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On July 06 2014 04:56 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 03:04 cLutZ wrote:On July 05 2014 20:26 Amui wrote:
I think projectile blocks could potentially be good, but they were rushed into the game before fixing all the intricacies that simply don't make sense. Gragas ulti into windwall should blow up upon contacting the wall, dealing the effect in a 180 degree arc, not get eaten. Same with gragas Q. Pretty much every single projectile that has an endpoint AoE effect should deal damage upon contacting the wall in a 180 degree arc.
Also on the skill eating point. Nami ult for example shouldn't get fully absorbed, only the part that contacts wall should get eaten. Same thing with talon ult, which is even worse. There are so many cases that are straight up nonsensical and dumb that are ignored because some champion designer decided that X should be in the game, without thinking about the consequences. I think that would make the skills less frustrating to play against but the main problem with the two skills right now is that they are on champions that generally beat their ranged counterparts in all-in situations. So they negate your poke, but also would love for you to try to kill them, because they just will kill you. Even that would be fine if they had shit late games so you just farm and avoid letting them get fed, like against swain, riven, yorik, etc. However, they scale very well. I kept telling you people that Braum is weak to Janna and Lulu for this very reason but no one believes me.
I can take a dump on Braum in lane with Lulu (and still die if we ever all-in/get all-ined because of how Unbreakable would tilt the damage in their favour), but past that it won't matter. Pair him with any kind of champions that requires people to dive them (or that people don't want to remain close to apart from to kill them, like Karthus/Ziggs), and he'll stop so much damage (and if you have several melees on your team, he'll quite literally split your team in two) and Janna or Lulu won't be able to do much about that.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 06 2014 05:11 Ryuu314 wrote:
I can see this screwing up spectacularly. for one thing, you'd get really odd interactions with non damage/projectile spells unintentionally getting blocked.
Why? The BVeil effect only applies as part of the original spell--such that the server processes it and the original spell effect consecutively--there shouldn't be any room for some unintended spell to accidentally pop the BVeil effect if this is implemented the way I'm thinking.
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On July 06 2014 04:56 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 03:04 cLutZ wrote:On July 05 2014 20:26 Amui wrote:
I think projectile blocks could potentially be good, but they were rushed into the game before fixing all the intricacies that simply don't make sense. Gragas ulti into windwall should blow up upon contacting the wall, dealing the effect in a 180 degree arc, not get eaten. Same with gragas Q. Pretty much every single projectile that has an endpoint AoE effect should deal damage upon contacting the wall in a 180 degree arc.
Also on the skill eating point. Nami ult for example shouldn't get fully absorbed, only the part that contacts wall should get eaten. Same thing with talon ult, which is even worse. There are so many cases that are straight up nonsensical and dumb that are ignored because some champion designer decided that X should be in the game, without thinking about the consequences. I think that would make the skills less frustrating to play against but the main problem with the two skills right now is that they are on champions that generally beat their ranged counterparts in all-in situations. So they negate your poke, but also would love for you to try to kill them, because they just will kill you. Even that would be fine if they had shit late games so you just farm and avoid letting them get fed, like against swain, riven, yorik, etc. However, they scale very well. I kept telling you people that Braum is weak to Janna and Lulu for this very reason but no one believes me.
Even if they did the problem with braum isn't laning.All popular supports do well vs him in lane.
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On July 06 2014 05:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 04:52 Amui wrote:
You'd have to recode stuff that should only get partially destroyed(nami ult for example). You'd probably have to add 180degree version of all the various aoe's, and check>replace, but it would definitely improve the projectile block interactions. You wouldn't even need a semicircular version of each AoE spell. Just create a single semicircular dummy AoE BVeil effect with variable radius that instantly is applied at the moment of contact, so that everything on the far side of the wall instantly has the BVeil effect applied and immediately consumed by the incoming spell. Having everyone on the far side of the wall spell-shield the full AoE is functionally equivalent to the spell only having a semicircular AoE on the near side. The hardest part would actually be doing the art assets, because every exploding AoE would need a blast animation corresponding to the semicircular AoE.
You'd have to register the spells otherwise stuff that can start behind the shield without going through it (for example Lulu casting E on Braum then Q behind him; I'd quote Viktor's E but it isn't stopped to begin with) would get popped when it shouldn't.
Also spells like Tsunami would be hell to code, as you'd still have to take into account the portion that is "removed" to not have the wave go through him when it's assumed it should be blocked.
