think of, and Ive had d3+ Oriannas absolutely wreck shit in every skirmish-teamfight. From that viewpoint, Im coming up with Lux, Syndra and Xerath
just from the top of my head based on my experience. No bias, plain viewpoint. I dont even main mid. But yeah I used to hate ziggs too.
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Ye, you posted at exactly the same time, i just found it a funny coincidence. 
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On August 31 2014 00:13 Capped wrote:I wouldnt worry too much guys, torte posts in 30 game threads a week claiming to be getting back into it, reinstalling etc, then 3 hours later he's in another thread :D + Show Spoiler +
Ha yeah, I just like playing a lot of games and its difficult to keep them all active. I figured I'd get into LoL because I'm not ready to play ranked in Dota 2.
Right now I'm learning to be better at:
CSGO
Dota 2
Grid: Autosports
I'm looking at AOE 2 since it has matchmaking now
LoL
I was playing Heroes of the Storm for an article and because of friends
I just got back into Civ V
I'm really unhappy that I haven't played GO in awhile
When I get frustrated in multiplayer, I just play some FFVIII (I'm up to Dollet Town again, Queen of Cards)
and when my friend wants to play, I get into BF4
And I'm still looking to finish LA Noire sometime in the future (I overdosed on it two weeks ago)
I'm out of a job and waiting on some follow-up interviews. They're all PST/EST usually so that means I get a lot of free time during the morning and really late at night after I finish my projects and job applications.
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On August 31 2014 00:15 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:13 Prog wrote:On August 31 2014 00:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
[...] I just like tanky strong heroes [...] On August 31 2014 00:08 padfoota wrote:
Why no love for Lux holy shit guys o.o
She sounds perfect for Torte hm...yeah...no. : D Well before that comment he was stating his style was to roam and cast spells/cc people and help teammates. Lux is one of the easier champs to get into, great waveclear, great utilities and kamehameha to boot. In my previous post about 2-3 page ago I also recommended Xerath, but stated that he should only try Xerath if hes confident with skill shots.
Sorry, I'm in-between. I deifnitely am interested in Lux. I find her ultimate so cool and her abilites are pretty versatile which is definitely strong.
I'll take a look at all the champions suggested and then I have to work on earning IP for them to buy them eventually; so it'll be awhile.
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On August 31 2014 00:19 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:15 padfoota wrote:On August 31 2014 00:13 Prog wrote:On August 31 2014 00:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
[...] I just like tanky strong heroes [...] On August 31 2014 00:08 padfoota wrote:
Why no love for Lux holy shit guys o.o
She sounds perfect for Torte hm...yeah...no. : D Well before that comment he was stating his style was to roam and cast spells/cc people and help teammates. Lux is one of the easier champs to get into, great waveclear, great utilities and kamehameha to boot. In my previous post about 2-3 page ago I also recommended Xerath, but stated that he should only try Xerath if hes confident with skill shots. Sorry, I'm in-between. I deifnitely am interested in Lux. I find her ultimate so cool and her abilites are pretty versatile which is definitely strong. I'll take a look at all the champions suggested and then I have to work on earning IP for them to buy them eventually; so it'll be awhile.
Ok so my final verdict - If you are just "picking up" the game, I dont really think Orianna would be the best champ. Shes great, definetely top tier, but I wouldnt recommend her unless you stated "I want to get good at this game"
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On August 31 2014 00:05 Alaric wrote:
Maokai is really, really good for what you like. His damage is rather good early on (he used to have better base damage, and in season 2 was played as a super-ganking/diving jungler), he has several cc and between his base stats and his new ult he's so hard to kill he has presence by default in the game. He isn't too reliant on levels, a bit more on farm because he needs some tankiness for his ult to work on (and some mana because his costs are still present).
Nautilus is close, but without the damage. The way is shield works, and his big hitbox, means he's got presence in the fights and good sturdiness once he hits his second item (he's typically played in the jungle, so he needs something with HP on top of spirit of the ancient golem), and his passive gives him a lot of cc.
