Actually Soraka shits on Ryze ....

The only problem is you're constantly pushed in, and on top lane thats dangerous, especially on a champ with no escapes.

turdburgler

England6749 Posts

May 10 2014 14:22 GMT

#284

last time i played ryze i struggled vs vlad. whenever we traded he gets free spell vamp and i dont and when we both pop ults he can just sit in his pool while i cant do anything. he also has slightly better mobility, no early game mana concerns and can fulfil the same ap tank roll.

but maybe im just shit.

Sufficiency

Canada23833 Posts

May 10 2014 14:24 GMT

#285

On May 10 2014 23:11 ArchAngelSC wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually Soraka shits on Ryze ....

The only problem is you're constantly pushed in, and on top lane thats dangerous, especially on a champ with no escapes.

How do you win as Soraka exactly?

All you can do is run teleport and push 24/7 and HOPE you don't get ganked. But it's Ryze... if he W's you and his jungler shows up you are 100% fucked as Soraka.

Even pushing as difficulties. Ryze will win trades against Soraka after getting a tear. It's too much damage for Soraka to deal with, not to mention it's magic damage.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

May 10 2014 15:08 GMT

#286

I don't know if it's a counterpick by any means but I had a very easy time as Garen against Ryze on the cusp of plat/diamond. Maybe the matchup gets harder when you face more competent players because this guy was pretty dumb but it's easy to survive if you just rush hexdrinker and then you just wait til 6 and constantly own him when ult's up.

shogeki

Canada75 Posts

May 10 2014 15:17 GMT

#287

On May 10 2014 23:24 Sufficiency wrote:
How do you win as Soraka exactly?

every time Ryze comes into spell range on you in lane, use your e and an auto attack on him to trade poke, q minions if possible, then back out of range until e is up again. You have range over all Ryze's spells so your e will shut down his burst every time. It doesn't matter if you are losing small trades because of your w heal.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

May 10 2014 15:22 GMT

#288

Garen is annoying because his MS buff on Q lasts pretty long, and if Ryze gets caught he takes a really huge chunk of damage. Plus, Garen's going to build tanky so he doesn't receive that much damage, especially if he sees that Ryze's going to unload everything he can mitigate most of it with his W's active.
Later on, until Ryze gets real defensive items if he gets caught he straight-up dies to the ult.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

May 10 2014 16:31 GMT

#289

So, I got Velkoz and tried him in one game, he seemed really fun. I kind of want to practice him more.

What have people been getting/skilling on him? I've heard he's not all that great. His biggest issue to me at first glance seems to be that he wants to max both Q and W right away.

kongoline

6318 Posts

May 10 2014 16:38 GMT

#290

i think he is very strong only issue i have with him is lack of mobility but if he had that he would be OP

LoCicero

1100 Posts

May 10 2014 17:00 GMT

#291

I'm in a rage mood atm. The bugs in this game are pretty unreal. Panth's ult is all messed up this patch and about 1 second longer than it should be, and the damn minimap bug has been around forever and it's killing me inside. Is the minimap bug on my end? Aarrrggg

turdburgler

England6749 Posts

May 10 2014 17:12 GMT

#292

riot enfroces the meta by bugging champs that they dont want played like panth, didnt you get the memo.

NeoIllusions

United States37500 Posts

May 10 2014 20:58 GMT

#293

On May 10 2014 23:11 ArchAngelSC wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually Soraka shits on Ryze ....

The only problem is you're constantly pushed in, and on top lane thats dangerous, especially on a champ with no escapes.

Let's refrain from such hyperbole, especially when it's wrong.
Pre-6, Soraka can push Ryze to his turret but what does that do? With three offensive spells, Ryze has zero problems last hitting under turret. Now assuming equal farm at level 6, Ryze has the potential to all-in against Soraka but the reverse does not apply. Ganks and counter ganks are also severely in Ryze's favor. Going into late game, Ryze still maintains an advantage in scaling.

At best, you can force Ryze to his turret and hope you have jungler back up and harass enough to force him to base thus making him miss exp and gold. But he has great last hit capability and necessary wave clear when he needs it.