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On July 06 2014 05:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 04:56 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 03:04 cLutZ wrote:On July 05 2014 20:26 Amui wrote:
I think projectile blocks could potentially be good, but they were rushed into the game before fixing all the intricacies that simply don't make sense. Gragas ulti into windwall should blow up upon contacting the wall, dealing the effect in a 180 degree arc, not get eaten. Same with gragas Q. Pretty much every single projectile that has an endpoint AoE effect should deal damage upon contacting the wall in a 180 degree arc.
Also on the skill eating point. Nami ult for example shouldn't get fully absorbed, only the part that contacts wall should get eaten. Same thing with talon ult, which is even worse. There are so many cases that are straight up nonsensical and dumb that are ignored because some champion designer decided that X should be in the game, without thinking about the consequences. I think that would make the skills less frustrating to play against but the main problem with the two skills right now is that they are on champions that generally beat their ranged counterparts in all-in situations. So they negate your poke, but also would love for you to try to kill them, because they just will kill you. Even that would be fine if they had shit late games so you just farm and avoid letting them get fed, like against swain, riven, yorik, etc. However, they scale very well. I kept telling you people that Braum is weak to Janna and Lulu for this very reason but no one believes me. What reason in my post exactly? Because Janna and Lulu are fairly dissimilar supports.
They both have significant auto attack damage buffs. You end up saying "ok protect your AD, ours is stronger anyway". In Janna's case she ults to keep her team alive with the heal and in Lulus she can ult your tank to have the same effect as Braums self defensive buffs.
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On July 06 2014 05:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 05:11 Ryuu314 wrote:
I can see this screwing up spectacularly. for one thing, you'd get really odd interactions with non damage/projectile spells unintentionally getting blocked. Why? The BVeil effect only applies as part of the original spell--such that the server processes it and the original spell effect consecutively--there shouldn't be any room for some unintended spell to accidentally pop the BVeil effect if this is implemented the way I'm thinking.
So basically you want the spell to register a projectile, wait for the projectile to hit everything behind the wall, then right before said projectile lands, apply a BVeil effect to everything behind the wall. The server basically has to predict whether or not a projectile would hit in the absence of the wall too. Also what happens if your target is at the edge of the projectile aoe, gets the BVeil, then flashes out of the projectile path? Then they get hit by another ability, which gets unintentionally blocked.
Iunno, sounds a lot more complex/convoluted than simply making the wall a bunch of minion-champions (which tbh I'm kinda surprised they didn't do) and adding 180 degree ability variations. Even then, you'd run into the problem of stuff like Nami ult or Gragas ult - stuff who's aoe is much larger than the size of the Wind Wall. Unless you make the ability and wind wall have dynamic aoe sizes that basically cuts out chunks of the effect, you'd run into problems with Wind Wall having a larger area of effect than intended.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 06 2014 05:23 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 05:10 TheYango wrote:On July 06 2014 04:52 Amui wrote:
You'd have to recode stuff that should only get partially destroyed(nami ult for example). You'd probably have to add 180degree version of all the various aoe's, and check>replace, but it would definitely improve the projectile block interactions. You wouldn't even need a semicircular version of each AoE spell. Just create a single semicircular dummy AoE BVeil effect with variable radius that instantly is applied at the moment of contact, so that everything on the far side of the wall instantly has the BVeil effect applied and immediately consumed by the incoming spell. Having everyone on the far side of the wall spell-shield the full AoE is functionally equivalent to the spell only having a semicircular AoE on the near side. The hardest part would actually be doing the art assets, because every exploding AoE would need a blast animation corresponding to the semicircular AoE. You'd have to register the spells otherwise stuff that can start behind the shield without going through it (for example Lulu casting E on Braum then Q behind him; I'd quote Viktor's E but it isn't stopped to begin with) would get popped when it shouldn't. Also spells like Tsunami would be hell to code, as you'd still have to take into account the portion that is "removed" to not have the wave go through him when it's assumed it should be blocked.
I was talking specifically about the idea of circular AoEs detonating on contact with the wall. Obviously my suggestion doesn't apply to non-circular AoEs.
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On July 06 2014 05:29 Ryuu314 wrote:
Iunno, sounds a lot more complex/convoluted than simply making the wall a bunch of minions (which tbh I'm kinda surprised they didn't do) and adding 180 degree ability variations.
