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[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 43

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EU LCS Week 8 Review
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 03 2014 23:54 GMT
#841
On March 04 2014 08:43 silencefc wrote:
You had to play a lot of Hexakill for your MMR to matter since it was a fresh queue.

Everyone I've talked to about it really supported a 2nd support mid or top over a 2nd jungler.


I somehow doubt that. Riot is not that stupid.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
March 04 2014 00:08 GMT
#842
On March 04 2014 08:54 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2014 08:43 silencefc wrote:
You had to play a lot of Hexakill for your MMR to matter since it was a fresh queue.

Everyone I've talked to about it really supported a 2nd support mid or top over a 2nd jungler.


I somehow doubt that. Riot is not that stupid.


I'm fairly certian that your normals mmr was used, just going off of the opponents I got depending on who I played with and what account.
Carrilord has arrived.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-04 00:20:52
March 04 2014 00:20 GMT
#843
I think hexakill MMR is based on a pretty derpy method

I'm D5 and I'm playing with an awful lot of silver/bronzies/baddies so I do dumb shit like full AP support with Meijas and carry

Might be something to do with the amount of ARAM I play maybe?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 04 2014 00:24 GMT
#844
On March 04 2014 07:16 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2014 06:30 Gahlo wrote:
On March 04 2014 06:28 wei2coolman wrote:
On March 04 2014 06:27 Gahlo wrote:
On March 04 2014 06:21 Alaric wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [TL;IA aka Too Long It's Alaric] +
Yeah man, totally the game's fault!

Damn, Hexakill down means it's gonna be harder to get the Garen games going.

After mentioning Olaf as one of the good current junglers right next to Wukong, it made me think, seeing how I've been unable to do well with him in soloQ from top, despite being matched against players theorically worse than me (post-placement and such) and felt like he had become really weak. Not that Riot necessarily wanted to nerf him with the rework (I don't think so), but the circumstances did it for them anyway:
- having less (arguably nowhere near enough) damage when built full tank means he has to get an offensive item, which skews his timings a lot
- resistances being crushed in favour of HP reversed the tendencies and made itemising against him easier, while nerfing his own laning against magic damage champs
- Q slow nerfs make his laning in general really awkward against anything that doesn't need to melee you to harass/fight you, and he gets oom (and thus powerless) even more easily against such opponents
- the meta enforces the "top lane island" with laners joining the rest of the team even later than usual. Because Olaf peaks in the midgame and is actually quite weak lategame (for the same reason that Caitlyn is strong, both of them in spite of their numbers), this, combined with the first point (meaning his midgame peak will be weaker than previously since he won't be able to have damage + both kinds of resistances at that point), makes him usually unable to exploit his peak, and he's close to be on the decline when he finally joins
- CDR itemisation got hit hard too, with FH, SV, Shurelya's nerfs or disappearance, while Olaf relies very heavily on it for both damage and stickiness

On the other hand, in the jungle:
- he gets access to more CDR itemisation thanks to the free 10% for the jungle item
- he can get his levels and some farm way more easily than top where his mana issues and troubles forcing trade (or fighting shovers) give him losing match-ups against most popular opponents
- through objective control and ganks he gets to fight way earlier than from top lane, making better use of his power spikes
- he puts less strain on his team since they can use a top laner who performs better than him, and will use the additional farm better, especially if it goes lategame (like Shyvana)
- lack of mana issues from the jungle thanks to the Butcher passive and big monsters' relics lets him use said mana in ganks instead, without running oom in 2 chases through a long lane

Of course pro play also has the advantage of being able to incorporate him in team comps that'll cover up his weaknesses and provide him with the initiation/mobility he needs to function (especially past midgame).

I feel Olaf is massively underrated in general right now. So many people refused to pick him up after the rework because he wasn't as mindnumbingly op as before. It's like, what did you expect?

He saw some play a couple weeks ago, and he still sees play from jungle occasionally. He's pretty niche, and requires sivir to be used to his full effectiveness.

If only there was a way to fit Ghostblade into his itemization...


There isn't? At least for pros. And players that aren't stomping in soloq.

IMO Olaf's rework turned him into arguably the hardest champion in the game to play effectively, if he doesn't have a perfect team and teamcomp surrounding him. Which is really not what you want out of a toplaner or jungler. He needs a speedboost at all times, because his kit is basically autoattacks and a skillshot slow. He needs to build almost pure tank because when he is ulting, (the only time he can do damage, because he doesn't have a gapcloser + aoe damage like mundo, shyv, renekton, or burst and utility like lee sin and elise, he loses all his defensive steroids. On top of that, knowing when to ult is almost impossible. Montecristo complains a lot in OGN about Nunu picks not being used properly, but Olaf is used just as poorly, if not worse, and sometimes just carries it through because he does have really strong objective control and single target DPS (not to mention Bengi plays him a lot, that does wonders for a champion's win rate).

I was being facetious because people talk about needing a speed boost(he does) and lament the loss of Reverie without mentioning it.
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
March 04 2014 00:27 GMT
#845
On March 04 2014 08:06 phyvo wrote:
Just came across this dude's profile: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/21868457#matches
+ Show Spoiler +
it's diamond 1 on-hit teemo with runaan's


I'm starting to be convinced that no matter what champ or build you pick a diamond player somewhere somehow is making it work in solo queue.


