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[Patch 4.12] RIP Lucian General Discussion - Page 23

Forum Index > LoL General
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wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 19 2014 02:57 GMT
#441
With evolution of LoL, and how strong the scene has gotten, I wonder how the game would look like if they just brought back the game back to early Season 2 era of patch.
liftlift > tsm
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
July 19 2014 02:57 GMT
#442
On July 19 2014 09:26 Ryuu314 wrote:
Would you rather Riot change things slowly and take their time on reworks or have them rush everything and potentially release something completely broken?


Why can't it be both?
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 03:00:03
July 19 2014 02:59 GMT
#443
On July 18 2014 16:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Okay, I'm pretty fucking sure Riot made doombots mode to teach people how to split push effectively.

I think splitpushing is still a bad strat in yoloqueue if behind due to tp cd and the small size of the map.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 03:23:36
July 19 2014 03:16 GMT
#444
On July 19 2014 10:59 PrinceXizor wrote:
Pretty sure thatthe bug with homeguard Sorcs giving 30 Mpen happened at some point in the past too, i remember reading it on TL. the game is so weirdly coded. on PBE they tried a timer system like the camps for summoners and zhonya's ended up having no cooldown as a result. They really need to just stop updating the game for a year and recode everything so its designed to be expanded upon, instead of everything being put in piecemeal like it is now and causing these random bugs over and over.

Reading all your criticisms of Riot can be rather tiring at times. Not sure if it's hyperbole or just naivety to suggest that Riot should stop the game and recode everything but I suggest you read this article.

Riot does a lot wrong but also plenty of right. They certainly aren't the best but I do think they have the right intentions, etc.

If you're going to be critical of anything, I strongly believe that 1) you know what you're talking about (in this case, you code or at the very, very least, you've taken a CS course in high school or uni, and 2) you should have a better suggestion. 2 isn't mandatory but 1 seems necessary otherwise you're really just running your mouth on something you don't know much about.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 03:29:05
July 19 2014 03:24 GMT
#445
On July 19 2014 11:59 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 16:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Okay, I'm pretty fucking sure Riot made doombots mode to teach people how to split push effectively.

I think splitpushing is still a bad strat in yoloqueue if behind due to tp cd and the small size of the map.

splitpushing done right is the best way to solo carry in yolo queue imo.

yeah, i don't think a recode of lol is going to realistically happen until Riot wants to release LoL 2.
liftlift > tsm
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 03:31:22
July 19 2014 03:27 GMT
#446
On July 19 2014 12:16 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 10:59 PrinceXizor wrote:
Pretty sure thatthe bug with homeguard Sorcs giving 30 Mpen happened at some point in the past too, i remember reading it on TL. the game is so weirdly coded. on PBE they tried a timer system like the camps for summoners and zhonya's ended up having no cooldown as a result. They really need to just stop updating the game for a year and recode everything so its designed to be expanded upon, instead of everything being put in piecemeal like it is now and causing these random bugs over and over.

Reading all your criticisms of Riot can be rather tiring at times. Not sure if it's hyperbole or just naivety to suggest that Riot should stop the game and recode everything but I suggest you read this article.

Riot does a lot wrong but also plenty of right. They certainly aren't the best but I do think they have the right intentions, etc.

If you're going to be critical of anything, I strongly believe that 1) you know what you're talking about (in this case, you code or at the very, very least, you've taken a CS course in high school or uni, and 2) you should have a better suggestion. 2 isn't mandatory but 1 seems necessary otherwise you're really just running your mouth on something you don't know much about.

the road to hell neo. of course starting from scratch is bad there is no way to be certain of everything that has been done over the years and to be sure to include them in a new code. but sifting through your code and trying to have it actually function without breaking itself, is not a bad idea. recoding something when you have everything in front of you, isn't starting from scratch, its looking through the code intently and trying to see what is causing all the unintended interactions and finding ways to prevent it. You misunderstood what i was saying. Waiting for the problems to pop up to try to fix them is chasing a ghost. and will only result in a potential Big One. That's no good. there is only so much shoelace and chewing gum to go around.

i don't criticize riot just for the sake of it. but they have plenty to criticize. they've done things well in the past and i've given them credit for it. but seeing the same bug pop up twice now. they clearly aren't even finding the source of the bugs as much as hotfixing them so the bugs don't show.

