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[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 33

Forum Index > LoL General
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Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 72 Next
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 06 2014 09:36 GMT
#641
On July 06 2014 18:21 JazzVortical wrote:
Both projectile blocking skills are dumb because they invalidate your options. You can't do anything against them, which goes against Riot's counterplay hard on, but they did it anyway. Both just sit there, fucking you over.

They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and add no interesting interactions for the opposing team.



Why aren't you complaining about stuns or spell shields or whatever... actually the walls are totally coherent with riots stance on counterplay. They want an option to nullify ranged attacks, but they want there to be a counterplay as opposed to just a straight up shield. Hence the wall which is only positionally effective.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-06 10:36:00
July 06 2014 10:33 GMT
#642
On July 06 2014 18:36 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2014 18:21 JazzVortical wrote:
Both projectile blocking skills are dumb because they invalidate your options. You can't do anything against them, which goes against Riot's counterplay hard on, but they did it anyway. Both just sit there, fucking you over.

They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and add no interesting interactions for the opposing team.



Why aren't you complaining about stuns or spell shields or whatever... actually the walls are totally coherent with riots stance on counterplay. They want an option to nullify ranged attacks, but they want there to be a counterplay as opposed to just a straight up shield. Hence the wall which is only positionally effective.

Almost all stuns are dodge-able. Those that aren't have severe drawbacks (e.g. fiddle fear is short range, Taric is a trash champion). And there are things like QSS, Mikael's and Cleanse if you want to go down that path. Spell shield is breakable.

How come people don't just walk around it then? It isn't feasible. What do you do as an ADC when Wind Wall is in front of you and you need to hit people on the other side? I guarantee you're not going to walk though it or around it and closer to the enemy team, unless of course you have a ridiculous advantage. Waiting for it to dissipate is your only option. Like I said, that's not an interesting interaction for the opposing team.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 06 2014 10:53 GMT
#643
Braum gets a MS buff during Unbreakable. The best way to deal with the wall is actually to send someone with a knock-back send him flying to clear the way.
Windwall you want to move around it, which means you're awfully close to Yasuo which is exactly what he wants.

On July 06 2014 12:36 cLutZ wrote:
Well yes, but compounding that is that they are on champs that want you to run at them and try to engage. It's like giving Ezreal Anivia's wall: "oh my you don't want to fight me with terrain around, lol."

'cause Anivia isn't retarded as soon as there's terrain.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
July 06 2014 10:53 GMT
#644
something people also have to realize about yasuo is that champ select is where you can really counter him as a champion by picking a comp that isnt overly projecticle based or by picking things that can threaten squishy melees (like most toplane and jungle champs that are popular are). He's something you have to keep in mind when you are drafting, if he was really super op and uncounterable then every pro midlaner would be playing him, but only a few of them do (and less of those play him well mind you).
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-06 11:42:49
July 06 2014 11:41 GMT
#645
On July 06 2014 19:53 Dusty wrote:
something people also have to realize about yasuo is that champ select is where you can really counter him as a champion by picking a comp that isnt overly projecticle based or by picking things that can threaten squishy melees (like most toplane and jungle champs that are popular are). He's something you have to keep in mind when you are drafting, if he was really super op and uncounterable then every pro midlaner would be playing him, but only a few of them do (and less of those play him well mind you).

Of course he has counters. But that still doesn't change Wind Wall being a dumb ability. Vlad has counters too. But that still doesn't change Sanguine Pool being a dumb ability. Fizz has counters too. But that still doesn't change Playful/Trickster being a dumb ability.

I don't care if the champ is terrible. He could have the lowest win rate in the game. Wind Wall is dumb ability.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
July 06 2014 11:44 GMT
#646
On July 06 2014 19:33 JazzVortical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2014 18:36 sob3k wrote:
On July 06 2014 18:21 JazzVortical wrote:
Both projectile blocking skills are dumb because they invalidate your options. You can't do anything against them, which goes against Riot's counterplay hard on, but they did it anyway. Both just sit there, fucking you over.

They are just so incredibly frustrating to play against and add no interesting interactions for the opposing team.



Why aren't you complaining about stuns or spell shields or whatever... actually the walls are totally coherent with riots stance on counterplay. They want an option to nullify ranged attacks, but they want there to be a counterplay as opposed to just a straight up shield. Hence the wall which is only positionally effective.

