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On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best.
How is he not strictly better?
Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate...
But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool.
Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either.
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why is everyone saying that new nidalee is stronger on reddit? her winrate is literally the lowest in the game atm, although that could just be cause she's new, but it seems like a drastic decrease from where she was.
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On June 24 2014 08:17 IMoperator wrote:
why is everyone saying that new nidalee is stronger on reddit? her winrate is literally the lowest in the game atm, although that could just be cause she's new, but it seems like a drastic decrease from where she was.
the average reddit poster is somewhere between bronze 5 and silver 1
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On June 24 2014 08:17 IMoperator wrote:
why is everyone saying that new nidalee is stronger on reddit? her winrate is literally the lowest in the game atm, although that could just be cause she's new, but it seems like a drastic decrease from where she was.
Cause she is a different champion and most people don't realize that.All champs who got changed from their roles dropped to lowest win rate like gragas who is actually a pretty good support/jungle/top.
Nida top is pretty beast right now.
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On June 24 2014 08:13 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best. How is he not strictly better? Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate... But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool. Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either.
if the meta required a champion that was good at peel and shields/healing janna wins that every time over thresh, if the meta needed a pure healing soraka wins over thresh. when you just nerf thresh someone else takes his place as the "new op" instead of actually creating choices for supports.
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On June 24 2014 07:41 Kinie wrote:
Pretty sure the current rankings for supports are as follows:
Thresh > Braum > Leona = Morgana = Annie > Nami > Soraka > Sona, anything below Sona is trash atm and shouldn't even be considered.
I'd definitely put Nami ahead of Annie and probably Morg/Leona.
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Annie is pretty trash in supporting.
Also if you put Soraka there then Janna deserves a mention.
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On June 24 2014 08:17 IMoperator wrote:
why is everyone saying that new nidalee is stronger on reddit? her winrate is literally the lowest in the game atm, although that could just be cause she's new, but it seems like a drastic decrease from where she was.
She's stronger in lane now, laning phase is when people have the most exposure to the champion in isolation. Ergo people thinks she's stronger overall.
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On June 24 2014 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 08:13 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best. How is he not strictly better? Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate... But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool. Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either. if the meta required a champion that was good at peel and shields/healing janna wins that every time over thresh, if the meta needed a pure healing soraka wins over thresh. when you just nerf thresh someone else takes his place as the "new op" instead of actually creating choices for supports.
They have just nerfed thresh life four times...
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On June 24 2014 08:36 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 08:13 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best. How is he not strictly better? Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate... But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool. Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either. if the meta required a champion that was good at peel and shields/healing janna wins that every time over thresh, if the meta needed a pure healing soraka wins over thresh. when you just nerf thresh someone else takes his place as the "new op" instead of actually creating choices for supports. They have just nerfed thresh life four times...
And it is not enough. His kit needs to have significant trade offs, 'weaknesses', if you will.
Riot should have just Olafed him.
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On June 24 2014 08:36 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 08:13 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best. How is he not strictly better? Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate... But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool. Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either. if the meta required a champion that was good at peel and shields/healing janna wins that every time over thresh, if the meta needed a pure healing soraka wins over thresh. when you just nerf thresh someone else takes his place as the "new op" instead of actually creating choices for supports. They have just nerfed thresh life four times...
They could get rid of his flay passive and replace with a little bit of base AD and he'd still be good
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I actually think he should be melee range. That will put him in a good spot IMO.
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On June 24 2014 07:41 Kinie wrote:
Pretty sure the current rankings for supports are as follows:
Thresh > Braum > Leona = Morgana = Annie > Nami > Soraka > Sona, anything below Sona is trash atm and shouldn't even be considered.
Karma...?
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On June 24 2014 08:38 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 08:36 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 08:13 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best. How is he not strictly better? Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate... But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool. Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either. if the meta required a champion that was good at peel and shields/healing janna wins that every time over thresh, if the meta needed a pure healing soraka wins over thresh. when you just nerf thresh someone else takes his place as the "new op" instead of actually creating choices for supports. They have just nerfed thresh life four times... And it is not enough. His kit needs to have significant trade offs, 'weaknesses', if you will. Riot should have just Olafed him.
If they wanted him to have weaknesses they needed to design him that way. Lol.
All he doesn't have is a heal. He is the Lee Sin of supports.
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On June 24 2014 08:46 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 08:38 Sufficiency wrote:On June 24 2014 08:36 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 08:13 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best. How is he not strictly better? Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate... But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool. Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either. if the meta required a champion that was good at peel and shields/healing janna wins that every time over thresh, if the meta needed a pure healing soraka wins over thresh. when you just nerf thresh someone else takes his place as the "new op" instead of actually creating choices for supports. They have just nerfed thresh life four times... And it is not enough. His kit needs to have significant trade offs, 'weaknesses', if you will. Riot should have just Olafed him. If they wanted him to have weaknesses they needed to design him that way. Lol. All he doesn't have is a heal. He is the Lee Sin of supports.
Not having a heal is not a weakness. Especially when he does sort of have a shield.