Some abilities are pass-through, others only hit champions regardless. And when you code, the less specific cases you have to deal with, the more elegant and maintainable your whole structure is.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 06 2014 05:29 Ryuu314 wrote:
The server basically has to predict whether or not a projectile would hit in the absence of the wall too.
Why does the server have to predict anything? It just applies the BVeil effect to anything affected by the spell that also is in the hemispherical AoE behind the wall. From the server, the BVeil effect and the spell effect happen on consecutive frames--which means that from a human perspective, there's no meaningful movement/action that can happen between them.
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Honestly, I think Wind Wall is fine the way it is. Is it incredibly powerful and occasionally frustrating? Yes, but so are tons of other stuff in the game.
Flavor-wise, you can explain it as the wall blowing the projectile or wave or whatever away.
On July 06 2014 05:35 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 05:29 Ryuu314 wrote:
The server basically has to predict whether or not a projectile would hit in the absence of the wall too. Why does the server have to predict anything? It just applies the BVeil effect to anything affected by the spell that also is in the hemispherical AoE behind the wall. From the server, the BVeil effect and the spell effect happen on consecutive frames--which means that from a human perspective, there's no meaningful movement/action that can happen between them.
This only works for circular aoe abilities that have their effect on contact. For stuff like Nami wave or Ez ult it doesn't work at all. Adding additional behaviors to an ability to only account for a sub group of a larger sub group of abilities make things more prone to breaking and fucking up in general. If Riot is going to go through and code a different behavior for every sub group of abilities, they might as well just add alternate abilities (IE. Gragas Barrel and Gragas Barrel Wind Wall'd).
Generally speaking, it's best to keep things as simple as possible.
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United States47024 Posts
"Let's code everything from scratch rather than using a simple, reusable template just because there are some cases where that template doesn't apply, rather than using the template where it works and worrying about the other cases later".
Yeah that's not how this usually works.
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On July 06 2014 05:27 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 05:15 cLutZ wrote:On July 06 2014 04:56 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 03:04 cLutZ wrote:On July 05 2014 20:26 Amui wrote:
I think projectile blocks could potentially be good, but they were rushed into the game before fixing all the intricacies that simply don't make sense. Gragas ulti into windwall should blow up upon contacting the wall, dealing the effect in a 180 degree arc, not get eaten. Same with gragas Q. Pretty much every single projectile that has an endpoint AoE effect should deal damage upon contacting the wall in a 180 degree arc.
Also on the skill eating point. Nami ult for example shouldn't get fully absorbed, only the part that contacts wall should get eaten. Same thing with talon ult, which is even worse. There are so many cases that are straight up nonsensical and dumb that are ignored because some champion designer decided that X should be in the game, without thinking about the consequences. I think that would make the skills less frustrating to play against but the main problem with the two skills right now is that they are on champions that generally beat their ranged counterparts in all-in situations. So they negate your poke, but also would love for you to try to kill them, because they just will kill you. Even that would be fine if they had shit late games so you just farm and avoid letting them get fed, like against swain, riven, yorik, etc. However, they scale very well. I kept telling you people that Braum is weak to Janna and Lulu for this very reason but no one believes me. What reason in my post exactly? Because Janna and Lulu are fairly dissimilar supports. They both have significant auto attack damage buffs. You end up saying "ok protect your AD, ours is stronger anyway". In Janna's case she ults to keep her team alive with the heal and in Lulus she can ult your tank to have the same effect as Braums self defensive buffs.
That is a vast overestimation of what both those champions give to an ADC (not to mention Lulu is much more of a dive-support than ADC buffer). Braum gets 40% DR, plus a crap of bonus MR/AR, and redirects all that damage onto himself which means priority targeting is basically meaningless. I really am not seeing how your AD is able to be stronger in this situation.
The way teams have beaten Braum teams is by either being significantly ahead and just brute forcing through him, or getting picks because he doesn't get picks or stop his teammates from getting picked as well as Thresh or Nami. You don't want to teamfight against a Braum.
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On July 06 2014 05:36 Ryuu314 wrote:
Honestly, I think Wind Wall is fine the way it is. Is it incredibly powerful and occasionally frustrating? Yes, but so are tons of other stuff in the game.
Flavor-wise, you can explain it as the wall blowing the projectile or wave or whatever away.
I tried to explain this before, but the problem isn't innately windwall, it is who has it. If these abilities were on champions you could just delete if you got on the same side of the wall as them (like if it was Nidalee's Ultimate instead of Cougar form) it wouldn't present an existential crisis for ranged opponents.
