EPT[Patch 4.15] Master Tier General Discussion - Page 26
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On August 30 2014 11:59 Ryuu314 wrote: The rework seems pretty cool. I'm assuming Soraka can heal herself with her new heal, cause there's no way she can sustain a 2 second, 0% cdr heal that hits her for 10% of max hp per cast with nothing but Starcall the way it's currently iterated. The new kit certainly seems more fun than walking fountain Soraka. I personally kinda liked Tanky AP Q spam Soraka, but it was definitely OP. Since the major cost of the heal is supposed to be your HP (as described by the rioter) I sincerely doubt that Soraka will heal herself. Not only would it possibly trivialize the HP cost but it also would create a weird dynamic where as your max HP increased your ability to sustain your heal on yourself could go from ezpz to actively hurting yourself when you try to heal. That's just bizarre. The whole reason why it's %maxHP in the first place is because Riot doesn't want the cost of the heal to ever be trivial. The whole reason why Q heals Soraka is because Riot wants to force you to interact with your enemy to earn your healing. If the numbers seem poorly tuned... well... this isn't even on the docket for the current PBE cycle. If you read the thread though a rioter did say that if you hit 2 champions with starcall that generally gave you a heal because it scales well. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On August 30 2014 12:55 Ryuu314 wrote: sometimes the official website won't load properly. just refresh. I tried it, still the same. I'm collecting bits and pieces about raka's and vik's rework from the responses but would b better if I could read what the discussion is about, haha. http://i57.tinypic.com/wmfcrs.png | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On August 30 2014 13:14 Ryuu314 wrote: Jayce gets played with some regularity in OGN. They still go for Muramana. It's typically something like Bruta->Muramana then LW/IE/BC/BT depending on the game. LW is almost always picked up quite early tho. Thanks. First time playing as Jayce, and I knew generally what he could do when he was super OP always picked each game, but actually playing him and doing it in the correct sequence is a bit more challenging. Like, in the ideal situation in lane, I imagine doing something like: Gate -> Blast -> Form swap -> Q->W->E->Form swap -> W/Q? Also get confused with cooldowns when swapping forms, which kind of baited me in quite a bit. Never ever played Elise/Nidalee before. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On August 30 2014 15:08 Kinie wrote: In a general sense, were any of the CLG vs. DIG games worth watching? I already know the result, not trying to drag that discussion into here just yet, but were the games themselves good (heck, even decent) on both sides, or was it a case of NA being NA? Game 3 is worth watching + Show Spoiler + just because of the incredibly stupid throws from CLG | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I feel bad for Seraph; he got Nidalee, did the split push well, and then bot lane just fed infinite kills to Trist and Ziggs. Honestly Dlift looked to be going on tilt mid game, probably going full tilt with the first attempt at the bot inhib turret fiasco. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 30 2014 14:20 phyvo wrote: Since the major cost of the heal is supposed to be your HP (as described by the rioter) I sincerely doubt that Soraka will heal herself. Not only would it possibly trivialize the HP cost but it also would create a weird dynamic where as your max HP increased your ability to sustain your heal on yourself could go from ezpz to actively hurting yourself when you try to heal. That's just bizarre. The whole reason why it's %maxHP in the first place is because Riot doesn't want the cost of the heal to ever be trivial. The whole reason why Q heals Soraka is because Riot wants to force you to interact with your enemy to earn your healing. If the numbers seem poorly tuned... well... this isn't even on the docket for the current PBE cycle. If you read the thread though a rioter did say that if you hit 2 champions with starcall that generally gave you a heal because it scales well. The templating of the ability seems to suggest it can self-target. If you look at Soraka's current E, it has to specifically spell out it cant' self-target and uses the same "target ally" keywords. Other reasons why I think it can self-heal is because 1. The heal still cost a non-trivial amount of mana. At 2 second cd before CDR, that spell is going to drain you of mana really fucking fast. It's like 30 mana per cast at level 1; don't know if it scales, but with a 1.2 second cooldown your mana will disappear fast. Healing yourself will drain you really fast. Plus, the % health cost will really cut down on how much the net heal is really going to be. 2. Starcall has a pretty long cooldown relative to her new W and the self-heal aspect of it seems to be pretty small. According to the screenshot, it's only 20~40 hp depending on missing health at level 1. That's not going to even begin to cover her health usage. Assuming max cdr and that Starcall cd doesn't scale, you'll get 1 starcall off for every 5~6 casts of heal. So you basically only get to use your heal 12~13 times before you're out of hp and that's assuming you hit your starcalls. On August 30 2014 17:54 Kinie wrote: Saw