I don't know how some people can be so adamant in defense of riot because "oh they mean well". at some point it begins to sound like a parent ignoring the trouble their child is causing out of love.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 19 2014 03:29 GMT
#447
On July 19 2014 12:16 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 10:59 PrinceXizor wrote:
Pretty sure thatthe bug with homeguard Sorcs giving 30 Mpen happened at some point in the past too, i remember reading it on TL. the game is so weirdly coded. on PBE they tried a timer system like the camps for summoners and zhonya's ended up having no cooldown as a result. They really need to just stop updating the game for a year and recode everything so its designed to be expanded upon, instead of everything being put in piecemeal like it is now and causing these random bugs over and over.

Reading all your criticisms of Riot can be rather tiring at times. Not sure if it's hyperbole or just naivety to suggest that Riot should stop the game and recode everything but I suggest you read this article.

Riot does a lot wrong but also plenty of right. They certainly aren't the best but I do think they have the right intentions, etc.

If you're going to be critical of anything, I strongly believe that 1) you know what you're talking about (in this case, you code or at the very, very least, you've taken a CS course in high school or uni, and 2) you should have a better suggestion. 2 isn't mandatory but 1 seems necessary otherwise you're really just running your mouth on something you don't know much about.


Or Maddox, who went from getting 3-5 million hits per article down to the mid 6 figures because he just stopped updating his site.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
July 19 2014 03:44 GMT
#448
On July 19 2014 12:27 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 12:16 NeoIllusions wrote:
On July 19 2014 10:59 PrinceXizor wrote:
Pretty sure thatthe bug with homeguard Sorcs giving 30 Mpen happened at some point in the past too, i remember reading it on TL. the game is so weirdly coded. on PBE they tried a timer system like the camps for summoners and zhonya's ended up having no cooldown as a result. They really need to just stop updating the game for a year and recode everything so its designed to be expanded upon, instead of everything being put in piecemeal like it is now and causing these random bugs over and over.

Reading all your criticisms of Riot can be rather tiring at times. Not sure if it's hyperbole or just naivety to suggest that Riot should stop the game and recode everything but I suggest you read this article.

Riot does a lot wrong but also plenty of right. They certainly aren't the best but I do think they have the right intentions, etc.

If you're going to be critical of anything, I strongly believe that 1) you know what you're talking about (in this case, you code or at the very, very least, you've taken a CS course in high school or uni, and 2) you should have a better suggestion. 2 isn't mandatory but 1 seems necessary otherwise you're really just running your mouth on something you don't know much about.

the road to hell neo. of course starting from scratch is bad there is no way to be certain of everything that has been done over the years and to be sure to include them in a new code. but sifting through your code and trying to have it actually function without breaking itself, is not a bad idea. recoding something when you have everything in front of you, isn't starting from scratch, its looking through the code intently and trying to see what is causing all the unintended interactions and finding ways to prevent it. You misunderstood what i was saying. Waiting for the problems to pop up to try to fix them is chasing a ghost. and will only result in a potential Big One. That's no good. there is only so much shoelace and chewing gum to go around.

i don't criticize riot just for the sake of it. but they have plenty to criticize. they've done things well in the past and i've given them credit for it. but seeing the same bug pop up twice now. they clearly aren't even finding the source of the bugs as much as hotfixing them so the bugs don't show.

I don't know how some people can be so adamant in defense of riot because "oh they mean well". at some point it begins to sound like a parent ignoring the trouble their child is causing out of love
.

For the first paragraph, I'm ok with disagreeing with you. I don't code for a living so I rather not delve into that discussion with you but from what know about the way you post, you have a tendency to exaggerate.