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On July 06 2014 05:58 TheYango wrote:
"Let's code everything from scratch rather than using a simple, reusable template just because there are some cases where that template doesn't apply, rather than using the template where it works and worrying about the other cases later".
Yeah that's not how this usually works.
Except it's not a simple template and it's not "some" cases, it's quite a few.
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On July 06 2014 06:03 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 05:27 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 05:15 cLutZ wrote:On July 06 2014 04:56 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 03:04 cLutZ wrote:On July 05 2014 20:26 Amui wrote:
I think projectile blocks could potentially be good, but they were rushed into the game before fixing all the intricacies that simply don't make sense. Gragas ulti into windwall should blow up upon contacting the wall, dealing the effect in a 180 degree arc, not get eaten. Same with gragas Q. Pretty much every single projectile that has an endpoint AoE effect should deal damage upon contacting the wall in a 180 degree arc.
Also on the skill eating point. Nami ult for example shouldn't get fully absorbed, only the part that contacts wall should get eaten. Same thing with talon ult, which is even worse. There are so many cases that are straight up nonsensical and dumb that are ignored because some champion designer decided that X should be in the game, without thinking about the consequences. I think that would make the skills less frustrating to play against but the main problem with the two skills right now is that they are on champions that generally beat their ranged counterparts in all-in situations. So they negate your poke, but also would love for you to try to kill them, because they just will kill you. Even that would be fine if they had shit late games so you just farm and avoid letting them get fed, like against swain, riven, yorik, etc. However, they scale very well. I kept telling you people that Braum is weak to Janna and Lulu for this very reason but no one believes me. What reason in my post exactly? Because Janna and Lulu are fairly dissimilar supports. They both have significant auto attack damage buffs. You end up saying "ok protect your AD, ours is stronger anyway". In Janna's case she ults to keep her team alive with the heal and in Lulus she can ult your tank to have the same effect as Braums self defensive buffs. That is a vast overestimation of what both those champions give to an ADC (not to mention Lulu is much more of a dive-support than ADC buffer). Braum gets 40% DR, plus a crap of bonus MR/AR, and redirects all that damage onto himself which means priority targeting is basically meaningless. I really am not seeing how your AD is able to be stronger in this situation. The way teams have beaten Braum teams is by either being significantly ahead and just brute forcing through him, or getting picks because he doesn't get picks or stop his teammates from getting picked as well as Thresh or Nami. You don't want to teamfight against a Braum.
Braum gets 40% damage reduction for 4 seconds. Janna gives 50+.1AP AD the entire fight. Lulu gives up to 105+.15 AP on attack damage. Braum can only do his thing and actually have effective 40% DR while making you focus him if his entire team is behind him. This means, basically, that braum is taking free damage (because his engage is pretty poor). Otherwise someone on his team has to be in front, and that person can be focused and if that is the case then you're super far ahead because your AD has bonus stats and their AD doesn't.
Unless your carry is so far behind/so weak compared to the enemy carry that the bonus damage doesn't cut it in bringing you up to or over their level you win that fight.
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Lulu's damage is intercepted by whoever stands between your target and you. Braum does that to your whole damage with his %damage reduction.
He also gives 50+ armour/MR to whoever he dashes too, which can be your AD or your frontline. He can block your AD's damage. He gets any diver/melee going in stunned, with 100+ bonus magc damage for it, and his ult will stop any initiation on top of catching people and disrupting their mobility. He can initiate with it if needed.
Janna can't and doesn't disrupt post cast, Lulu can't and her initiation is comp-dependant. They can't frontline either, they have to stand back.
Their value is directly tied to the AD. Braum can support anything that's strong when ranged, and anything melee that'd decide to focus on your frontline (because he can bodyblock your AD for said melee). Lulu or Janna won't help a Ryze as much as a Kog'Maw. Braum gives no fucks and protects both. At once if he has to.
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On July 06 2014 06:57 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 06:03 cLutZ wrote:On July 06 2014 05:27 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 05:15 cLutZ wrote:On July 06 2014 04:56 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 03:04 cLutZ wrote:On July 05 2014 20:26 Amui wrote:
I think projectile blocks could potentially be good, but they were rushed into the game before fixing all the intricacies that simply don't make sense. Gragas ulti into windwall should blow up upon contacting the wall, dealing the effect in a 180 degree arc, not get eaten. Same with gragas Q. Pretty much every single projectile that has an endpoint AoE effect should deal damage upon contacting the wall in a 180 degree arc.
