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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On March 08 2014 00:22 739 wrote: Team builder is for normal games or ranked as well ? Team builder is an entirely separate queue that if I read correctly acts like BP normals when you get in. Since it's a separate queue though you will only be paired against other team builder teams. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 07 2014 23:29 TheYango wrote: I think the point is that Monte's basically trying to say that if both sides played perfectly, a single set of starting conditions for a game would produce a deterministic outcome. Which I think is absolutely ludicrous, and I think that's the point xes is trying to make as well. It's not that perfect play can't exist, it's that Monte's ideas about what perfect play is are incredibly off the mark. The Poker example is pretty apt, because Monte's assertion that perfect play results in an 11 tower 0 kill game is like saying perfect play in Poker means always folding statistically weak hands and that no hand in hold 'em should progress past the flop. Which is obviously ridiculous. Of course its poker. Last season c9 lost 3 games, and in two of those they guy first blooded pre 130 because of clever nonstandard wards. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On March 07 2014 23:29 TheYango wrote: I think the point is that Monte's basically trying to say that if both sides played perfectly, a single set of starting conditions for a game would produce a deterministic outcome. Which I think is absolutely ludicrous, and I think that's the point xes is trying to make as well. It's not that perfect play can't exist, it's that Monte's ideas about what perfect play is are incredibly off the mark. The Poker example is pretty apt, because Monte's assertion that perfect play results in an 11 tower 0 kill game is like saying perfect play in Poker means always folding statistically weak hands and that no hand in hold 'em should progress past the flop. Which is obviously ridiculous. Perfect play is near impossible. I like to think of it, as how you manage to execute the strategy of the 5 picks you decided to go for. At professional level it is determined by a mixture of coordination and setup. You have 3 phases of the game (early, mid, late-game). Judging the development of the scene, it's clear to see how much of an impact some teams can get by making "perfect plays" early-game with a late-game composition and thereby completely shutting down the enemy team's chances of winning, resulting in those ridiculous early-deny where one team will be 11 kills up with 4-5 towers, 2-3 drakes while the enemy team has like 1 tower, no drakes and 3-4 kills (and those kills are usually random shut downs, when the winning team overextend ). | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On March 07 2014 23:29 TheYango wrote: I think the point is that Monte's basically trying to say that if both sides played perfectly, a single set of starting conditions for a game would produce a deterministic outcome. Which I think is absolutely ludicrous, and I think that's the point xes is trying to make as well. It's not that perfect play can't exist, it's that Monte's ideas about what perfect play is are incredibly off the mark. The Poker example is pretty apt, because Monte's assertion that perfect play results in an 11 tower 0 kill game is like saying perfect play in Poker means always folding statistically weak hands and that no hand in hold 'em should progress past the flop. Which is obviously ridiculous. I take the even stronger approach that Goumindong objects to precisely for the reason that economists (and I say this having done research at the Chicago Booth School of Business) + Show Spoiler + herpa derp lets drop credentials because that's how you prove your point in an argument right herpaderpa Sure, just as in poker, there are strong expected value plays, but that by no means is any standard of ideal or perfect play. My reference to stability is that League is a very nonlinear game, with slight perturbations in conditions having a much greater influence on the outcome of the game such that the notion of trying to define perfect play is very much meaningless. From the standpoint of a omniscient time-dilating observer, maybe it would be appropriate to ascertain the "perfect" or even "best" play in the situation (ignoring the fact that most omniscient time-dilating observers are awful at this game), but that's completely removed from being able to create those decision and execute them in game, where even given perfect execution and instantaneous rational decision making, the tail error in expectation assessment is going to run any semblance of "perfect play" out of the zoo. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Supposed to have higher pay-off against AoE teamcomps during teamfights, but look at Locket's and Soraka's popularity and... well... yeah. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On March 08 2014 01:01 Ketara wrote: What are peoples opinions on the Heal summoner these days, I am wondering? A friend of mine insists on taking it into top lane for heal baits. This is in spite of me telling him that barrier does it better. He also feeds like a motherfucker if he falls behind and follows the same assanine build every game. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 08 2014 01:18 Gahlo wrote: A friend of mine insists on taking it into top lane for heal baits. This is in spite of me telling him that barrier does it better. He also feeds like a motherfucker if he falls behind and follows the same assanine build every game. Is your friend silsol? | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