On the other hand, he's very dependant on his teammates ("I keep you alive, you do the heavy lifting"), which means he works because very strong carries are popular atm, and he's still vulnerable in the jungle (far from the best too).
Supports like Thresh, Braum, Leona could suit you. Tanky, a lot of cc, great power at either initiating or counter-initiating, lots of play potential and teamfight presence. Leona and Thresh are better roamers than Braum though.
About when you make the enemy go back, standard is "shove the wave to tower and recall yourself", with a bit of experience you'll know how to shove the wave so that when you come back it's pushing toward you (makes it easier to zone the enemy and accrue your lead or force him to play risky, without overextending yourself, especially top).
Depending on cooldowns, HP/mana, time since last back (you come back, he all-ins you, you survive while healthy and he backs but you only have 200 gold, not necessarily worth it to back) you can also try to help your jungler if he wants to invade, or you can roam to other lanes to gank them (Orianna isn't the best for that, she'll usually farm wraiths instead). You can also make a call for dragon (depending on position of both junglers and state of the other lanes) but this requires more experience and depends if your team follows the call.
You can also use the absence of the enemy laner (if you're sure he's backed and isn't waiting for you in the fog of war instead) to go and ward deeper into enemy territory, to protect you and your team from roams and ganks.
Yeah, I think I will get Maokai, I was leaning towards him for awhile so he's definitely something I want.
I checked out Nautilus before and he was pretty ugly so I never got him. It's strange to make a judgment on that but I also didn't find him too interesting to play as.
I really like Thresh, he's a bit overpicked from what I see a lot, but I think his moves are pretty cool. Braum is similar and Leona as well.
What usually happens is my jungler wants to gank and then he just whiffs all his attempts and I'm sitting there. So does Orianna just farm until what item specifically?
On August 31 2014 00:22 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:19 Torte de Lini wrote:On August 31 2014 00:15 padfoota wrote:On August 31 2014 00:13 Prog wrote:On August 31 2014 00:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
[...] I just like tanky strong heroes [...] On August 31 2014 00:08 padfoota wrote:
Why no love for Lux holy shit guys o.o
She sounds perfect for Torte hm...yeah...no. : D Well before that comment he was stating his style was to roam and cast spells/cc people and help teammates. Lux is one of the easier champs to get into, great waveclear, great utilities and kamehameha to boot. In my previous post about 2-3 page ago I also recommended Xerath, but stated that he should only try Xerath if hes confident with skill shots. Sorry, I'm in-between. I deifnitely am interested in Lux. I find her ultimate so cool and her abilites are pretty versatile which is definitely strong. I'll take a look at all the champions suggested and then I have to work on earning IP for them to buy them eventually; so it'll be awhile. Ok so my final verdict - If you are just "picking up" the game, I dont really think Orianna would be the best champ. Shes great, definetely top tier, but I wouldnt recommend her unless you stated "I want to get good at this game"
Well she's just a character I'm very comfortable with. She's also among the few I have right now that I like. I'm not new to MOBAs or to LoL so to speak, just very very outdated.
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If you find a champ fun play it.This should be true for any player at any level lol.It doesn't matter if you wanna focus on this and get good or not.
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So I guess I should just drop Alistar, Zilean and Shen or...?
So far, the champions suggested that I like are:
- Thresh
- Lux
- Maokai
- J4/Darius (I love that ultimate!)
- Syndra (she looks a bit complicated)
Malphite I've played before and he's fun, though not as cool as Alistar. Kog'Maw, and Riven as well.
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On August 31 2014 00:22 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:05 Alaric wrote:
Maokai is really, really good for what you like. His damage is rather good early on (he used to have better base damage, and in season 2 was played as a super-ganking/diving jungler), he has several cc and between his base stats and his new ult he's so hard to kill he has presence by default in the game. He isn't too reliant on levels, a bit more on farm because he needs some tankiness for his ult to work on (and some mana because his costs are still present).
