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[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 74

Forum Index > LoL General
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EU LCS Week 8 Review
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
March 08 2014 08:03 GMT
#1461
Nerfing Lee does make zero sense. There SHOULD be champions that have to get stuff done early to be relevant as the game progresses. It adds strategic depth to the game.
Writer@WriterYamato
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 08 2014 08:24 GMT
#1462
LOL 100 Energy on Safeguard. LOLOLOLOL
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
UnKooL
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1667 Posts
March 08 2014 08:32 GMT
#1463
Wait, when Ghostclawer joined Riot was it the game balance department? Or did he get hired in to a different position than what he used be in WoW. It looks like hes lead designer so I'm guessing his philosophy in approaching the design of the game influences game balance right?
LoL: UnKooL and SoloQFiendUnKooL, SC2: UnKooL
AsianEcksDragon
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1036 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 08:46:58
March 08 2014 08:33 GMT
#1464
Give Lee more attack speed, nerf his mobility. Now he's a melee Champ with attack speed but no mobility to utilize it. Oh but let's not forget that flurry only applies for 2 autoattack! The more AS it gives, the more redundant it becomes because of it's limited by cooldown and energy cost.

Tempest dealing physical damage is unnecessary as well. It only matters if Lee builds Last Whisper or brutalizer so it's an overally nerf to tanky Lee. It's not like Tempest/Cripple is ever his main source of damage anyway. Never have I heard a Lee saying "I wish my E deals physical damage so it makes use of my armor pen."
神は乗り越えられる試練しか与えない
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
March 08 2014 08:45 GMT
#1465
Lee is one of the best designed and most balanced champions in the game. The fact that they want to change him to make him the same as everyone else is just idiotic.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
March 08 2014 08:48 GMT
#1466
On March 08 2014 07:30 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 07:22 GolemMadness wrote:
Saint steps down as support > instantly gets challenger again playing mostly jungle. It was meant to be.


Why did they have him stop playing Jungle anyway?

Dont make sense.

Saint missing smite was more common than him hitting it lol
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 08:54:20
March 08 2014 08:53 GMT
#1467
On March 08 2014 17:24 Sufficiency wrote:
LOL 100 Energy on Safeguard. LOLOLOLOL


actually wait nvm but iono that seems like overkill no more ward hop sonic wave escapes no more big plays
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 08 2014 08:57 GMT
#1468
On March 08 2014 17:33 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
Give Lee more attack speed, nerf his mobility. Now he's a melee Champ with attack speed but no mobility to utilize it. Oh but let's not forget that flurry only applies for 2 autoattack! The more AS it gives, the more redundant it becomes because of it's limited by cooldown and energy cost.

Tempest dealing physical damage is unnecessary as well. It only matters if Lee builds Last Whisper or brutalizer so it's an overally nerf to tanky Lee. It's not like Tempest/Cripple is ever his main source of damage anyway. Never have I heard a Lee saying "I wish my E deals physical damage so it makes use of my armor pen."


No. The point is that you need to cast a spell every 2 auto attacks to maintain his attack speed buff. So you need to manage your resources really well by spacing out your spells or you will lose DPS and/or lose too much Energy AND lose DPS.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 09:05:41
March 08 2014 09:04 GMT
#1469
On March 08 2014 16:50 wei2coolman wrote:The main problem is that they're even thinking about touching Lee Sin. It would imply they don't like where he's at, which is hilarious because this the mildest Lee Sin has been in the past year.
And yet he's still ranked up there with Vi and Elise in the perceived upper tier of competitive jungler picks. If so, how is it fair that the other two get nerf while Lee Sin doesn't get at least looked at?

I'm not saying I agree with what Riot intends to do. Hell, I only skimmed it for the changes while ignoring the context and couldn't even tell you any of the changes outside of more attack speed. I just think there's a cognitive disconnect with labeling Lee Sin as "untouchable."
Omnishroud
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
1073 Posts
March 08 2014 09:17 GMT
#1470
On March 08 2014 17:53 FinestHour wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 17:24 Sufficiency wrote:
LOL 100 Energy on Safeguard. LOLOLOLOL


actually wait nvm but iono that seems like overkill no more ward hop sonic wave escapes no more big plays


This is exactly why he is being nerfed and its absolute bullshit.
Omni = Capped (RIP TL Account) - LoL EUW: Capped92 - EU Bnet: Capped#1137 - Steam: Capped92
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
March 08 2014 09:32 GMT
#1471
riot trying so hard to make junglers like naut/maokai viable with all these early game nerfs lol.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
March 08 2014 09:41 GMT
#1472
On March 08 2014 18:04 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 16:50 wei2coolman wrote:The main problem is that they're even thinking about touching Lee Sin. It would imply they don't like where he's at, which is hilarious because this the mildest Lee Sin has been in the past year.
And yet he's still ranked up there with Vi and Elise in the perceived upper tier of competitive jungler picks. If so, how is it fair that the other two get nerf while Lee Sin doesn't get at least looked at?

I'm not saying I agree with what Riot intends to do. Hell, I only skimmed it for the changes while ignoring the context and couldn't even tell you any of the changes outside of more attack speed. I just think there's a cognitive disconnect with labeling Lee Sin as "untouchable."

I disagree with Lee being even close to the same tier as Vi and Elise. Elise isn't even that strong I feel. Vi/Wukong/Pantheon are the top three right now in my opinion with Nocturne coming in fourth even though he isn't played. Gank phase is just so crucial to the game right now, more so than teamfights.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
March 08 2014 10:26 GMT
#1473
On March 08 2014 18:32 IMoperator wrote:
riot trying so hard to make junglers like naut/maokai viable with all these early game nerfs lol.