Also on the skill eating point. Nami ult for example shouldn't get fully absorbed, only the part that contacts wall should get eaten. Same thing with talon ult, which is even worse. There are so many cases that are straight up nonsensical and dumb that are ignored because some champion designer decided that X should be in the game, without thinking about the consequences. I think that would make the skills less frustrating to play against but the main problem with the two skills right now is that they are on champions that generally beat their ranged counterparts in all-in situations. So they negate your poke, but also would love for you to try to kill them, because they just will kill you. Even that would be fine if they had shit late games so you just farm and avoid letting them get fed, like against swain, riven, yorik, etc. However, they scale very well. I kept telling you people that Braum is weak to Janna and Lulu for this very reason but no one believes me. What reason in my post exactly? Because Janna and Lulu are fairly dissimilar supports. They both have significant auto attack damage buffs. You end up saying "ok protect your AD, ours is stronger anyway". In Janna's case she ults to keep her team alive with the heal and in Lulus she can ult your tank to have the same effect as Braums self defensive buffs. That is a vast overestimation of what both those champions give to an ADC (not to mention Lulu is much more of a dive-support than ADC buffer). Braum gets 40% DR, plus a crap of bonus MR/AR, and redirects all that damage onto himself which means priority targeting is basically meaningless. I really am not seeing how your AD is able to be stronger in this situation. The way teams have beaten Braum teams is by either being significantly ahead and just brute forcing through him, or getting picks because he doesn't get picks or stop his teammates from getting picked as well as Thresh or Nami. You don't want to teamfight against a Braum. Braum gets 40% damage reduction for 4 seconds. Janna gives 50+.1AP AD the entire fight. Lulu gives up to 105+.15 AP on attack damage. Braum can only do his thing and actually have effective 40% DR while making you focus him if his entire team is behind him. This means, basically, that braum is taking free damage (because his engage is pretty poor). Otherwise someone on his team has to be in front, and that person can be focused and if that is the case then you're super far ahead because your AD has bonus stats and their AD doesn't. Unless your carry is so far behind/so weak compared to the enemy carry that the bonus damage doesn't cut it in bringing you up to or over their level you win that fight.
Entire fight? You mean, until it is broken? Janna is just not correct. Lulu does work against Braum but not because of what you are saying, she works because when your diver gets past Braum's wall, she can support him from the other side with E extended Qs, and of Course the speed/HP steroids of W/R. Powerful divers getting PAST Braum is what works, but engage is really hard in the current meta, and if you don't have dive support he essentially cuts your team in half, which is why Braum teams basically win teamfights unless they are way behind, or got picked.
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On July 06 2014 07:55 Alaric wrote:
Lulu's damage is intercepted by whoever stands between your target and you. Braum does that to your whole damage with his %damage reduction.
He also gives 50+ armour/MR to whoever he dashes too, which can be your AD or your frontline. He can block your AD's damage. He gets any diver/melee going in stunned, with 100+ bonus magc damage for it, and his ult will stop any initiation on top of catching people and disrupting their mobility. He can initiate with it if needed.
Janna can't and doesn't disrupt post cast, Lulu can't and her initiation is comp-dependant. They can't frontline either, they have to stand back.
Their value is directly tied to the AD. Braum can support anything that's strong when ranged, and anything melee that'd decide to focus on your frontline (because he can bodyblock your AD for said melee). Lulu or Janna won't help a Ryze as much as a Kog'Maw. Braum gives no fucks and protects both. At once if he has to.
Depends on how you build Lulu and how she needs to be played tbh. Sometimes you can get away with ap runes on Lulu, sometimes you build tank and focus on protecting your adc (q first into max e). The best thing still about Lulu is her strong disengage, if you see a forced initiate coming in you just glitterlance, shurelya's out of there and either reengage or disengage and you win. They'll blown so much to get the desired fight.
Depending on the runes/buildpath you went you can get some damage off (lategame it won't be anything) and if you get solari/randuins/talisman/.. you are decently tanky.
One of the better things about Lulu is that you won't get alot of focus because you provide so much utility and people tend to overlook that in a fight. (damage > utility) Then they get poly'd, knocked up, slowed and steroided and you win fights that way :3
Also I think Lulu has an edge against Braum early laning with her aa's and her passive. And if they want to engage you just poly the adc and it's all good. Her role has become much more protective in this meta.