Next item on the nerf board? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On March 08 2014 02:06 Jek wrote: Holy cow. Frost Queen's Claim is stupid. 36m game, 1k+ gold more generated than Thresh's Talisman, I even got it super late. -.- Next item on the nerf board? Sona OP woohoo. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
I wish. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
ehhhhhhhhhhhh | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
Top Wukong going Brutaliser=>Vamp=>Avarice Blade=>Warden's Mail Every game regardless of matchup. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On March 08 2014 02:20 Gahlo wrote: Top Wukong going Brutaliser=>Vamp=>Avarice Blade=>Warden's Mail Every game regardless of matchup. The avarice blade is smart yo, he's fallen behind get the gold flowing to comeback. He is truly the next level theorycrafter god bless. http://en.intelextrememasters.com/news/yet-more-stars-to-see-you-through-katowice/ Caster line up announced for IEM Sjokz/Joe Miller/Deman/Krepo/Froggen/Deficio.....quikshot. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On March 08 2014 00:53 xes wrote: I take the even stronger approach that Goumindong objects to precisely for the reason that economists (and I say this having done research at the Chicago Booth School of Business) + Show Spoiler + herpa derp lets drop credentials because that's how you prove your point in an argument right herpaderpa Sure, just as in poker, there are strong expected value plays, but that by no means is any standard of ideal or perfect play. My reference to stability is that League is a very nonlinear game, with slight perturbations in conditions having a much greater influence on the outcome of the game such that the notion of trying to define perfect play is very much meaningless. From the standpoint of a omniscient time-dilating observer, maybe it would be appropriate to ascertain the "perfect" or even "best" play in the situation (ignoring the fact that most omniscient time-dilating observers are awful at this game), but that's completely removed from being able to create those decision and execute them in game, where even given perfect execution and instantaneous rational decision making, the tail error in expectation assessment is going to run any semblance of "perfect play" out of the zoo. Bullshit. Just because a game is unsolved doesn't mean that there is no answer. And just because a game has systems which are not stationary does not mean that defining perfect play is meaningless. I cannot even begin to imagine why "stuff that happens early in the game has disproportionate impact" would mean "might as well throw your hands up you can't get better" Chess for example is a game in which "there is no standard of ideal or perfect play" by your definition. The game isn't solved, there is no underlying reason why heuristics which work should work, and advantages accrue. Yet we can still build machines which are better than any human, yet humans still have and execute ideas of ideal or perfect play even when using heuristics instead of a "purely rational" search. Now sure you're going to say that "well but we are going to solve Chess" and well, sure given enough computing power we can solve any game like chess. There isn't any reason we couldn't solve any game like league either; fundamentally its just a larger number. And there isn't any reason why heuristics don't produce "ideal or perfect play" just like they do in chess, or poker or X where X is any game. On March 08 2014 01:01 Ketara wrote: What are peoples opinions on the Heal summoner these days, I am wondering? I like it for support when there isn't anyone really good to exhaust or ignite. This is doubly true if I am playing a primarily peel support. If you're not the support though, barrier is better. On March 08 2014 02:09 VayneAuthority wrote: i think it just adds more viability to support so it isn't too bad. a hook or leona can still instawin the game at any point, so good to see that AP can be viable as support too, and they def need more gold to maintain the same power level as our favorite way too CC heavy friends bot Plus the gold you get from objectives and picks which talismans active enables. Its hard to give up especially since a team that does not have talisman is oftentimes completely at the mercy of the team that does when it comes to making plays in the mid to lategame. Talisman ensures that positioning errors are exploitable or defendable conversely. I am not sure how much gold that is worth but it has to be a lot. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
With the more lane-focused supports it's just too big of a loss in the early game, so I rarely play heal anymore. | ||
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