Almost all stuns are dodge-able. Those that aren't have severe drawbacks (e.g. fiddle fear is short range, Taric is a trash champion). And there are things like QSS, Mikael's and Cleanse if you want to go down that path. Spell shield is breakable.

How come people don't just walk around it then? It isn't feasible. What do you do as an ADC when Wind Wall is in front of you and you need to hit people on the other side? I guarantee you're not going to walk though it or around it and closer to the enemy team, unless of course you have a ridiculous advantage. Waiting for it to dissipate is your only option. Like I said, that's not an interesting interaction for the opposing team.

Honestly I just think windwall lasts too long(interaction issues aside). Well placed, it's almost a teamwide counterstrike that lasts twice as long. Having almost 25% uptime on pretty much the strongest ability in the game is stupid.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
July 06 2014 12:35 GMT
#647
On July 06 2014 20:41 JazzVortical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2014 19:53 Dusty wrote:
something people also have to realize about yasuo is that champ select is where you can really counter him as a champion by picking a comp that isnt overly projecticle based or by picking things that can threaten squishy melees (like most toplane and jungle champs that are popular are). He's something you have to keep in mind when you are drafting, if he was really super op and uncounterable then every pro midlaner would be playing him, but only a few of them do (and less of those play him well mind you).

Of course he has counters. But that still doesn't change Wind Wall being a dumb ability. Vlad has counters too. But that still doesn't change Sanguine Pool being a dumb ability. Fizz has counters too. But that still doesn't change Playful/Trickster being a dumb ability.

I don't care if the champ is terrible. He could have the lowest win rate in the game. Wind Wall is dumb ability.


that's not how the game works though
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
July 06 2014 12:36 GMT
#648
I think the biggest issue is that the wind wall is too big. Of course you want to try and maneuver around it, but level 5 wind wall is fucking HUGE which makes this ability even more stupid.
But well my proposed nerf to it would probably be a damage threshold. Its just ridiculous that you can completely nullify certain ults with it
Volband
Profile Joined March 2011
Hungary6034 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-06 14:52:45
July 06 2014 12:48 GMT
#649
What's fucking ridiculous is that when I pick Nami cuz I forgot Braum is not banned, they pick him, and GG, good luck playing without ult. Luckily her other abilities rock, but it's still a joke that a huge ass wave is stopped by Braums (compared to the wave) tiny shield.

At least vs Yasuo you know if you have a ~12-14 sec window to ult succesfully, but not vs Braum.
miicah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2470 Posts
July 06 2014 13:51 GMT
#650
I'm starting to feel how China does, still on 4.10 on OCE...
@miicah88
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 06 2014 14:52 GMT
#651
What's the popular jungle Kayle build now?
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-06 16:16:01
July 06 2014 16:10 GMT
#652
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/29xmii/whats_playing_lol_in_china_like_my_3_years_high/
interesting post from scarra's brother, also i need vods of the legendary chinese fiora player he wrote about
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 06 2014 16:12 GMT
#653
On July 06 2014 20:41 JazzVortical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2014 19:53 Dusty wrote:
something people also have to realize about yasuo is that champ select is where you can really counter him as a champion by picking a comp that isnt overly projecticle based or by picking things that can threaten squishy melees (like most toplane and jungle champs that are popular are). He's something you have to keep in mind when you are drafting, if he was really super op and uncounterable then every pro midlaner would be playing him, but only a few of them do (and less of those play him well mind you).

Of course he has counters. But that still doesn't change Wind Wall being a dumb ability. Vlad has counters too. But that still doesn't change Sanguine Pool being a dumb ability. Fizz has counters too. But that still doesn't change Playful/Trickster being a dumb ability.

I don't care if the champ is terrible. He could have the lowest win rate in the game. Wind Wall is dumb ability.

i feel like this game becomes 20x more cancerous whenever vlad becomes popular again
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
July 06 2014 16:16 GMT
#654
On July 07 2014 01:12 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2014 20:41 JazzVortical wrote:
On July 06 2014 19:53 Dusty wrote:
something people also have to realize about yasuo is that champ select is where you can really counter him as a champion by picking a comp that isnt overly projecticle based or by picking things that can threaten squishy melees (like most toplane and jungle champs that are popular are). He's something you have to keep in mind when you are drafting, if he was really super op and uncounterable then every pro midlaner would be playing him, but only a few of them do (and less of those play him well mind you).