Midgame teamfights is where it becomes quite difficult though, but once it comes to late, I do think it's down to who has to better peel/initiate/disengage/reengage/.. to tilt the scales in their favour.
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you guys think they oculd balance wind wall/ice shield by making them only able to absorb say.. 500 ranged damage? or something?(scaling with level obv)
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On July 06 2014 08:10 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2014 06:57 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 06:03 cLutZ wrote:On July 06 2014 05:27 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 05:15 cLutZ wrote:On July 06 2014 04:56 Goumindong wrote:On July 06 2014 03:04 cLutZ wrote:On July 05 2014 20:26 Amui wrote:
I think projectile blocks could potentially be good, but they were rushed into the game before fixing all the intricacies that simply don't make sense. Gragas ulti into windwall should blow up upon contacting the wall, dealing the effect in a 180 degree arc, not get eaten. Same with gragas Q. Pretty much every single projectile that has an endpoint AoE effect should deal damage upon contacting the wall in a 180 degree arc.
Also on the skill eating point. Nami ult for example shouldn't get fully absorbed, only the part that contacts wall should get eaten. Same thing with talon ult, which is even worse. There are so many cases that are straight up nonsensical and dumb that are ignored because some champion designer decided that X should be in the game, without thinking about the consequences. I think that would make the skills less frustrating to play against but the main problem with the two skills right now is that they are on champions that generally beat their ranged counterparts in all-in situations. So they negate your poke, but also would love for you to try to kill them, because they just will kill you. Even that would be fine if they had shit late games so you just farm and avoid letting them get fed, like against swain, riven, yorik, etc. However, they scale very well. I kept telling you people that Braum is weak to Janna and Lulu for this very reason but no one believes me. What reason in my post exactly? Because Janna and Lulu are fairly dissimilar supports. They both have significant auto attack damage buffs. You end up saying "ok protect your AD, ours is stronger anyway". In Janna's case she ults to keep her team alive with the heal and in Lulus she can ult your tank to have the same effect as Braums self defensive buffs. That is a vast overestimation of what both those champions give to an ADC (not to mention Lulu is much more of a dive-support than ADC buffer). Braum gets 40% DR, plus a crap of bonus MR/AR, and redirects all that damage onto himself which means priority targeting is basically meaningless. I really am not seeing how your AD is able to be stronger in this situation. The way teams have beaten Braum teams is by either being significantly ahead and just brute forcing through him, or getting picks because he doesn't get picks or stop his teammates from getting picked as well as Thresh or Nami. You don't want to teamfight against a Braum. Braum gets 40% damage reduction for 4 seconds. Janna gives 50+.1AP AD the entire fight. Lulu gives up to 105+.15 AP on attack damage. Braum can only do his thing and actually have effective 40% DR while making you focus him if his entire team is behind him. This means, basically, that braum is taking free damage (because his engage is pretty poor). Otherwise someone on his team has to be in front, and that person can be focused and if that is the case then you're super far ahead because your AD has bonus stats and their AD doesn't. Unless your carry is so far behind/so weak compared to the enemy carry that the bonus damage doesn't cut it in bringing you up to or over their level you win that fight. Entire fight? You mean, until it is broken? Janna is just not correct. Lulu does work against Braum but not because of what you are saying, she works because when your diver gets past Braum's wall, she can support him from the other side with E extended Qs, and of Course the speed/HP steroids of W/R. Powerful divers getting PAST Braum is what works, but engage is really hard in the current meta, and if you don't have dive support he essentially cuts your team in half, which is why Braum teams basically win teamfights unless they are way behind, or got picked.
Yes but if no one if in front of Braum, so that his skills matter, then the shield will not be broken. If the enemy team is so big that they can just run at you and win fights it doesn't matter what their support is.
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On July 06 2014 08:35 arb wrote:
you guys think they oculd balance wind wall/ice shield by making them only able to absorb say.. 500 ranged damage? or something?(scaling with level obv)
I think Wind Wall is pretty balanced. Super powerful effect, really long cooldown.
Unbreakable is pretty OP atm in my opinion. It's Wind Wall that turns into a mini Alistar ult. It also has a ridiculously low cooldown. Plus, when combined with Braum's W, Braum's tankiness gets a bit ridiculous. Braum E needs some combination of a cd nerf and/or a % damage reduction nerf. Either that, or Riot needs to take a ton of power away from his other skills.
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EPT