Edit: In this instance, Zdra asks a fine question and I'd prefer people who have actually played the matchup first hand (vs Ryze in this case) to share their experience. Those of you who suggested/supported the Soraka vs Ryze matchup, I don't honestly believe you've played this matchup at all since it's horrendously skewed against Soraka. Zero kill potential early, minimal ability to force Ryze to miss exp/gold, and Soraka certainly doesn't scale better in the late game. Even assuming Ryze doesn't run Ignite to kill Soraka, he can still fuck Soraka's team over with Teleport. There's nothing remotely reasonable to consider Soraka a good vs Ryze pick.

Edit2:

On May 10 2014 23:01 Sufficiency wrote:

Show nested quote +

Soraka will get absolutely smashed by Ryze. There is 0% chance she can win the lane.

Likewise Sufficiency, less hyperbole plz. Ryze doesn't smash Soraka either. He has an incredibly hard time killing her without jungler help. It's really an attrition lane that is favors Soraka mid game team fights and Ryze late game team fights.

739

Bearded Elder29904 Posts

May 10 2014 21:05 GMT

#294

I started playing Diana jungle again and I have to say that her mid/late game is moterfucking surprisingly good. You can actually melt people in 2 secs.

NeoIllusions

United States37500 Posts

May 10 2014 21:13 GMT

#295

On May 11 2014 06:05 739 wrote:
I started playing Diana jungle again and I have to say that her mid/late game is moterfucking surprisingly good. You can actually melt people in 2 secs.

Diana Jungle is perfectly fine in solo q. She has solid wave clear and ganks. Just less reliable if you ever miss your Q. You can still Dash and Pull-in but you're missing a lot of damage from no Q.

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

May 10 2014 21:30 GMT

#296

For people who still play feral flare jungle. Is it better to hold onto madreds and go straight into botrk then finish wriggles/ff?

NeoIllusions

United States37500 Posts

May 10 2014 21:38 GMT

#297

For Shyvana, who I've played the most out of the feral junglers, I usually go straight into Wriggle's and Boots, get a Cutlass (vamp for jungling champs, active for additional slow) and build tanky (typically Randuin's and Banshee's). I don't even bother finish BotRK until later.

It's another 1800 gold for BotRK and the slow isn't that much better (25% for 2s vs 30% for 3s) and a bunch of offensive stats that are nice but not completely necessary early on. I'd much rather have a Giant's Belt and Chain Vest instead around 20-30 minutes into the game. The best part of BotRK is obviously the %hp damage but that scales with how the enemy frontline is building. Thus, makes it rather moot for any feral jungler to rush into BotRK; enemy frontline won't have the hp stats to maximize the use of BotRK.

Edit: to theorycraft about other feral junglers, I'd imagine the BotRK rush is actually viable on Yi, who scales amazingly with AS. Noc, not so much. The most common Noc junglers you see on solo q (like Ninjaken) build more offensively than defensively, but I still think BotRK rush on Noc is a poor idea. I'd put Xin in the same category as Shyvana.

nafta

Bulgaria18893 Posts

May 10 2014 21:41 GMT

#298

Actually the difference in slows is HUGE.You steal 30% you don't just slow them for 30.Pretty much all shyvanas I've seen just farm and are useless cause they cant go tanky fast enough and gank much.Unless they get random kills in early/mid.Then she is real terror.

Fildun

Netherlands4123 Posts

May 10 2014 21:44 GMT

#299

On Xin I'd actually suggest going a bit tanky immediately after feral. Assuming you run both offensive marks and quints I think you gain more by building some resists as well.
Of course this depends on the teamcomps and if you're the main tank or not, but yeah that is my opinion in general.
I'd also suggest a brutalizer instead of BotRK occasionally. I feel like bruta gives you more damage when you're diving people without escapes (Twitch, Jinx, Ryze) whereas BotRK gives you more when you're diving Lucians and Lulus or peeling for your ADC.

Edit: On the topic of Ryze, you can actually run out of mana if you're forced to cs under turret for the first 5 levels. Ryze mana costs pre6/tear are actually pretty high if you're forced to spam skills under turret.

Fusilero

United Kingdom50293 Posts

May 10 2014 21:48 GMT

#300

Tbh getting tear very early isn't very hard with ryze, you can start crystal grab a handful of CS. Go back and TP onto turret with tear without losing too much XP and CS.