As for the bolded part, humor me a find me a critical post by you that actually praises Riot for anything they've done. From sifting through your past 500 posts, I've found posts where you've insinuated Riot balances champions based on their bottom line to claiming they're all about sound bites.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 03:47:13
July 19 2014 03:46 GMT
#449
On July 19 2014 12:27 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 12:16 NeoIllusions wrote:
On July 19 2014 10:59 PrinceXizor wrote:
Pretty sure thatthe bug with homeguard Sorcs giving 30 Mpen happened at some point in the past too, i remember reading it on TL. the game is so weirdly coded. on PBE they tried a timer system like the camps for summoners and zhonya's ended up having no cooldown as a result. They really need to just stop updating the game for a year and recode everything so its designed to be expanded upon, instead of everything being put in piecemeal like it is now and causing these random bugs over and over.

Reading all your criticisms of Riot can be rather tiring at times. Not sure if it's hyperbole or just naivety to suggest that Riot should stop the game and recode everything but I suggest you read this article.

Riot does a lot wrong but also plenty of right. They certainly aren't the best but I do think they have the right intentions, etc.

If you're going to be critical of anything, I strongly believe that 1) you know what you're talking about (in this case, you code or at the very, very least, you've taken a CS course in high school or uni, and 2) you should have a better suggestion. 2 isn't mandatory but 1 seems necessary otherwise you're really just running your mouth on something you don't know much about.

the road to hell neo. of course starting from scratch is bad there is no way to be certain of everything that has been done over the years and to be sure to include them in a new code. but sifting through your code and trying to have it actually function without breaking itself, is not a bad idea. recoding something when you have everything in front of you, isn't starting from scratch, its looking through the code intently and trying to see what is causing all the unintended interactions and finding ways to prevent it. You misunderstood what i was saying. Waiting for the problems to pop up to try to fix them is chasing a ghost. and will only result in a potential Big One. That's no good. there is only so much shoelace and chewing gum to go around.

i don't criticize riot just for the sake of it. but they have plenty to criticize. they've done things well in the past and i've given them credit for it. but seeing the same bug pop up twice now. they clearly aren't even finding the source of the bugs as much as hotfixing them so the bugs don't show.

I don't know how some people can be so adamant in defense of riot because "oh they mean well". at some point it begins to sound like a parent ignoring the trouble their child is causing out of love.

Did you miss the big, bold "It’s harder to read code than to write it." a quarter of the way down the article and the near dozen paragraphs following it, or did you just not even read the article at all?
AsianEcksDragon
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1036 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 04:01:51
July 19 2014 04:01 GMT
#450
Doom bots were really disappointing. Sure they can easily win teamfights but I've won every game just by avoiding fight, split pushing, and proxy pushing the lanes that they group up in. They would not tank tower for some reason so once you deny them the wave, their push ends.
神は乗り越えられる試練しか与えない
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
July 19 2014 04:02 GMT
#451
The servers just blew up for me, it keeps dodging queues
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
July 19 2014 04:13 GMT
#452
On July 19 2014 12:44 NeoIllusions wrote:
As for the bolded part, humor me a find me a critical post by you that actually praises Riot for anything they've done. From sifting through your past 500 posts, I've found posts where you've insinuated Riot balances champions based on their bottom line to claiming they're all about sound bites.

The first link was referencing a comment made by the lead designer of riot Here. so its a bit unfair to read anything else into it.
The second is a rather fair observation based on the past two years of what riot communicates publicly compared to what they do. i was hardly the only person to make that sort of statement either.

As for complementing riot, Besides Praising them for their work on garen. I also complemented them on The designs of three other champions that I think they did a good job on designing the kit of here.

hasn't been too much else to praise them for though, as we don't know how they are picking the groups for worlds yet so i can't praise them on sorting that out better than last year until we get that info. their recent changes have been going far from their intended results, and the public comments have been very PR-y and not really informative at all so there is nothing to praise except good job PR department. There haven't been major changes to the game yet for me to reassess the direction they are taking the game, and since braum, a champion i already said riot did a good job with, there has not been a new one released.

maybe uh, the rumor that the next event thing is about shurima is good because shurima has been involved with the best lore so far? meh.
Amarok
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia2003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 04:21:56
July 19 2014 04:21 GMT
#453
On July 19 2014 13:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 12:44 NeoIllusions wrote:
As for the bolded part, humor me a find me a critical post by you that actually praises Riot for anything they've done. From sifting through your past 500 posts, I've found posts where you've insinuated Riot balances champions based on their bottom line to claiming they're all about sound bites.

