EPT[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 60
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 12 2014 02:37 Slusher wrote: Scarra says if he could be a player he would still be a player but he accepts that Shiphter is the better fit for Dig and he wants to help in any way he can. (this was actually just yesterday he said this) Ah k that's pretty cool. Really like what he's done with Dig with all the support staff. Just wish he/they decided to do this sooner. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 12 2014 02:37 Slusher wrote: Scarra says if he could be a player he would still be a player but he accepts that Shiphter is the better fit for Dig and he wants to help in any way he can. (this was actually just yesterday he said this) I would say that too regardless of my intentions. His contract is over soon and he needs to negotiate for S5. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
so yea I wouldn't be surprised to see him pop up on a new team as a starter at some point, I mean if they go to 10 teams he's probly one of the better options at that point. | ||
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
On July 12 2014 02:33 Numy wrote: I think the biggest issue is if it makes teams even less likely to do roster changes if they are mid-bottom in the log. It took Dig 3 splits AND Coast getting eliminated before they finally decided that their potential loss from removing Scarra was outweighed by the massive skill increase of Shiphtur. If 10 team LCS makes teams even less likely to change if a player is popular then it'll hurt the scene pretty bad. Actually don't even know if Dig wanted to remove Scarra or Scarra decided to take a step back. Does anyone know? i've watched his stream a lot, basically he says dig wanted shiphtur on the team, and scarra agreed and stepped down to a supportive role. so it's like a mutual breakup edit-and yeah with that, numy is just making stuff up, NA treats their players with permanency and loyalty, whereas in korea...if faker starts becoming an issue he's getting dropped. i'd be willing to be they would've kept scarra as a starter if he chose to stay with the team until his contract was up. Overall i think having 10 teams will give more great players a chance to group up and make teams. if we just go ahead and say pro teams will be all challenger tier that means instead of 12.5% of players being "pro" it'll be 25% which is a pretty giant raise for people challenger tier or diamond 1 trying to be challenger. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Plus you won't have stuff like "well back when I was on Dig, this is how we did X". | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 12 2014 00:01 ticklishmusic wrote: There are a lot of solutions to fixing Galio, most of which revolve around fixing how tenacity affects his ult. 1. Make his ult duration longer (downside: champs who don't build tenacity get wrecked, but then there's the incentive to pick champs or itemize around it) 2. Attach "% tenacity ignored" to his ult, increasing each level of his ult 3. Give Galio scaling tenacity reduction on his passive. It would also affect the slow from his Q (and red buff/ crystal rod/other item slows) How to make Galio ult good Have it ignore 0/1/2 CC as you level it up problem solved imo. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:35 ticklishmusic wrote: IDK, I feel that a lot of the older pros like Scarra don't bring much more value to a new team than some high challenger. Far as skill goes there probably isn't a significant difference and since it's a 4+1 scenario integration presents approximately the same challenge. Plus you won't have stuff like "well back when I was on Dig, this is how we did X". What a load of crap.Yea this person who has been playing for years under pressure and is pretty similar in skill certainly can't do anything to help a bunch of kids handle their nerves in a lan tournament. | ||
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:40 arb wrote: How to make Galio ult good Have it ignore 0/1/2 CC as you level it up problem solved imo. thought this as well, would be awesome. On July 12 2014 03:42 nafta wrote: What a load of crap.Yea this person who has been playing for years under pressure and is pretty similar in skill certainly can't do anything to help a bunch of kids handle their nerves in a lan tournament. scarra is a lower tier NA mid, bottom line, he can still wreck people but there is no way to deny he can't hold his own against almost any mid out there now | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:42 nafta wrote: What a load of crap.Yea this person who has been playing for years under pressure and is pretty similar in skill certainly can't do anything to help a bunch of kids handle their nerves in a lan tournament. nerves are vastly overblown as a reason for losing | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:49 ticklishmusic wrote: nerves are vastly overblown as a reason for losing Lol ok.Clearly that is why even pro teams with years of experience play better in scrims than on stage  .Having someone like scarra on a new team would make a HUGE difference. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:35 GreggSauce wrote: edit-and yeah with that, numy is just making stuff up, NA treats their players with permanency and loyalty, whereas in korea...if faker starts becoming an issue he's getting dropped. i'd be willing to be they would've kept scarra as a starter if he chose to stay with the team until his contract was up. It's more that having a big fanbase is more important than being skillful. It's not really "loyalty" since if those people would lose their fanbase they would be cut instantly. This seems to be changing slightly this year but we'll see if it lasts. On July 12 2014 03:53 nafta wrote: Lol ok.Clearly that is why even pro teams with years of experience play better in scrims than on stage .Having someone like scarra on a new team would make a HUGE difference. Not to refute your point but LCS scrims sound awful. Guys leaving after a kill or if they start doing poorly and teams dicking around. The way LCS is set up currently looks more like the LCS games are proper scrims and playoffs is the actual tournament. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:53 nafta wrote: Lol ok.Clearly that is why even pro teams with years of experience play better in scrims than on stage .its a more or less equivalent handicap, either get better or get over it. you can take someone who is no longer a t1 player (and has likely hit his skill ceiling) but has the advantage of being able to babysit and cheerleader, or you can draft new talent. NA doesn't want a bunch of mediocre veterans bouncing around and cycling through, they want new talent. the two new teams should be actually new teams instead of the cobbled together from junk/ spare parts. i don't mean to be harsh (okay, yeah i totally do), but usually if someone gets taken off the roster for a skill-related issue, it's, y'know, because they aren't good enough. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Unfortunately, expanding LCS doesn't really help this issue. The "optimal" size for LCS is entirely based on how the hierarchy of teams in each region is stratified--and if this changes, you just repeat the same thing again, at the new bottom of the league. Really, there just needs to be an overall format change that allows the weaker LCS teams to participate in something that gives them more mixed competition rather than just losing to the best teams week after week. While I don't think we need to go back to total wild west open tournament participation, it's easy to see from Korea as an example that a secondary tournament like NLB does a lot to address these issues. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:59 ticklishmusic wrote: its a more or less equivalent handicap, either get better or get over it. you can take someone who is no longer a t1 player (and has likely hit his skill ceiling) but has the advantage of being able to babysit and cheerleader, or you can draft new talent. NA doesn't want a bunch of mediocre veterans bouncing around and cycling through, they want new talent. the two new teams should be actually new teams instead of the cobbled together from junk/ spare parts. i don't mean to be harsh (okay, yeah i totally do), but usually if someone gets taken off the roster for a skill-related issue, it's, y'know, because they aren't good enough. There is a very big difference between a top 4 lcs team and a challenger team.If finding new talent was so easy everyone would be doing it.We all saw goldenglue who didn't do anything when he got the chance either. I am not saying all old pros are better than everyone not in lcs but adding someone like that can have a much bigger positive impact on a team than a slightly better challenger player that is just a bit better atm.Sure in the future he might not cut it but he will help the other players grow and denying that is simply wrong. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On July 12 2014 04:07 nafta wrote: There is a very big difference between a top 4 lcs team and a challenger team.If finding new talent was so easy everyone would be doing it.We all saw goldenglue who didn't do anything when he got the chance either. I am not saying all old pros are better than everyone not in lcs but adding someone like that can have a much bigger positive impact on a team than a slightly better challenger player that is just a bit better atm.Sure in the future he might not cut it but he will help the other players grow and denying that is simply wrong. nervers aren't real just get over it it's that easy | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:59 ticklishmusic wrote: its a more or less equivalent handicap, either get better or get over it. you can take someone who is no longer a t1 player (and has likely hit his skill ceiling) but has the advantage of being able to babysit and cheerleader, or you can draft new talent. NA doesn't want a bunch of mediocre veterans bouncing around and cycling through, they want new talent. the two new teams should be actually new teams instead of the cobbled together from junk/ spare parts. i don't mean to be harsh (okay, yeah i totally do), but usually if someone gets taken off the roster for a skill-related issue, it's, y'know, because they aren't good enough. I think this is a load of shit, lol. There's still an astronomical gap between a solo queue superstar and a strong professional player. A lot of that comes down to the individual, but also how that player is trained and groomed into a player accustomed to playing in a competitive environment. While it's possible for a team of all 5 fresh players to "figure it out", this is ultimately pretty unreliable. The fresh talent is more likely to be able to get their bearings for competitive play under the guidance of a veteran, as even a mediocre veteran will have vastly more experience with things that the amateur player will have none of. The 4 fresh + 1 veteran model (or 3 fresh + 2 veterans occasionally) has repeatedly been shown in China and Korea to be effective in grooming unrefined newly scouted players into competitive-level players. The other way new talent gets developed is through a fresh sister team being brought up alongside a veteran team and training closely alongside that veteran team. But during its growth, Korean teams grew through both of these methods. With NA top-tier teams seemingly not treating secondary teams this seriously (in part because of the rule preventing both from participating in LCS simultaneously no doubt), the 4+1 way of developing new talent is the most suitable for the climate in NA. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
i see why people don't play galio. can someone explain to me why they made it so karthus e, or fid ult will keep going if u turn on zhonya's but they decided hey lets have it stop galio's ult, even though every other skill the enemy team has can stop his ult too. oh and also they made it so that if they have tenacity then his ult is completely worthless because they can walk/flash right out of it. what the fuck. basically his ult is "sit there and die for 2 seconds" | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 12 2014 04:53 travis wrote: ok so i played galio mid just now i see why people don't play galio. can someone explain to me why they made it so karthus e, or fid ult will keep going if u turn on zhonya's but they decided hey lets have it stop galio's ult, even though every other skill the enemy team has can stop his ult too. oh and also they made it so that if they have tenacity then his ult is completely worthless because they can walk/flash right out of it. what the fuck. basically his ult is "sit there and die for 2 seconds" Because Galio's entire ult is a cast duration, so it can be interrupted mid-cast, like any other spell. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 12 2014 04:53 travis wrote: ok so i played galio mid just now i see why people don't play galio. can someone explain to me why they made it so karthus e, or fid ult will keep going if u turn on zhonya's but they decided hey lets have it stop galio's ult, even though every other skill the enemy team has can stop his ult too. oh and also they made it so that if they have tenacity then his ult is completely worthless because they can walk/flash right out of it. what the fuck. basically his ult is "sit there and die for 2 seconds" neither of those spells are channeling. you can zhonyas during them and not galio because galio is actively channeling during it. its why you can zhonyas to cancel TF teleport as well. but if you put more than 1 point in gust until you were forced to you made a mistake. | ||
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