game 3 of the CLG vs. Dig game, and yeah, it is worth a watch. + Show Spoiler + I feel bad for Seraph; he got Nidalee, did the split push well, and then bot lane just fed infinite kills to Trist and Ziggs. Honestly Dlift looked to be going on tilt mid game, probably going full tilt with the first attempt at the bot inhib turret fiasco. + Show Spoiler + CLG 100% should've won that game. I have absolutely no fucking clue what they were doing having Link splitpush mid solo or top with Seraph. Nidalee can splitpush solo; that's what she does. Plus Seraph was pretty damn fat that game. If Link was with Double/Dexter/Aphro, CLG would've been able to brute force down the T3 bot turret with ease since if Dig has to catch one out of position and burst them down. CLG was pretty damn far ahead so a straight up 4v4 would be a CLG victory every time assuming no one gets caught. If Link was there with his ult, there was practically no way Dig could've protected their last T3 since Zilean would completely negate any potential catch by Dig. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Amusing that they straight-up state that Amumu is dead (his first lores avoided the term) but that they're trying to be ambiguous about child or Yordle now. Skarner retconned to be from Shurima. Makes sense I guess, rather than have an entire species tied to him and stuff. But on the other hand that's more stuff removed from Kalamanda. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
 On August 30 2014 10:22 Torte de Lini wrote: What are the three best Champions to get started in LoL? I have a few but I find myself getting absolutely destroyed by champions that can spam spells to harass like Brand or LeBlanc. I like Alistar, Shen and Oriana but my friend said Shen sucks. I'm already level 30 and such so I'm not exactly playing with first-timers. Shen's fine, it's just he isn't as much of a one-man army that'll kill everyone in his path as others, and as a tank he's not as disruptive as others like Alistar and Maokai. He's a very good splitpusher by virtue of his ult and he's really hard to kill 1v1 once he gets items though. Orianna is actually much stronger than Brand if you can get better with her (Brand was the champion released before Orianna, and after she came out he went from popular to pretty much phased-out ), his pillar outranges you but it's on a longer cooldown and it also uses up his mana faster. If you position the ball between minions and him and use it to zone him it'll be easier to see his harass coming and react in time. She also pushes for less mana in general so once he's depleted you're ahead, and you have more utility (and survivability) in later teamfights.His E (and the passive) is good harass at early levels and has as much range as your autoattacks so he can punish you last-hitting, but it has less range than the ball so if you keep it between you he'll have to take damage to get in range to hit you. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
On August 30 2014 21:22 Alaric wrote: Yeah, this is it. So I'll answer your post here. Shen's fine, it's just he isn't as much of a one-man army that'll kill everyone in his path as others, and as a tank he's not as disruptive as others like Alistar and Maokai. He's a very good splitpusher by virtue of his ult and he's really hard to kill 1v1 once he gets items though. Orianna is actually much stronger than Brand if you can get better with her (Brand was the champion released before Orianna, and after she came out he went from popular to pretty much phased-out ), his pillar outranges you but it's on a longer cooldown and it also uses up his mana faster. If you position the ball between minions and him and use it to zone him it'll be easier to see his harass coming and react in time. She also pushes for less mana in general so once he's depleted you're ahead, and you have more utility (and survivability) in later teamfights.His E (and the passive) is good harass at early levels and has as much range as your autoattacks so he can punish you last-hitting, but it has less range than the ball so if you keep it between you he'll have to take damage to get in range to hit you. I picked up Sivir when I started the game. Good reaction speed plus mechanics from other games (sc2, dota) made her a really nice early pick up. Cheap and easy, fun to learn, decent burst, can easily carry or play a more support carry role. Good teamplayer, decent kiter, decent survivor. Since her E forces you to learn other champs abilities you also learn how other champs play to some extent. I found her quite fun. Always play her every once in a while through all her patches. She can easily do all three lanes no problem. AP I would probably say lux. Lots of basic mechanics to pick up from her, plus shes easy to play, long range, and quite safe. Can play mid and support. Ori's not bad but shes ridiculously hard to straight pick up and can tilt the game balance either way extremely fast. Brand is a decent low level champ too, but I would still probably go for lux. An interesting pick would be Xerath if you are super confident with skill shots. Top lane you want a champ with no mana resource. Easiest pick would be Garen, ridiculously hard but interesting pick would be Riven (you want to be able to counterplay every matchup to do well on her...you want a challenge A_A?) Old Renekton probably has seen better days but hes still a decent pick. Shen is a bad pick