|
|
Australia18228 Posts
On March 08 2014 02:26 Goumindong wrote:
Plus the gold you get from objectives and picks which talismans active enables. Its hard to give up especially since a team that does not have talisman is oftentimes completely at the mercy of the team that does when it comes to making plays in the mid to lategame.
Talisman ensures that positioning errors are exploitable or defendable conversely. I am not sure how much gold that is worth but it has to be a lot.
I think the engage can be negated once people learn to use Frostqueen's active/slow properly
|
Oh. Team Builder doesn't allow you to queue for "whatever role/position" nor does it allow you to enter multiple combinations. Bleh. I thought it did the first time they mentioned it before it went on PBE.
^ na, the AoE won't be big enough to slow everyone on the enemy team.
|
On March 08 2014 02:49 Alaric wrote:
^ na, the AoE won't be big enough to slow everyone on the enemy team.
More importantly the range isn't long enough to prevent someone from getting into hard engage range. It certainly isn't long enough to engage with on its own or long enough to get a hard engage into range. If it was like Leona ult range and didn't get stopped by creeps then maybe.
But as it stands the fact that you can't center it on a team, that it's range is really small (especially if the enemy is running away) and that it is blocked by monsters/creeps makes it comparatively much weaker.
Really they just need to go the jungle route and give all the support gp/10 items the same active and gold generation. You buy one for tank stats, one for offensive stats (AP), and one for utility (cdr)
|
I have yet to try team builder but from my understanding it's essentially blind pick? or do you q for a roll and not roll + champion? the latter seems unintuitive.
|
The projectile speed is more important than the range here. It's pretty slow so you can actually use it ahead of time and play around the radius. If they only have one initiator/catcher (and it's Lulu rather than Malphite) who's probably going to be at the head of their rush, the 1075 range is more than enough to hit them.
The issue comes more from the fact that people usually use Talisman once they're already in range, to make a potential catching skillshot into a surefire one, or to get in point'n'click range. In these circumstances, and adding reaction time, they'll prob already be on you when they get slowed.
^ you chose your champion/skin, then you use dropdown lists to choose a single role (assassin, mage, support, marksman, tank, fighter) and position (top lane, mid lane, bottom lane, jungle). The client gives you an estimate of the wait time (marksmen seem sought-out the most) and you can then queue for a group.
Once you join one, you can still switch summoner spells, runes and masteries, and you see which setup the captain created, which slots are filled and which are still searching. Once 5 people are there, you can check a "ready" state and once everyone is ready the captain can look for a game. He can also kick people (a bottom lane assassin Revive/TP Zilean said in all caps that we weren't funny and he'd kick everyone, which he proceeded to do; I didn't have time to watch the other guys but I assume they had standard picks).
I'm just trying it out to finish leveling my smurf (wtf 85 exp for a 28 minutes loss, you win in 15 you get more than that T_T) so I haven't tried captain-ing yet, no idea if you can say you'll take "whatever" or are forced to specify a role/position for each slot (edit: there's a guy who put "any role" in all slots, but he still specified one top, one jungle, 2 bot, no idea if it's him or if he had to). The system would be better if it let you use several combos (with an "or" clause ofc) whether for what you wanna play or what you wanna play with, I think.
My first game was found super fast but now it's been 10 minutes, either noone plays it, or noone wants to jungle/AD.
|
I guess I'm just a little afraid of having my champion locked in before even entering Q, but I guess I'll have to see when it's live on NA
|
You can choose to "join another group" or "quit [the queue]" so if you don't like the comp you're in for your champion then you can leave that group and ask for another one till you find one that satisfies yourself.
I think I'll just requeue as jungle Garen, it takes so damn long to find a jungler/AD. Only cases where I saw some (apart from the first game) was because they were the captains.
|
Am I blind?
How do I play this magical mode? It sounds like fun.
|
They're beta-testing in on servers by pairs, it was Russia and EUNE last week, I believe EUW and Turkey for 2 days or something right now, then they'll move on the following 2. Not sure when NA's turn is, they said they wouldn't give dates.
|
Well, atleast that better than me being blind.
Rofl.
Been thumbing through client for like 20 minutes.
|
I tried the teambuilder thing once with a group of 3, we had top-fighter, jungle-mage and mid-mage. We were searching for 2 botlane-anything, it only took us 50 minutes to find a game. At least we won. Also when you want to change your role you have to quit the whole thing again and invite everyone again, I'm not sold on it at all.
|
T_T
Quinn is such a bitch to Garen. That guy was playing her for the first time (according to him) and had AP runes and masteries, and it was still soooooooooo obnoxious. I'd kill him (or mostly) if I reached him once, for example if he presses Vault too early, but it's impossible to do a thing if he's playing smartly.
Then again their team was Orianna+Lucian+Blitz (with Gauntlet because Vayne fed hard) + Vi+Quinn.
I need a 1s cd on Garen's Q to clear all these slows and catch up to all these dashes. I also got a lot of opportunities to learn that slow fields wreck Garen because they reapply their slow as soon as he presses Q, essentially negating the cleanse. I still managed to zone them a bit at least I guess.  And some of them had the kidness of joking about it with me.
EUW seems to have troubles, didn't register that game (well, it'll appear later, but means that the server is having trouble right now).
