EPTWut...
[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 68
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Wut... | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On March 07 2014 14:29 wei2coolman wrote: Man. I said the exact same thing and I got scoffed at. I said it before yoooooooooooooou | ||
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On March 07 2014 15:47 IMoperator wrote: with all the supports like annie and morg etc., how come lissandra support never became a thing? she was played as a support by Evaniskus in the NA LCS, not very effectively though i think her high mana costs are rather prohibitive | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On March 07 2014 17:09 gtrsrs wrote: she was played as a support by Evaniskus in the NA LCS, not very effectively though i think her high mana costs are rather prohibitive It's hard to keep her passive up to mitigate it too, since you have to avoid hitting minions, lest you invoke the wrath of your ADC. Also has to be in near melee range for hard cc before 6, without tank stats to back it up. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On March 07 2014 16:12 iCanada wrote: I just got kickled out of an ARAM because "someone failed to select a champion." Wut... I think it's broken so all the kicked from champ select notifications say that. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On March 07 2014 13:12 xes wrote: Yes my point was that MonteCristo is delusional because his idea of "perfect" play isn't even "perfect" and the notion of "perfect play" is garbage in a game of asymmetric information. More importnatly, LoL is inherently more unstable of a game than say Chess or even SC2, especially because the micro-ability of SC2 is lower (compared to BW, so 10 Marauders always beats 8 Marauders), while in LoL tons of micromanagement outplays and all sorts of random stochastic garbage happens (crits and bizzare minion aggro AI). Coupled with how gold snowballs, these minute variations are amplined so that even running the same teams and same drafts into each other over and over (presuming they're evenly matched) you may get drastically different outcomes that are done injustice with simple arithmetic mean % winrates. The idea that League can be deterministically solved in this strategical top down manner is one that Monte will obviously promote as "optimal" play because that is his natural bias coming from his perceived position in the community and his analytical preference. I am not sure what asymmetric information has to do with the existence of "perfect play". Furthermore I am not sure why there must be a certain outcome in order for play to be perfect. On top of this i don't know what "stability" means with regards to a game*. And to top it all I am not sure why gold would have to be a stationary process in order for perfect play to exist. Given that I'm an economist and so these are pretty close to my wheel house I am either very behind on my game theory or you don't know what you're talking about. I am guessing the second. Look just you can play the same teams with the same comps and get different outcomes doesn't mean that perfect play doesn't exist. It just means that perfect play doesn't always win. Basically, think about League like poker. While poker has sequential turns and league has continuous simultaneous "turns" both league and poker are games of asymmetric information (you know your cards you don't know theirs ) which have stochasticity (cards dealt) and have non-stationary properties which leads to the overall win condition(winning a hand means you have more money with which to bet on the next hand, if winning a hand doesn't change how you bet, winnings are still strictly non-stationary). None of this means that perfect play in poker doesn't exist, it just means that perfect play in poker doesn't always win**. This should be pretty intuitive, because if perfect play (or good play if you wanted to call it that) didn't exist then you couldn't be good at poker just as you couldn't be good at league *what it means with regards to an equilibrium is easy enough to determine and while many game theoretical equilibrium are unstable this wouldn't mean anything for a single game **Additionally "perfect play" isn't necessarily the best response to "imperfect play" if you have or can generate a good estimate of the opponents imperfection. (To say this simply, "elements in strategy spaces do not necessarily have the transitive relation" On March 07 2014 11:52 xes wrote: I meant "No" as in that isn't how a perfect game is played out. The perfect game is where the team with the smallest disadvantage FFs immediately, because they know that with perfect play from both sides they will lose. Monte's example is a false dichotomy between "perfect" and "imperfect" play because his ostensible "perfect" game only happens insofar as the team getting outplayed is at a far great disadvantage that could only have been generated from imperfect decision making or execution. League of Legends is an information asymmetric game, so talking about "perfect" play is misleading. No. Monte's example is wrong because perfect play by a losing team is generally recognized to defend objectives to the death because a low probability of success will at some point be better than simply giving the game up without trying. Think of a football game where you're down by 2 points after scoring a touchdown. You have a 99.9% chance to hit a PAT or a 46% chance to get a two point conversion. Just because the expected point value of the 2PC is less than the PAT doesn't mean you take the PAT. The PAT loses with a probability of 100%, the 2PC ties with a probability of 46%. Or, with regards to league; just because there is a high likelihood you die on that inhib turret defense/offense doesn't mean you let the enemy team have the inhib for free. In order for a game to have no kills the team which wins while taking 11 turrets would have to purposefully not kill the other team, because the other team will defend. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:13 oneofthem wrote: lol montecristo in this show with thorin declared "the perfect game of league of legends is 11 towers and no kills." pls who the fuck would watch that What a scrub, 6 towers please. On March 07 2014 14:58 MidnightGladius wrote: As a somewhat random aside, Nocturne' Paranoia hard counters Shen ultimate and Xerath ultimate, hilarity ensues. Despite initial misgivings, I'm finding that the fear change is quite helpful if you position your ganks properly. In teamfights, getting their adc to run back and away from their front line is almost a bonus. Don't think I'd want that, I'd rather have the AD carry still close to his frontline so he can be AoE'd by the rest of your team without them walking into said frontline. It's a bonus if you're able to 1v1 the carry (because it'll pull someone else) but Nocturne stops being capable of that super early, unless you go glass cannon and even then he'll stop being able to do it eventually and the whole time he can he'll get blown up as soon as he gets in range anyway. Makes me sad, Nocturne has a fun kit, and on paper his steroids are supposed to be pretty strong, but he doesn't scale well at all,his teamfighting is really meh and he lacks burst to threaten people when he gets to them so in most situations he's a rather weak jungler. | ||
739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Any tips on Nautilus? | ||
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niukasu1990
1007 Posts
I have heard so many casters didn't know about how legendary iG and LGD are | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On March 07 2014 19:16 739 wrote: I've actually tried Nautilus jungle for the very first time. I was afraid that he has like literally has no damage, because of his kit and damn how was I'm mistaken, lol. Went 3-2-21, ganking lanes post6 was awesome actually, also got first blood on top, raped that silly Darius who tried to dodge dem hook. Any tips on Nautilus? Shield gives you damage. As a tank you'll probably take an initial hit in fights while you're the only real target before they switch to a higher priority. Don't flip your shield on right away and you can end up getting more damage out while being as tanky. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On March 07 2014 19:16 739 wrote: I've actually tried Nautilus jungle for the very first time. I was afraid that he has like literally has no damage, because of his kit and damn how was I'm mistaken, lol. Went 3-2-21, ganking lanes post6 was awesome actually, also got first blood on top, raped that silly Darius who tried to dodge dem hook. Any tips on Nautilus? Many walls, many hooks, many ults, many kills. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On March 07 2014 20:03 niukasu1990 wrote: Are the LoL caster really familiar to other e sports scene? I have heard so many casters didn't know about how legendary iG and LGD are A lot of casters who don't have a solid background in other games can't really be expected to know about legendary teams from those scenes, especially when Asia (more glaringly China) is involved. Hell, most casters don't even know about iG or LGD in LoL, little surprise they know nothing when it comes to another game as well. On March 07 2014 17:48 Goumindong wrote: Given that I'm an economist and so these are pretty close to my wheel house I am either very behind on my game theory or you don't know what you're talking about. I am guessing the second. Huh. No wonder the economy is going to shit. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 07 2014 17:48 Goumindong wrote: I am not sure what asymmetric information has to do with the existence of "perfect play". Furthermore I am not sure why there must be a certain outcome in order for play to be perfect. On top of this i don't know what "stability" means with regards to a game*. And to top it all I am not sure why gold would have to be a stationary process in order for perfect play to exist. I think the point is that Monte's basically trying to say that if both sides played perfectly, a single set of starting conditions for a game would produce a deterministic outcome. Which I think is absolutely ludicrous, and I think that's the point xes is trying to make as well. It's not that perfect play can't exist, it's that Monte's ideas about what perfect play is are incredibly off the mark. Look just you can play the same teams with the same comps and get different outcomes doesn't mean that perfect play doesn't exist. It just means that perfect play doesn't always win. Basically, think about League like poker. While poker has sequential turns and league has continuous simultaneous "turns" both league and poker are games of asymmetric information (you know your cards you don't know theirs ) which have stochasticity (cards dealt) and have non-stationary properties which leads to the overall win condition(winning a hand means you have more money with which to bet on the next hand, if winning a hand doesn't change how you bet, winnings are still strictly non-stationary). None of this means that perfect play in poker doesn't exist, it just means that perfect play in poker doesn't always win**. The Poker example is pretty apt, because Monte's assertion that perfect play results in an 11 tower 0 kill game is like saying perfect play in Poker means always folding statistically weak hands and that no hand in hold 'em should progress past the flop. Which is obviously ridiculous. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 07 2014 23:35 phyvo wrote: Anyone on EUW played with the team builder yet? How is it? Bugged as hell apparently, a few pages back somebody said he queued for mid and was put with 4 people who all asked for AD bot (and went for a quad lane) although it's possible the captain just put that setup and trolled the rest. Others say that there's a bunch of sub-30 being matched with levels 30 despite Riot officiall saying that's not supposed to happen. | ||
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739
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 08 2014 00:22 739 wrote: Team builder is for normal games or ranked as well ? Normals. It's a way to do a normal queue where you're guaranteed to play the champ/lane you want to play, basically. I hear it's still a little bugado though. | ||
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