to start learning since he absolutely needs to NOT fuck up his ulti to stay decent, and you are still learning top lane...not that easy. Vladimir is an interesting pick for a first learner but hes also seen better days. Common low level pick would be Tryndamere. Not a top lane main so take what I say with a lot of salt... Jungle I would either go Amumu or Nautilus - tanky, decent ganks, decent clear, decent CCs, easy to pick up. Wouldnt say no to Lee Sin if you feel up to it. (Never liked him but since hes everywhere in China...). Definetely wouldnt say no to Xin Zhao - decent ganks, decent sustain in jungle, decent clear. Can carry, but can also fuck up the game single handily..and since we are recommending Xin Zhao, Jarvan needs to be mentioned too. Hes a lot harder to play well after his patches, but hes still great. He also happens to be quite decent as top/mid. Support is great if you are duoing. Leona, thresh, nami, in that order. Hard champs but rewarding. Plus you can always just stay put and play defensive with them. Not going to comment on Sona Janna Braum since I didnt even to buy them. ADC Sivir and Caitlyn. Gave my reasons for Sivir above, Cailtyn pretty much has everything you want on ADC without counting ultimates. Range, orb walk, escape spell, lots of tactical play, decent wave clear, decent but basic itemization choices. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
As adc Miss Fortune is really easy and straightforward to play. She is also strong during all parts of the game. In mid the obvious starter hero is Annie, but she isnt really meta and pretty boring to play imo. Orianna is usually very high on the list of best designed champions in the game and for most people a lot of fun to play. With the recent nerf csing isnt that easy anymore, but she still is really strong. Your best bet is to just try some of the free heroes to play and see whats fun for you and then stick with the 2-3 heroes you really enjoy to play. On another note. I think you really should start smartcasting from the getgo if you arent allready. Ofc people will tell you it isnt needed and that Froggen is a prime example for it, but it really is easier in the long run and some champs are just not playable without smartcast. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On August 30 2014 21:22 Alaric wrote: Yeah, this is it. So I'll answer your post here. Shen's fine, it's just he isn't as much of a one-man army that'll kill everyone in his path as others, and as a tank he's not as disruptive as others like Alistar and Maokai. He's a very good splitpusher by virtue of his ult and he's really hard to kill 1v1 once he gets items though. Orianna is actually much stronger than Brand if you can get better with her (Brand was the champion released before Orianna, and after she came out he went from popular to pretty much phased-out ), his pillar outranges you but it's on a longer cooldown and it also uses up his mana faster. If you position the ball between minions and him and use it to zone him it'll be easier to see his harass coming and react in time. She also pushes for less mana in general so once he's depleted you're ahead, and you have more utility (and survivability) in later teamfights.His E (and the passive) is good harass at early levels and has as much range as your autoattacks so he can punish you last-hitting, but it has less range than the ball so if you keep it between you he'll have to take damage to get in range to hit you. I was thinking of making Maokai my third. Basically I want to have three champs in different roles: one top, mid and then support. I don't like playing ADC on any level as I find them really dull and boring (and I'm not ready to tackle jungling yet). When I was playing Akali had just come out so I really enjoyed Shen a lot because of his ultimate and his E. As long as he can still do those, I'll still play him! I have trouble believing how strong Oriana is. Towards the late-game, her ultimate + W is insane but throughout the rest of the game I feel like complete crap and everyone completely trounces me. What usually happens is that I wear them down in lane and then they'll go heal, come back and completely destroy me despite my small lead. With Brand and even Zed, they have these AOE/projectiles that come at you so far I don't know how anyone can dodge them. I use auto-attack to last hit and the ball to just harass them with never using W. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
edit: It sounds like your concept of back timings is off. I had the same issue when I started playing league at first. Your lead is irrelevant if they backed before you had a chance to get items off it. Just because you force them out of lane it doesn't mean you can do it again until you go buy yourself. I tell this to all noobs, back constantly at first then gradually learn when you can not back. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Althought since they took 6 AD from her base in 4.13 and made her by far the lowest AD champ in the game (even Karthus has more wtf) I'm not sure if it's actually worth it anymore... | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
He has these handful of very hard match ups, a huge requirement on game knowledge (when to ult, who can stop your ult) and map awareness (spot when to ult), and he often needs to splitpush (not the easiest thing to do) | ||
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