Edit: server was convinced I was in a game, and now he says "busy" when I try to log in, yup, EUW borked. Damn, I'm one game away from level 30 on the smurf, Riot please.
|
yeah quinns one of the hardest for garen
|
I used to play full AD Garen when I would play with my Silver/Bronze friends. It was hilariously fun. Q>E dead, then continue spinning E>R another one dead. Then just run away to try and make the game last longer so you can kill them even more. I am a jerk...
|
Is ahri basically a tier3 pick now that lb is so popular?
|
United States47024 Posts
What the fuck does "tier 3 pick" even mean?
|
|
|
On March 08 2014 06:20 TheYango wrote:
What the fuck does "tier 3 pick" even mean?
I'm assuming "I want an AP assassin, this is #3 on the list."
|
On March 08 2014 02:26 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 00:53 xes wrote:On March 07 2014 23:29 TheYango wrote:On March 07 2014 17:48 Goumindong wrote:
I am not sure what asymmetric information has to do with the existence of "perfect play". Furthermore I am not sure why there must be a certain outcome in order for play to be perfect. On top of this i don't know what "stability" means with regards to a game*. And to top it all I am not sure why gold would have to be a stationary process in order for perfect play to exist.
I think the point is that Monte's basically trying to say that if both sides played perfectly, a single set of starting conditions for a game would produce a deterministic outcome. Which I think is absolutely ludicrous, and I think that's the point xes is trying to make as well. It's not that perfect play can't exist, it's that Monte's ideas about what perfect play is are incredibly off the mark. Look just you can play the same teams with the same comps and get different outcomes doesn't mean that perfect play doesn't exist. It just means that perfect play doesn't always win. Basically, think about League like poker. While poker has sequential turns and league has continuous simultaneous "turns" both league and poker are games of asymmetric information (you know your cards you don't know theirs ) which have stochasticity (cards dealt) and have non-stationary properties which leads to the overall win condition(winning a hand means you have more money with which to bet on the next hand, if winning a hand doesn't change how you bet, winnings are still strictly non-stationary). None of this means that perfect play in poker doesn't exist, it just means that perfect play in poker doesn't always win**. The Poker example is pretty apt, because Monte's assertion that perfect play results in an 11 tower 0 kill game is like saying perfect play in Poker means always folding statistically weak hands and that no hand in hold 'em should progress past the flop. Which is obviously ridiculous. I take the even stronger approach that Goumindong objects to precisely for the reason that economists (and I say this having done research at the Chicago Booth School of Business) + Show Spoiler +herpa derp lets drop credentials because that's how you prove your point in an argument right herpaderpa are mostly garbage. Sure, just as in poker, there are strong expected value plays, but that by no means is any standard of ideal or perfect play. My reference to stability is that League is a very nonlinear game, with slight perturbations in conditions having a much greater influence on the outcome of the game such that the notion of trying to define perfect play is very much meaningless. From the standpoint of a omniscient time-dilating observer, maybe it would be appropriate to ascertain the "perfect" or even "best" play in the situation (ignoring the fact that most omniscient time-dilating observers are awful at this game), but that's completely removed from being able to create those decision and execute them in game, where even given perfect execution and instantaneous rational decision making, the tail error in expectation assessment is going to run any semblance of "perfect play" out of the zoo. Bullshit. Just because a game is unsolved doesn't mean that there is no answer. And just because a game has systems which are not stationary does not mean that defining perfect play is meaningless. I cannot even begin to imagine why "stuff that happens early in the game has disproportionate impact" would mean "might as well throw your hands up you can't get better" Chess for example is a game in which "there is no standard of ideal or perfect play" by your definition. The game isn't solved, there is no underlying reason why heuristics which work should work, and advantages accrue. Yet we can still build machines which are better than any human, yet humans still have and execute ideas of ideal or perfect play even when using heuristics instead of a "purely rational" search. Now sure you're going to say that "well but we are going to solve Chess" and well, sure given enough computing power we can solve any game like chess. There isn't any reason we couldn't solve any game like league either; fundamentally its just a larger number. And there isn't any reason why heuristics don't produce "ideal or perfect play" just like they do in chess, or poker or X where X is any game. Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 01:01 Ketara wrote:
What are peoples opinions on the Heal summoner these days, I am wondering? I like it for support when there isn't anyone really good to exhaust or ignite. This is doubly true if I am playing a primarily peel support. If you're not the support though, barrier is better. Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 02:09 VayneAuthority wrote:
i think it just adds more viability to support so it isn't too bad. a hook or leona can still instawin the game at any point, so good to see that AP can be viable as support too, and they def need more gold to maintain the same power level as our favorite way too CC heavy friends bot Plus the gold you get from objectives and picks which talismans active enables. Its hard to give up especially since a team that does not have talisman is oftentimes completely at the mercy of the team that does when it comes to making plays in the mid to lategame. Talisman ensures that positioning errors are exploitable or defendable conversely. I am not sure how much gold that is worth but it has to be a lot.
Chess, which is a game with no room for execution errors (you can't "fail" at taking a piece, there is no skedasticity), and which strategic decision are make with complete information. Even poker, which has stochasticity, only has first order expectation error. You are drawing very improper analogies and ignoring the crux of my argument, that League on a "play by play" basis is a game where models are meaningless.
I'm not saying that you can't get better at League of Legends and so you should wring up your hands, but I am saying that you're not going to be able to define perfect play in any meaningful way sitting in a chair lecturing birds on how to fly.
|
On March 08 2014 06:20 TheYango wrote:
What the fuck does "tier 3 pick" even mean?
I guess a better question is : is there ever a case where you'd want to play ahri over leblanc?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