Of course he has counters. But that still doesn't change Wind Wall being a dumb ability. Vlad has counters too. But that still doesn't change Sanguine Pool being a dumb ability. Fizz has counters too. But that still doesn't change Playful/Trickster being a dumb ability.

I don't care if the champ is terrible. He could have the lowest win rate in the game. Wind Wall is dumb ability.

i feel like this game becomes 20x more cancerous whenever vlad becomes popular again


And Vlad will not be popular as long as there are so many champions and game mechanics that shut him out.
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
July 06 2014 16:19 GMT
#655
On July 07 2014 01:10 kongoline wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/29xmii/whats_playing_lol_in_china_like_my_3_years_high/
interesting post from scarra's brother, also i need vods of the legendary chinese fiora player he wrote about


Lol that sounds fun
Useless wet fish.
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
July 06 2014 16:19 GMT
#656
I miss vlad
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 06 2014 16:23 GMT
#657
On July 07 2014 01:16 Dusty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2014 01:12 arb wrote:
On July 06 2014 20:41 JazzVortical wrote:
On July 06 2014 19:53 Dusty wrote:
something people also have to realize about yasuo is that champ select is where you can really counter him as a champion by picking a comp that isnt overly projecticle based or by picking things that can threaten squishy melees (like most toplane and jungle champs that are popular are). He's something you have to keep in mind when you are drafting, if he was really super op and uncounterable then every pro midlaner would be playing him, but only a few of them do (and less of those play him well mind you).

Of course he has counters. But that still doesn't change Wind Wall being a dumb ability. Vlad has counters too. But that still doesn't change Sanguine Pool being a dumb ability. Fizz has counters too. But that still doesn't change Playful/Trickster being a dumb ability.

I don't care if the champ is terrible. He could have the lowest win rate in the game. Wind Wall is dumb ability.

i feel like this game becomes 20x more cancerous whenever vlad becomes popular again


And Vlad will not be popular as long as there are so many champions and game mechanics that shut him out.

I think its really just surviving the lane phase with him, kinda like Ryze he feels like a ticking time bomb before you cant do anything to him anymore
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
UnKooL
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1667 Posts
July 06 2014 16:33 GMT
#658
How does TSM Amazing have a challenger border? Didn't he come to NA after season 3?
LoL: UnKooL and SoloQFiendUnKooL, SC2: UnKooL
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
July 06 2014 16:35 GMT
#659
On July 07 2014 01:33 UnKooL wrote:
How does TSM Amazing have a challenger border? Didn't he come to NA after season 3?

Account transfer, I'm guessing.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-06 16:38:25
July 06 2014 16:38 GMT
#660
On July 07 2014 01:23 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2014 01:16 Dusty wrote:
On July 07 2014 01:12 arb wrote:
On July 06 2014 20:41 JazzVortical wrote:
On July 06 2014 19:53 Dusty wrote:
something people also have to realize about yasuo is that champ select is where you can really counter him as a champion by picking a comp that isnt overly projecticle based or by picking things that can threaten squishy melees (like most toplane and jungle champs that are popular are). He's something you have to keep in mind when you are drafting, if he was really super op and uncounterable then every pro midlaner would be playing him, but only a few of them do (and less of those play him well mind you).

Of course he has counters. But that still doesn't change Wind Wall being a dumb ability. Vlad has counters too. But that still doesn't change Sanguine Pool being a dumb ability. Fizz has counters too. But that still doesn't change Playful/Trickster being a dumb ability.

I don't care if the champ is terrible. He could have the lowest win rate in the game. Wind Wall is dumb ability.

i feel like this game becomes 20x more cancerous whenever vlad becomes popular again


And Vlad will not be popular as long as there are so many champions and game mechanics that shut him out.

I think its really just surviving the lane phase with him, kinda like Ryze he feels like a ticking time bomb before you cant do anything to him anymore

i mained him and still love vlad but he is bad in soloQ, has no cc, no burst, no roam potential, yes he is relatively safe in lane but his scaling is very slow he needs 5+ items where he starts to be more relevant than bruisers like shyv,irelia, on top of that he has bad matchups like j4,fiora, riven,irelia who will completely shit on u at any point of the game, out roam and have higher impact for the first 35minutes
yes u eventually will be team fight monster but 95% games are decided way before that moment
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