Nautilus is a beast... used to be my main. Also Astronaut skin is awesome. I like his kit to be honest
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 10:34:11
March 08 2014 10:32 GMT
#1474
Lee's been crowded out in the jungle as of late. He's seeing nowhere near the amount of pick/bans as he used to. Nowadays, Vi, Pantheon, Wukong, Elise, heck even Eve see as much if not more play than Lee Sin. The jungle meta is much healthier than it used to be (ignoring Elise ofc...)

I understand that Riot's balancing philosophy is to fun size everything and nerf and homogenize all power levels. But honestly, the direction they're taking the game is just simply bad. They've fallen into this pattern of over-nerfing popular champions then completely reworking them because they got over nerfed and justifying it by simply saying "this champion's kit was toxic." I honestly don't understand Riot's fascination of wanting to push out unnecessary reworks when all they have to do is revert past buffs/nerfs.
On March 08 2014 17:32 UnKooL wrote:
Wait, when Ghostclawer joined Riot was it the game balance department? Or did he get hired in to a different position than what he used be in WoW. It looks like hes lead designer so I'm guessing his philosophy in approaching the design of the game influences game balance right?

He was hired to be a part of Riot's balance team. I dunno how big of an influence he has though.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
March 08 2014 10:35 GMT
#1475
Riot talking about toxic kits and anti-fun when nidalee still exists and lee sin taking priority over her is one of the cutest things ever.
Glorious SEA doto
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
March 08 2014 10:43 GMT
#1476
On March 08 2014 19:32 Ryuu314 wrote:
Lee's been crowded out in the jungle as of late. He's seeing nowhere near the amount of pick/bans as he used to. Nowadays, Vi, Pantheon, Wukong, Elise, heck even Eve see as much if not more play than Lee Sin. The jungle meta is much healthier than it used to be (ignoring Elise ofc...)

I understand that Riot's balancing philosophy is to fun size everything and nerf and homogenize all power levels. But honestly, the direction they're taking the game is just simply bad. They've fallen into this pattern of over-nerfing popular champions then completely reworking them because they got over nerfed and justifying it by simply saying "this champion's kit was toxic." I honestly don't understand Riot's fascination of wanting to push out unnecessary reworks when all they have to do is revert past buffs/nerfs.
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 17:32 UnKooL wrote:
Wait, when Ghostclawer joined Riot was it the game balance department? Or did he get hired in to a different position than what he used be in WoW. It looks like hes lead designer so I'm guessing his philosophy in approaching the design of the game influences game balance right?

He was hired to be a part of Riot's balance team. I dunno how big of an influence he has though.


Lee is like 50% more popular then the next most popular jungler...
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
silencefc
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States875 Posts
March 08 2014 10:48 GMT
#1477
What changes did Lee go through since and before S3 Allstars? Right before then nobody played Lee, even Diamondprox didn't think he was good, until InSec literally pulled the InSec.
Slice like a goddamn hammer.
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
March 08 2014 10:53 GMT
#1478
For obvious reasons I'd rather play Lee when playing with friends so that I can do big plays instead of carrying with some point and click jungler.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
March 08 2014 10:57 GMT
#1479
On March 08 2014 19:43 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2014 19:32 Ryuu314 wrote:
Lee's been crowded out in the jungle as of late. He's seeing nowhere near the amount of pick/bans as he used to. Nowadays, Vi, Pantheon, Wukong, Elise, heck even Eve see as much if not more play than Lee Sin. The jungle meta is much healthier than it used to be (ignoring Elise ofc...)

I understand that Riot's balancing philosophy is to fun size everything and nerf and homogenize all power levels. But honestly, the direction they're taking the game is just simply bad. They've fallen into this pattern of over-nerfing popular champions then completely reworking them because they got over nerfed and justifying it by simply saying "this champion's kit was toxic." I honestly don't understand Riot's fascination of wanting to push out unnecessary reworks when all they have to do is revert past buffs/nerfs.
On March 08 2014 17:32 UnKooL wrote:
Wait, when Ghostclawer joined Riot was it the game balance department? Or did he get hired in to a different position than what he used be in WoW. It looks like hes lead designer so I'm guessing his philosophy in approaching the design of the game influences game balance right?

He was hired to be a part of Riot's balance team. I dunno how big of an influence he has though.


Lee is like 50% more popular then the next most popular jungler...

I'm ignoring OGN Winter since that was played purely on 3.1X patches.

According to Leagupedia, most popular junglers in order in NA LCS (pick/ban in brackets):
Elise (100%)
Vi (58%)
Pantheon (50.7%)
Lee Sin (34.8%)
Wukong (24.6%)

EU LCS
Elise (92.5%)
Lee Sin (66.3%)
Pantheon (48.8%)
Vi (47.6%)
Eve (40%)

So, yea, Lee Sin still sees significant play, but it's far far less than he used to considering that towards the end of S3 every game had Elise/Lee Sin pick/banned. Interesting tidbit: in NA LCS, Lee Sin has actually been seeing more play in the last three weeks than his overall average, whereas in EU LCS he's seeing considerably less play than his overall average.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-08 11:02:54
March 08 2014 11:01 GMT
#1480
On March 08 2014 19:48 silencefc wrote:
What changes did Lee go through since and before S3 Allstars? Right before then nobody played Lee, even Diamondprox didn't think he was good, until InSec literally pulled the InSec.

I'm pretty sure Lee Sin was seeing significant play before All Stars. He has been practically untouched since January 2013 which was a nerf patch that removed armor from W and lowered the slow + range on his E. Lee Sin has seen only nerfs since May 2011.

Like, I can concede that Riot could probably justify some additional nerfs to Lee Sin given their balance philosophy plus the fact that he's still a reasonably strong and popular jungler. But to "rework" him is just absurd.
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