EPT[Patch 4.7] Braum General Discussion - Page 57
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On May 16 2014 04:53 Fusilero wrote: Trick is a good jungler and his style is functional, if you know how to execute it and trick2g is someone who deeply understands how hard he can go on his champions. When randoms try to imitate without knowing the champions and jungle like he does they'll often look like jackasses and die. This is more or less what was happening. That and he never ganks until he has flare. I know Trick2g can do some cool stuff (I loved his old 21 utility Nasus) but this on someone who barely understands anything past the very basics of jungling. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4122 Posts
TOO as a jungler might not have been amazing, but I do remember some clutch plays from him. TOO as a streamer however is someone you can learn a lot from. He used to explain (don't know if he still does) a lot of his moves and while you might not always agree with them at least you learn about his thought process. | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
<3 Braum | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On May 16 2014 04:58 Diamond wrote: This is more or less what was happening. That and he never ganks until he has flare. I know Trick2g can do some cool stuff (I loved his old 21 utility Nasus) but this on someone who barely understands anything past the very basics of jungling. im not sure about that. He's diamond 1 at least right? you understand the basics nearly better than most at that level. I havnet watched much but of all the udyr players who arent me trick2g and saint were the only good ones ive watched these sort of criticisms feel like a starcraft equiavlent of saying someone doesnt understand the game if he wins by massing units against whatever is supposed to counter them. Thing is at most levels you can win with just massing whatever you want by understanding how to macro up properly. Often avoiding the fancy techs and units allow you to optimize your economy and streamroll worse players. the thing about jungling is if you are good at farming up well the only thing that can go wrong is that you never gank at all and even then at least you're a force in the midgame. and if you do gank successfully you can steamroll a game because of how farmed you are it also increases your window of opportunity because you can dive, do more damage and not worry about counterganks as a rule nearly all players worry too much about overarching principles like lane matchups and jungle matchups and the concepts of things like "helping lanes" which is a laners mentality. It's more important to understand how to take advantage of every opportunity in terms of both farm and champions positioning and cooldowns. The classic jungler trap is to waste time sitting around a lane that wants help and not just ganking the lanes where you can make an impact and just farming if you can't. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Frudgey
Canada3367 Posts
On May 16 2014 04:44 Slayer91 wrote: LOL i used to get madreds and spirit stone all the time its not that bad if it suits your gold curve scip hates it though Sorry to intrude on this conversation, but I'm confused. Are you saying that you get BOTH madreds and spirit stone? Or are you guys suggesting that it's not always optimal to get a spirit stone or madreds in a game? Because if the latter, I was always under the impression that junglers always wanted to finish a jungle item completely. Or do some people just get the machete and then leave it at that? Could someone please explain that to me? Do I make sense at all? Sorry if I don't make any sense and if this is a stupid question, but my jungle knowledge is very, very non-existent at this point. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On May 16 2014 05:16 Nos- wrote: He's saying he gets both, since spirit stone gives you both hp and mp sustain and madreds the clear speed (at least I think that's the reason) they both give clear speed. If you come back to base with 1100 gold, and you mostly want to farm, getting spirit +madreds sets you up to stay and farm fast in the jungle, while getting spirit or madreds with boots+ a ruby crystal or longsword is kinda a meh power spike you ideally want to wait for 1300 gold to finish your jungle item or go back earlier for just spirit +boots sometimes people get dorans blades to get around it but im not sure if thats still popular | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On May 16 2014 05:17 Slayer91 wrote: well i was actually disputing what the basics of jungling are, he was saying you shouldn't watch trick2g because it's like "oh he does stupid things but he still wins" but the reason he wins is because of his good basics and not good strategy so it might actually be a good idea to watch someone like that. Trying to emulate other people could be bad because it might lead to you just doing bad ganks and dying and getting behind while trying to help, the not give a fuck style is pretty effective. This is my understanding of it as well. I would think you would want newbie junglers to focus more on farming the jungle effectively before you move them on to ganking. Otherwise, they overgank, leave their buffs up forever, and are horribly under-leveled. That feels a lot worse to me than a newbie jungler coming out of the jungle in the late game at appropriate level and with a Feral Flare. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On May 16 2014 05:13 Nos- wrote: I think diamond means his friend is using tactics by a diamond 1 jungle main while barely grasping the basics of the game, not talking about trick2g. This. Trick2g knows his shit and that's why it works great for him. This dude up until S4 only jungled (was supp main) WW and Yi buying Wriggles. Yes he bought Wriggles in S3, all S3. My friend is a moron about jungling, and while it's fine to go madstone on some champs like Xin, he's doing it on champs that don't even have mana problems like Noc. That was what I was getting at. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On May 16 2014 04:55 Slayer91 wrote: TOO kind of sucked always though. He played solid and ganked lanes but rarely carried and got high rankings in solo queue. He often played medicore and blamed teammates etc Eh, I always viewed it as him exaggerating for entertainment, like when he talked about Ezreal or Yordles. I was talking about learning to jungle, so solid basics like he had in s2 were more valuables than yoloing with specific champions imo, same as when saying "yeah I can kill this guy" is something you can usually get from experience more easily than when he instead said "oh yeah their jungler's gonna be there because he did route X and I know he's pretty slow, so I'm sure he won't countergank if I go mid but I mustn't lose time or he'll come". Would madred+stone be doable on Rammus, or is it better to just rush madred's straight into tank? | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I was thinking top Jarvan? Who absolutely wrecks Ryze, I need it to be ez because I'm bad. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
sometimes he was obviously semi joking but i spotted a lot of times he wasn't. most junglers are roughly the same speed now anyway, and mid laners often run to the opposite side brush you gank from which gives the other jungler time to countergank anyway. most of the time you want to gank when the mid laner has no real chance to react and escape and that gives the jungler no opportunity to gank unless he was camping the brush. in any case worrying about where the other jungler is by calculating exactly depends so much on variables like what champ they are how they play if they skipped camps or not etc, its only reasonable during the first clear and it doesn't really matter that much comparing to just farming well, staying healthy and spotting taking the easy ganks anyway counterganking is a low probability event most of the time and the best things to do for a new player is to get counterganked and see if you can spot the obvious bait signs, and also it teaches you to be careful about ganking lanes where you can't kill the enemy quickly and also can't 2v2. | ||
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