EPTpls who the fuck would watch that
[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 66
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
pls who the fuck would watch that | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:13 oneofthem wrote: lol montecristo in this show with thorin declared "the perfect game of league of legends is 11 towers and no kills." pls who the fuck would watch that Ye that's why Riot is a genius with NA LCS. Pitch a bunch of derpy teams together in Bo1s so you have super high variance garbage games that make it cool for viewers to see dudes die all day. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:16 xes wrote: Ye that's why Riot is a genius with NA LCS. Pitch a bunch of derpy teams together in Bo1s so you have super high variance garbage games that make it cool for viewers to see dudes die all day. I mean I've seen one sided stomps in OGN like that and they aren't really fun to watch. Also did he mean "perfect" like a perfect game of baseball? | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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phathom321
United States1730 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:20 oneofthem wrote: seems like he doesn't know much about the kills and picks area of the game and choose to just focus on the macro rotations, which he can analyze better. but if you want to be the top top team having understanding of skirmishing is vital. it's basically how skt is so good. Right, but if a team played "perfectly", skirmishing wouldn't even be necessary if the team is just straight up out rotating and pushing the right objectives at the right time. That CLG vs Curse game with what, 8 total kills (?) is a good example. CLG didn't need to be fighting all the time to stay ahead and make it look so one sided because their map presence was so much better. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:27 phathom321 wrote: Right, but if a team played "perfectly", skirmishing wouldn't even be necessary if the team is just straight up out rotating and pushing the right objectives at the right time. That CLG vs Curse game with what, 8 total kills (?) is a good example. CLG didn't need to be fighting all the time to stay ahead and make it look so one sided because their map presence was so much better. I really hate how people use a game in which a blue dependant jungler's blue got stolen and his team was too scared to try to do anything as an example for this.If your opponent is playing bad or gets bopped early game and they are scared it really isn't a big deal if this happens. Like do people even realise that their plan was iwd would take both buffs without small camps and go to lane to defend the tower in the 2v1 asap and he can't do that without blue buff? | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
On March 07 2014 10:38 Vlanitak wrote: Maybe, but Liquid has still (As guitar pointed out) hooked in a variety of big sponsors and made sure his team is supposed to be in the big leagues, if anything citing self preservation and player motives isn't the thing you need to look at when you look at Liquids track record. Instead of thinking of him as a coach or team imagine Curse has a more Red Sox style management Hubert is the owner (John Henry) Liquid is the CEO of League (Larry Lucchino) overlapping a little on the General manager side of things. and Saint used to be the Manager/Coach (overlapping a little on the GM position as well) Stating that Liquids management of Curse gaming (not just League remember) over the last 3 years is questionable citing player/roster changes is vague at best comparing it to what he has done for the Organization over all. yeah my comment wasn't directed at liquid's track record at all, but rather the clg/xdg/quantic examples set that make liquid look good. i think the red sox are interesting in the context of esports for a completely reason though. everything i know about the boston red sox i learned from watching the movie moneyball and tim wakefield games, but if any "sport" is ripe for analytics it is a bunch of nerds playing videogames. who wants to go over tape and record skillshot success percentages with me? | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:27 phathom321 wrote: Right, but if a team played "perfectly", skirmishing wouldn't even be necessary if the team is just straight up out rotating and pushing the right objectives at the right time. That CLG vs Curse game with what, 8 total kills (?) is a good example. CLG didn't need to be fighting all the time to stay ahead and make it look so one sided because their map presence was so much better. No. If you want to take this to absurd levels, with zero decision making errors and zero execution errors, then the team that was outdrafted ever so slightly and didn't rune perfectly would immediately ff the game. | ||
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phathom321
United States1730 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:43 xes wrote: No. If you want to take this to absurd levels, with zero decision making errors and zero execution errors, then the team that was outdrafted ever so slightly and didn't rune perfectly would immediately ff the game. Can you expand past just "no" ? I can agree with your second point and yeah maybe the CLG Curse game wasn't a good example now that I think more about it, but I lean more towards Monte's side of how a perfect game is played out. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:48 phathom321 wrote: Can you expand past just "no" ? I can agree with your second point and yeah maybe the CLG Curse game wasn't a good example now that I think more about it, but I lean more towards Monte's side of how a perfect game is played out. I meant "No" as in that isn't how a perfect game is played out. The perfect game is where the team with the smallest disadvantage FFs immediately, because they know that with perfect play from both sides they will lose. Monte's example is a false dichotomy between "perfect" and "imperfect" play because his ostensible "perfect" game only happens insofar as the team getting outplayed is at a far great disadvantage that could only have been generated from imperfect decision making or execution. League of Legends is an information asymmetric game, so talking about "perfect" play is misleading. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:52 xes wrote: I meant "No" as in that isn't how a perfect game is played out. The perfect game is where the team with the smallest disadvantage FFs immediately, because they know that with perfect play from both sides they will lose. Monte's example is a false dichotomy between "perfect" and "imperfect" play because his ostensible "perfect" game only happens insofar as the team getting outplayed is at a far great disadvantage that could only have been generated from imperfect decision making or execution. League of Legends is an information asymmetric game, so talking about "perfect" play is misleading. More simply, the only way a team gets 11 towers without killing anyone is if the entire enemy team is afk. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:18 onlywonderboy wrote: I mean I've seen one sided stomps in OGN like that and they aren't really fun to watch. Also did he mean "perfect" like a perfect game of baseball? I dunno bout that. The clg game vs curse where aphro got blue buff steal was pretty entertaining | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On March 07 2014 12:15 Shikyo wrote: What is the general consensus on Vel'Koz? Awful, OP? Okay with untapped potential? From what I have seen he is just ok.Is a cool idea and all but I don't think we will see him in lcs or anything. | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On March 07 2014 12:15 Shikyo wrote: What is the general consensus on Vel'Koz? Awful, OP? Okay with untapped potential? General consensus seems to be cool tentacles/low mana costs/good damage/0 mobility ez gank free money pls. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
Singed top and him mid is a prety funny comp if your singed is any good, follow him right into da lazer | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
The ratio of his ultimate also seems awfully low. As a comparison, Anubis in Smite has practically the exact same ult except over 3 seconds and his ult's damage is 1300(+4.5) at max rank. | ||
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scrubtastic
1166 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:43 xes wrote: No. If you want to take this to absurd levels, with zero decision making errors and zero execution errors, then the team that was outdrafted ever so slightly and didn't rune perfectly would immediately ff the game. bullshit there's always an element of double blind decision making: -fog of war. where the fuck is that jungler/roaming dude? you might say "well mathematically this is where the jungler/roamer *should* be" but the jungler/roamer is also thinking about that and may or may not decide differently. sure you can play scared and minimize losses but then you also lose the ability to take calculated risks in order to gain more advantages. if you play like some douchebag is hiding in the bush all the time waiting to gank, you will give up lots of shit. -skill interactions. T1K vs KTB, Ryu on Gragas runs down to the bot lane and chucks his R at Piglet on Vayne. If R connects, Vayne dies. Piglet can avoid it as Vayne but only if he guesses correctly on where Gragas will throws his R and then run/tumble/flash away from it. Turns out that in that game, Piglet outguessed Ryu and the barrel whiffs, allowing Vayne to live at least early on in the game before one team gets a huge advantage, there are lots and lots of double blind decisions to make that far surpass the effects of being slightly outdrafted or having a slightly different rune setup. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 07 2014 11:27 phathom321 wrote: Right, but if a team played "perfectly", skirmishing wouldn't even be necessary if the team is just straight up out rotating and pushing the right objectives at the right time. That CLG vs Curse game with what, 8 total kills (?) is a good example. CLG didn't need to be fighting all the time to stay ahead and make it look so one sided because their map presence was so much better. skirmishing can be necessary in perfect play if you take advantage of vision and other asymmetric advantages, and the other team isn't in their fountain. getting kills is a pretty good way of snowballing a game | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On March 07 2014 12:41 scrubtastic wrote: bullshit there's always an element of double blind decision making: -fog of war. where the fuck is that jungler/roaming dude? you might say "well mathematically this is where the jungler/roamer *should* be" but the jungler/roamer is also thinking about that and may or may not decide differently. sure you can play scared and minimize losses but then you also lose the ability to take calculated risks in order to gain more advantages. if you play like some douchebag is hiding in the bush all the time waiting to gank, you will give up lots of shit. -skill interactions. T1K vs KTB, Ryu on Gragas runs down to the bot lane and chucks his R at Piglet on Vayne. If R connects, Vayne dies. Piglet can avoid it as Vayne but only if he guesses correctly on where Gragas will throws his R and then run/tumble/flash away from it. Turns out that in that game, Piglet outguessed Ryu and the barrel whiffs, allowing Vayne to live at least early on in the game before one team gets a huge advantage, there are lots and lots of double blind decisions to make that far surpass the effects of being slightly outdrafted or having a slightly different rune setup. Congratulations on being able to read context 10/10 would agree with you 100% again. | ||
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