Melee range Thresh is a pretty good start. With his kit, he is very strong in teamfights. He needs a laning phase nerf.
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On June 24 2014 08:55 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 08:46 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 08:38 Sufficiency wrote:On June 24 2014 08:36 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 08:28 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 08:13 iCanada wrote:On June 24 2014 07:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 24 2014 06:59 cLutZ wrote:
Did you really just write that the #1 pro support, 100% pick/Ban in ogn knockout stage and ogn masters finals; is for pub stomping? he's common because he's useful. he doesn't outshine anyone else that tries to fulfill a similar role. he's just useful. He's not strictly better than anyone for any other reason than he fits the meta the best. How is he not strictly better? Sure maybe blitz has sexier hooks, and maybe janna has sexier peel, maybe Sona is better at zoning kids early game, and maybe leona has a better aoe initiate... But thresh is the only one who can do all that shit at the same time, and he does them all at a strong / elite level compared to most of the champion pool. Have you ever been miffed because some idiot first picked thresh? No? Me either. if the meta required a champion that was good at peel and shields/healing janna wins that every time over thresh, if the meta needed a pure healing soraka wins over thresh. when you just nerf thresh someone else takes his place as the "new op" instead of actually creating choices for supports. They have just nerfed thresh life four times... And it is not enough. His kit needs to have significant trade offs, 'weaknesses', if you will. Riot should have just Olafed him. If they wanted him to have weaknesses they needed to design him that way. Lol. All he doesn't have is a heal. He is the Lee Sin of supports. Not having a heal is not a weakness. Especially when he does sort of have a shield. Melee range Thresh is a pretty good start. With his kit, he is very strong in teamfights. He needs a laning phase nerf.
I have always felt the problem with thresh is that he is too well designed. Every ability he has is so good that you could base a whole character on it. Nothing about him is vanilla and I would be really sad to see any of his effects leave the game but at the end of the day balance is more important than my feelings so they either need to nerf him or step up their game on reboots.
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120+ MR, full AP Nidalee still dealing more than a third of my HP late game (something like 700+ at max range, I completed Locket for ~135 MR and mid-range spears still did 550+ to me prior to the last fight x) ). She doesn't instawin a fight with a single spear anymore but she's still way more viable at it than I'd have thought when going full AP.
Also what a bitch Quinn's E is. I know playing Vi is a really bad metric since she's ridden with glitches and makes so many things worse (new one was a Wukong autoing me during the suppression of my ult, that killed me instead of him being cc'd and me receiving the shield at the end of the animation x) ). Her E received an interrupt as a way to avoid stuff like Volibear, Singed, Udyr, Xin, etc. screwing with her but between reaction times, input lag and the duration of the interrupt itself (from when she starts the dash, kinda how Lee roots you before he kicks, to barely before she lands) it could as well read "suppresses the target for 1s" (better than a stun since you can buffer spells with an animation into a stun, like Cait's Q or Singed's E).
It makes it so clunky if you don't have an instant gap closer to react to it (considering she slows you too, I wonder if she can dodge these too by just running away... depends on the range I guess since Vault doesn't go that far), just because of the ground/lifesteal she can gain before the interrupt wears off. x_x
I understand the need for something to prevent Vault from becoming basically suicide, but the implementation is clunky and feels as such when playing against her, in a very stilted way (most importantly the part where she actually "interrupts" you before she begins the animation, it's a dash/movement that feels like a ranged cc all of a sudden).
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On June 24 2014 00:24 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 00:01 Prog wrote:
I don't really see the problem with Thresh. He is not a support I fear in any way whatsoever. Braum on the other hand is still stupidly overpowered. No it's definitely thresh. Janna and the other hard peel/buff supports beat Braum because they ensure their carry has a way to be stronger than Braums and braum doesn't have much of a way to get to the enemy carry and help out. He should also be weak to Alistar but I haven't tested that. I think I am like 6 and 1 against Braum due to this. Braum is also weak against stacked assassins. Morgana is beat by Karma and J4 in a way that should mitigate her power. But post lane her root does last forever which means she is always a pick threat. Her 2-0 is t that strong because there is no one to root and she doesn't bring anything to the tower push game. Her peel depends on how much magic damage the enemy team does. But thresh lanes well against like everyone and has his OP lantern and is a pick threat. He doesn't have weaknesses in lane like every other support does.
I'm a bit late with a response, but that is just ridiculously wrong. I don't think you ever played against decent Braums if you seriously think Janna beats Braum. Your belief that you know how strong Braum is from like 7 games total against him in your low plat (?) elo is hilarious just on its own.
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On June 24 2014 08:29 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 07:41 Kinie wrote:
Pretty sure the current rankings for supports are as follows:
Thresh > Braum > Leona = Morgana = Annie > Nami > Soraka > Sona, anything below Sona is trash atm and shouldn't even be considered. I'd definitely put Nami ahead of Annie and probably Morg/Leona.
in lustboy's reddit ama he had nami in the top tier with thresh and braum.
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I have basically never played against Braums before I think. Thank god.
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EPT