Nautilus is close, but without the damage. The way is shield works, and his big hitbox, means he's got presence in the fights and good sturdiness once he hits his second item (he's typically played in the jungle, so he needs something with HP on top of spirit of the ancient golem), and his passive gives him a lot of cc.
On the other hand, he's very dependant on his teammates ("I keep you alive, you do the heavy lifting"), which means he works because very strong carries are popular atm, and he's still vulnerable in the jungle (far from the best too).
Supports like Thresh, Braum, Leona could suit you. Tanky, a lot of cc, great power at either initiating or counter-initiating, lots of play potential and teamfight presence. Leona and Thresh are better roamers than Braum though.
About when you make the enemy go back, standard is "shove the wave to tower and recall yourself", with a bit of experience you'll know how to shove the wave so that when you come back it's pushing toward you (makes it easier to zone the enemy and accrue your lead or force him to play risky, without overextending yourself, especially top).
Depending on cooldowns, HP/mana, time since last back (you come back, he all-ins you, you survive while healthy and he backs but you only have 200 gold, not necessarily worth it to back) you can also try to help your jungler if he wants to invade, or you can roam to other lanes to gank them (Orianna isn't the best for that, she'll usually farm wraiths instead). You can also make a call for dragon (depending on position of both junglers and state of the other lanes) but this requires more experience and depends if your team follows the call.
You can also use the absence of the enemy laner (if you're sure he's backed and isn't waiting for you in the fog of war instead) to go and ward deeper into enemy territory, to protect you and your team from roams and ganks. Yeah, I think I will get Maokai, I was leaning towards him for awhile so he's definitely something I want. I checked out Nautilus before and he was pretty ugly so I never got him. It's strange to make a judgment on that but I also didn't find him too interesting to play as. I really like Thresh, he's a bit overpicked from what I see a lot, but I think his moves are pretty cool. Braum is similar and Leona as well. What usually happens is my jungler wants to gank and then he just whiffs all his attempts and I'm sitting there. So does Orianna just farm until what item specifically? Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:22 padfoota wrote:On August 31 2014 00:19 Torte de Lini wrote:On August 31 2014 00:15 padfoota wrote:On August 31 2014 00:13 Prog wrote:On August 31 2014 00:08 Torte de Lini wrote:
[...] I just like tanky strong heroes [...] On August 31 2014 00:08 padfoota wrote:
Why no love for Lux holy shit guys o.o
She sounds perfect for Torte hm...yeah...no. : D Well before that comment he was stating his style was to roam and cast spells/cc people and help teammates. Lux is one of the easier champs to get into, great waveclear, great utilities and kamehameha to boot. In my previous post about 2-3 page ago I also recommended Xerath, but stated that he should only try Xerath if hes confident with skill shots. Sorry, I'm in-between. I deifnitely am interested in Lux. I find her ultimate so cool and her abilites are pretty versatile which is definitely strong. I'll take a look at all the champions suggested and then I have to work on earning IP for them to buy them eventually; so it'll be awhile. Ok so my final verdict - If you are just "picking up" the game, I dont really think Orianna would be the best champ. Shes great, definetely top tier, but I wouldnt recommend her unless you stated "I want to get good at this game" Well she's just a character I'm very comfortable with. She's also among the few I have right now that I like. I'm not new to MOBAs or to LoL so to speak, just very very outdated.
Ok. Then stick with Orianna. Shes high maintenance and need to coordinate very well with junglers to have a gank work, but is still very rewarding when played well.
Core items used to be Athenes, Deathcap and Voidstaff as standard rush asap. Obviously with each item you have a "power spike" window you can abuse depending how early you reach these items.
