EPT[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 74
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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UnKooL
Korea (South)1667 Posts
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
Tempest dealing physical damage is unnecessary as well. It only matters if Lee builds Last Whisper or brutalizer so it's an overally nerf to tanky Lee. It's not like Tempest/Cripple is ever his main source of damage anyway. Never have I heard a Lee saying "I wish my E deals physical damage so it makes use of my armor pen." | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On March 08 2014 07:30 iCanada wrote: Why did they have him stop playing Jungle anyway? Dont make sense. Saint missing smite was more common than him hitting it lol | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:24 Sufficiency wrote: LOL 100 Energy on Safeguard. LOLOLOLOL actually wait nvm but iono that seems like overkill no more ward hop sonic wave escapes no more big plays | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:33 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Give Lee more attack speed, nerf his mobility. Now he's a melee Champ with attack speed but no mobility to utilize it. Oh but let's not forget that flurry only applies for 2 autoattack! The more AS it gives, the more redundant it becomes because of it's limited by cooldown and energy cost. Tempest dealing physical damage is unnecessary as well. It only matters if Lee builds Last Whisper or brutalizer so it's an overally nerf to tanky Lee. It's not like Tempest/Cripple is ever his main source of damage anyway. Never have I heard a Lee saying "I wish my E deals physical damage so it makes use of my armor pen." No. The point is that you need to cast a spell every 2 auto attacks to maintain his attack speed buff. So you need to manage your resources really well by spacing out your spells or you will lose DPS and/or lose too much Energy AND lose DPS. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On March 08 2014 16:50 wei2coolman wrote:The main problem is that they're even thinking about touching Lee Sin. It would imply they don't like where he's at, which is hilarious because this the mildest Lee Sin has been in the past year. And yet he's still ranked up there with Vi and Elise in the perceived upper tier of competitive jungler picks. If so, how is it fair that the other two get nerf while Lee Sin doesn't get at least looked at? I'm not saying I agree with what Riot intends to do. Hell, I only skimmed it for the changes while ignoring the context and couldn't even tell you any of the changes outside of more attack speed. I just think there's a cognitive disconnect with labeling Lee Sin as "untouchable." | ||
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Omnishroud
1073 Posts
On March 08 2014 17:53 FinestHour wrote: actually wait nvm but iono that seems like overkill no more ward hop sonic wave escapes no more big plays This is exactly why he is being nerfed and its absolute bullshit. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On March 08 2014 18:04 Gahlo wrote: And yet he's still ranked up there with Vi and Elise in the perceived upper tier of competitive jungler picks. If so, how is it fair that the other two get nerf while Lee Sin doesn't get at least looked at? I'm not saying I agree with what Riot intends to do. Hell, I only skimmed it for the changes while ignoring the context and couldn't even tell you any of the changes outside of more attack speed. I just think there's a cognitive disconnect with labeling Lee Sin as "untouchable." I disagree with Lee being even close to the same tier as Vi and Elise. Elise isn't even that strong I feel. Vi/Wukong/Pantheon are the top three right now in my opinion with Nocturne coming in fourth even though he isn't played. Gank phase is just so crucial to the game right now, more so than teamfights. | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On March 08 2014 18:32 IMoperator wrote: riot trying so hard to make junglers like naut/maokai viable with all these early game nerfs lol. Nautilus is a beast... used to be my main. Also Astronaut skin is awesome. I like his kit to be honest  | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
I understand that Riot's balancing philosophy is to fun size everything and nerf and homogenize all power levels. But honestly, the direction they're taking the game is just simply bad. They've fallen into this pattern of over-nerfing popular champions then completely reworking them because they got over nerfed and justifying it by simply saying "this champion's kit was toxic." I honestly don't understand Riot's fascination of wanting to push out unnecessary reworks when all they have to do is revert past buffs/nerfs. On March 08 2014 17:32 UnKooL wrote: Wait, when Ghostclawer joined Riot was it the game balance department? Or did he get hired in to a different position than what he used be in WoW. It looks like hes lead designer so I'm guessing his philosophy in approaching the design of the game influences game balance right? He was hired to be a part of Riot's balance team. I dunno how big of an influence he has though. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On March 08 2014 19:32 Ryuu314 wrote: Lee's been crowded out in the jungle as of late. He's seeing nowhere near the amount of pick/bans as he used to. Nowadays, Vi, Pantheon, Wukong, Elise, heck even Eve see as much if not more play than Lee Sin. The jungle meta is much healthier than it used to be (ignoring Elise ofc...) I understand that Riot's balancing philosophy is to fun size everything and nerf and homogenize all power levels. But honestly, the direction they're taking the game is just simply bad. They've fallen into this pattern of over-nerfing popular champions then completely reworking them because they got over nerfed and justifying it by simply saying "this champion's kit was toxic." I honestly don't understand Riot's fascination of wanting to push out unnecessary reworks when all they have to do is revert past buffs/nerfs. He was hired to be a part of Riot's balance team. I dunno how big of an influence he has though. Lee is like 50% more popular then the next most popular jungler... | ||
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silencefc
United States875 Posts
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On March 08 2014 19:43 GolemMadness wrote: Lee is like 50% more popular then the next most popular jungler... I'm ignoring OGN Winter since that was played purely on 3.1X patches. According to Leagupedia, most popular junglers in order in NA LCS (pick/ban in brackets): Elise (100%) Vi (58%) Pantheon (50.7%) Lee Sin (34.8%) Wukong (24.6%) EU LCS Elise (92.5%) Lee Sin (66.3%) Pantheon (48.8%) Vi (47.6%) Eve (40%) So, yea, Lee Sin still sees significant play, but it's far far less than he used to considering that towards the end of S3 every game had Elise/Lee Sin pick/banned. Interesting tidbit: in NA LCS, Lee Sin has actually been seeing more play in the last three weeks than his overall average, whereas in EU LCS he's seeing considerably less play than his overall average. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On March 08 2014 19:48 silencefc wrote: What changes did Lee go through since and before S3 Allstars? Right before then nobody played Lee, even Diamondprox didn't think he was good, until InSec literally pulled the InSec. I'm pretty sure Lee Sin was seeing significant play before All Stars. He has been practically untouched since January 2013 which was a nerf patch that removed armor from W and lowered the slow + range on his E. Lee Sin has seen only nerfs since May 2011. Like, I can concede that Riot could probably justify some additional nerfs to Lee Sin given their balance philosophy plus the fact that he's still a reasonably strong and popular jungler. But to "rework" him is just absurd. | ||
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