The first link was referencing a comment made by the lead designer of riot Here. so its a bit unfair to read anything else into it.
The second is a rather fair observation based on the past two years of what riot communicates publicly compared to what they do. i was hardly the only person to make that sort of statement either.

As for complementing riot, Besides Praising them for their work on garen. I also complemented them on The designs of three other champions that I think they did a good job on designing the kit of here.

hasn't been too much else to praise them for though, as we don't know how they are picking the groups for worlds yet so i can't praise them on sorting that out better than last year until we get that info. their recent changes have been going far from their intended results, and the public comments have been very PR-y and not really informative at all so there is nothing to praise except good job PR department. There haven't been major changes to the game yet for me to reassess the direction they are taking the game, and since braum, a champion i already said riot did a good job with, there has not been a new one released.

maybe uh, the rumor that the next event thing is about shurima is good because shurima has been involved with the best lore so far? meh.


If Riot does next to nothing worth praising then why are you here?
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-19 04:25:54
July 19 2014 04:25 GMT
#454
On July 19 2014 13:21 Amarok wrote:

If Riot does next to nothing worth praising then why are you here?

The thread isn't here to just have TLers sit around and talk about how great riot is. Its a bit silly to think that only people who love everything riot does should post. There would hardly be anyone here, and the conversation would be super boring.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
July 19 2014 04:26 GMT
#455
The only place I know of that writes bug free code is NASA. Everywhere else fixes it with fast patch cycles and strong beta testing.

Because no one actually plays on PBE (in the sense that they play on live, they're just there to dick around; compared to be on the dev release of new android where you actually just swithc over to it and use it) I'm sure that's why half the stuff doesn't work.

Old bugs that pop up are also notoriously difficult to fix if they are from an issue buried deep within years of code that probably started out as a very rushed job. Since Riot was founded by some money execs, they probably did not implement the best practices to start, so even though I'm sure they're buying into all of the Agile Data Scrum Paired Rapid Proto Development Science there will be deep problems that take forever to fix.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 19 2014 04:40 GMT
#456
On July 19 2014 13:26 xes wrote:
The only place I know of that writes bug free code is NASA. Everywhere else fixes it with fast patch cycles and strong beta testing.

Because no one actually plays on PBE (in the sense that they play on live, they're just there to dick around; compared to be on the dev release of new android where you actually just swithc over to it and use it) I'm sure that's why half the stuff doesn't work.

Old bugs that pop up are also notoriously difficult to fix if they are from an issue buried deep within years of code that probably started out as a very rushed job. Since Riot was founded by some money execs, they probably did not implement the best practices to start, so even though I'm sure they're buying into all of the Agile Data Scrum Paired Rapid Proto Development Science there will be deep problems that take forever to fix.

Isn't NASA also running hardware from like 30 years ago too, cuz new hardware is too unstable?
liftlift > tsm
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 19 2014 04:42 GMT
#457
On July 19 2014 13:01 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
Doom bots were really disappointing. Sure they can easily win teamfights but I've won every game just by avoiding fight, split pushing, and proxy pushing the lanes that they group up in. They would not tank tower for some reason so once you deny them the wave, their push ends.

For me, doom bots suffer from the classic ai issue in that they must cheat, and cheat badly to win. My first game I played vayne and dodged all skill shots, bit still due to doom veigar because, targeted spells. Plus, over that, it's really all about having non bronze teammates instead of being actually competent.

Imo the mode would be better if it was like the old modes that were PvP with cool mods. I'd love to be able to play doom ez, or lux once in a while, but bots are really only there for fwotd if I'm tired.
Freeeeeeedom
FYRE
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
New Zealand314 Posts
July 19 2014 04:45 GMT
#458
why is this called rip lucian patch? he's become a must ban LOL
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 19 2014 04:45 GMT
#459
I won with a level 25 guy on my team. It just took like 50 minutes.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
July 19 2014 04:55 GMT
#460
I don't see why they can't make a doom vayne bot and just put the AI from one of those vayne hacks into place. That shit would be legitimately hard LOL.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
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