After the nerf with Athenes, Ive seen a couple builds
Mana regen/CDR items recommendation - Chalice + Morellonomicon/ Tear of the Goddess (combinations, sell chalice later), Athenes (by itself)
Core damage items - Deathcap +/ Zhonyas, Voidstaff
Interesting picks - Spirit of Spectral Wraith rush asap, replacing as mana regen/cdr item - Great if you are farming hard and want to farm harder - farm your jungles wraiths and wolves too! This might be nerfed soon tho, but is gradually increasing in popularity with a lot of champs. Fiendish codex builds into a bunch of stuff too (Athenes, Morellos)
Haunting Guise - great if opponents arent building MR and you are doing fine.
On August 31 2014 00:35 Torte de Lini wrote:So I guess I should just drop Alistar, Zilean and Shen or...? So far, the champions suggested that I like are: - Thresh
- Lux
- Maokai
- J4/Darius (I love that ultimate!)
- Syndra (she looks a bit complicated)
Malphite I've played before and he's fun, though not as cool as Alistar. Kog'Maw, and Riven as well.
Zilean is fine. Hes definetely one of the more interesting champs that hover from pro play to troll pick. I suggest dropping Shen, but I cannot comment on Alistar as I have a bias against him (terrible in lower levels as support, completely outstripped by Leona/Thresh/Nami/Janna depending on what you need. Hes ok in certain situations tho, but requires decent teamwork to work well)
Syndra is hard. Requires decent game knowledge and calculation of damage, if any champ was flat OP when played well vs absolute shit when not its Syndra (maybe riven too). Shes definetely interesting tho
Fuck maokai. As an ADC main fuck maokai (hes good).
J4's always been iconic. no comment on Darius.
probuilds.net is a decent site just to check up on latest builds done by professional players.
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Going jungle item without a mana regen one on a mid laner is just straight up brain dead.
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On August 31 2014 00:40 nafta wrote:
Going jungle item without a mana regen one on a mid laner is just straight up brain dead.
Going jungle item means you are farming hard. This commitment means you are definitely getting homeguard early - farm waves farm jungle grab blue go home rinse repeat. Obviously if more gank centered playstyle you dont bother.
The fact is if you dont get Spirit of Spec Wrath super early and start stacking it fast its actually a waste.
if its not popular on westerns servers then ignore that part about the spirit of spec wrath and get the others.
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On August 31 2014 00:46 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:40 nafta wrote:
Going jungle item without a mana regen one on a mid laner is just straight up brain dead. Going jungle item means you are farming hard. This commitment means you are definitely getting homeguard early - farm waves farm jungle grab blue go home rinse repeat. Obviously if more gank centered playstyle you dont bother. The fact is if you dont get Spirit of Spec Wrath super early and start stacking it fast its actually a waste. if its not popular on westerns servers then ignore that part about the spirit of spec wrath and get the others.
So basically you waste gold on getting homeguard and an item that barely lets you clear wraiths/wolves without losing mana and you don't have any mana item.Lol.
There are people who do it.They just still get the mana items since you can't actually play most mages without them.Not to mention that you fuck your jungler so hard if you do this.
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probuilds is a great site but yes, its all situational. You want to get a feel of the game you just looked at by checking what he bought early on vs who. Its better to check multiple links at once and see what each player does when ahead/behind in x y z situation.
For example
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1511306187/21490433
Opponent was Ahri (Extremely potent AP assassin) so first buy was chalice for the extra MR + mana regen for trading + survival.
However, in http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1641798068/47257274
Opponent was Zed (Extremely potent AD assassin), Orianna did well this game and went Morellos (no need for MR from Athenes, wound passive from Morello better vs AD), and didnt go Zhonyas until a bit later (highly recommended item vs assassins, especially zed).
Lastly http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1645032937/47257274
Opponent was Yasuo + Jarvan (high kill potential AD combo) and Orianna was doing poorly this game, forced to go for tear (going for Archangels, which gives a strong shield, great in combo with Oriannas innate shield skill), and an early haunting guise (cost efficient early item to help trade + survive), and going for Morellos (CDR+ more Mana regen). Extremely poormans item choice, but he was behind. Somehow still won due to bot lane doing well.
On August 31 2014 00:53 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2014 00:46 padfoota wrote:On August 31 2014 00:40 nafta wrote:
Going jungle item without a mana regen one on a mid laner is just straight up brain dead. Going jungle item means you are farming hard. This commitment means you are definitely getting homeguard early - farm waves farm jungle grab blue go home rinse repeat. Obviously if more gank centered playstyle you dont bother. The fact is if you dont get Spirit of Spec Wrath super early and start stacking it fast its actually a waste. if its not popular on westerns servers then ignore that part about the spirit of spec wrath and get the others. So basically you waste gold on getting homeguard and an item that barely lets you clear wraiths/wolves without losing mana and you don't have any mana item.Lol. There are people who do it.They just still get the mana items since you can't actually play most mages without them.Not to mention that you fuck your jungler so hard if you do this.
Yeah i dont like going that item on mages too. It pigeonholes you into farming heavily instead of remaining versatile. I did mention earlier that I was listing out observations of current item builds, which is a quick glance at probuilds + personal experience on Chinese server. From what ive seen, if the player gets a mana regen item its either a chalice or tear (odd choice), morellos is almost never gotten because you get that item mostly vs AD mids, and you dont really go jungle item vs AD mid..but the general consensus is that if you want to get Spectral Wrath, you rush it fast. Early homeguards is/was pretty standard on mages tho, popularized by pre-nerf Leblanc era.
Either way Torte is mainly checking on probuilds which is a good thing
Im definitely not claiming to be super knowledgeable regarding midlanes since I main jungle/bot lane mostly, and my mid is triple dorans Xerath into DC/Zhona Void because I run into yasuo so much, which is probably an odd build by all mid standards since I dont bother getting mana regen item on xerath until I have a big damage item first.
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Depends for Orianna. Sometimes you want the jungler to initiate the fight and save your ult to bring the enemy back once he flashes or runs away. Sometimes if you're confident in your burst your start with your ult for the cc+follow-up damage.
With Rengar's ult (he gets a MS bonus, stealth (which will make his next autoattack leap on the enemy from range instead of being melee) which makes him very reliable at getting on someone) you just put the ball on him when he comes, free ult, and his burst will do the rest. Works a bit of the same with Nocturne, Vi, etc.
With someone like Lee Sin, ideally you want to start a fight (or even better, bait the enemy laner into starting a fight, especially if he has to blow a movement ability for it, like Fizz's E or Ahri's ult, which deprives them of their escape) and the jungler walks in from behind. It tends to make it easier to then land skillshots or your ult (for example Lee Sin wants to walk up to (or W to a ward/ally and hit you), slow you with his E, and hit you till you flash/dash away which is when he Qs you to stick to you and finish you off, not start the gank with his Q that can miss and botch the whole thing).
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For Orianna, Grail -> DCAP -> Zhonya/Void -> Void/Zhonya is probably the most cookie-cutter build that works.
Against AD mid laner, you can probably go for Zhonya before DCAP.
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On August 31 2014 02:18 Sufficiency wrote:
For Orianna, Grail -> DCAP -> Zhonya/Void -> Void/Zhonya is probably the most cookie-cutter build that works.
Against AD mid laner, you can probably go for Zhonya before DCAP.
You can also just build the Seeker's early and delay Zhonya's until its normal timing which is something I do when I know I just have to not feed/farm safely against a potent AD assassin.
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you don't really need early armguard unless you're really uncomfortable in the match up imo, team into morello is fine with a third item zhonya follow up
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On August 31 2014 02:41 Nos- wrote:
you don't really need early armguard unless you're really uncomfortable in the match up imo, team into morello is fine with a third item zhonya follow up
well I don't know all my mid lane matchups sooooooo 
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On August 31 2014 02:18 Sufficiency wrote:
For Orianna, Grail -> DCAP -> Zhonya/Void -> Void/Zhonya is probably the most cookie-cutter build that works.
Against AD mid laner, you can probably go for Zhonya before DCAP.
Thanks!
Also, I'm still losing but thankfully all my enemies build 0 defensive items.
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EPT