Goodness, the game in there where the Poppy support guy went Heimer mid, with on-hit teemo top, and Qtpie playing Corki must've been interesting...
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 04 2014 00:31 GMT
#846
On March 04 2014 09:20 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think hexakill MMR is based on a pretty derpy method

I'm D5 and I'm playing with an awful lot of silver/bronzies/baddies so I do dumb shit like full AP support with Meijas and carry

Might be something to do with the amount of ARAM I play maybe?


I think it's because you are somewhat an outlier in MMR in a queue that is very unpopular. Considering you are like what, 2-5% of the entire player population, it's really hard to match people similar to your skills in this queue.

Instead, they probably threw you on one side, and the 2nd-5th best players on the other side to compensate.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-04 00:57:38
March 04 2014 00:32 GMT
#847
Na, wasn't really. Teemo was playing super badly and Qtpie got ganked several times in a row, including dives and everything, so it was over pretty fast. Noc went full retard damage build and tried to dive on Pantheon and Lucian with 0 armour items too.

134 exp for a 22 minutes win. More than for a 47 minutes loss. T_T
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-04 00:38:33
March 04 2014 00:36 GMT
#848
On March 04 2014 09:20 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think hexakill MMR is based on a pretty derpy method

I'm D5 and I'm playing with an awful lot of silver/bronzies/baddies so I do dumb shit like full AP support with Meijas and carry

Might be something to do with the amount of ARAM I play maybe?


if you don't play normals your normal mmr is garbage not that hard to understand, diamond/challenger players typically have somewhat low normal mmr because of having to spam ranked to be that high.
Carrilord has arrived.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-04 00:40:45
March 04 2014 00:39 GMT
#849
On March 04 2014 05:34 Slusher wrote:
I really didn't like One for all being on SR, in fact I'd go so far as to say it was a big mistake

I loved One for All being on SR (it was also on Howling Abyss wasn't it?)

Oh and yeah we were plat/diamond/challenger sharking the hexakill queue, it was really funny

Also:
+ Show Spoiler [shameless brag] +
[image loading]
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
March 04 2014 00:40 GMT
#850
On March 04 2014 09:39 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2014 05:34 Slusher wrote:
I really didn't like One for all being on SR, in fact I'd go so far as to say it was a big mistake

I loved One for All being on SR (it was also on Howling Abyss wasn't it?)


you COULD make one with a custom but you could not q for it
Carrilord has arrived.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 04 2014 00:43 GMT
#851
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=445077

I am tempted.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 04 2014 00:46 GMT
#852
On March 04 2014 09:36 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2014 09:20 ticklishmusic wrote:
I think hexakill MMR is based on a pretty derpy method

I'm D5 and I'm playing with an awful lot of silver/bronzies/baddies so I do dumb shit like full AP support with Meijas and carry

Might be something to do with the amount of ARAM I play maybe?


if you don't play normals your normal mmr is garbage not that hard to understand, diamond/challenger players typically have somewhat low normal mmr because of having to spam ranked to be that high.


True, I rarely play normal unless I want to do really, really dumb stuff with friends. I'm talking real stupid, because my 5's team does ARAM in Diamond for lulz. We also probably have a 40% winrate in that cuz no one expects it.

Also A41 on Howling Abyss would be pretty stupid (though absolutely hilarious). Imagine the AOE (like 5 Fiddle). Or on the flip side, 5 WW's who all ult a separate target.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-04 01:01:12
March 04 2014 00:46 GMT
#853
On March 04 2014 07:16 Fusilero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2014 07:13 Eppa! wrote:
Not really a fan of Olaf jungle in nonpremade game, Lulu is popular but unless you coordinate its hard to use her wimsy. Sivir Olaf is still god like though.

I don't think co-ordinating with lulu's whimsy is that hard, maybe early on but soon it'll be generous that even if your reaction is slightly delayed you'll probably have already hit your target as olaf.

The problem is not to put it on him its that it need to be there instantly when you engage so he can zone the adc and mid for 3 seconds while your team wrecks their frontline. Sivir is easier because pressing R means gogogo but if Olaf comes in a second to late he will get chunked to much that you might as well pick Vi, Wu, Xin or J4 who all have more consistent and front loaded utility.


Unrelated:
Played a 5v5 with friends 1 silver 2 gold and one unranked. It is incredibly interesting as i am the shotcaller but i tell them what to do. The 2 gold players and unranked one are all at least plat/low diamond mechanically with their champs as they play a lot of DotA but I pick their items tell them how to play their MU and how we rotate and split push. Since we played Mundo Zed Udyr Sivir Alistar vs a hard engage comp means that once first turret goes down it becomes a rather abstract 1-3-1 split push with Zed bot and Mundo top which changes at around the 20 min mark to Zed top and Mundo bot. I play mostly soloq so generally people understand what they should do at different times in the game but damn is it fun to get together 5 people to play ranked with.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 04 2014 01:02 GMT
#854
Morgana range, aa animation and AS so bad TOO managed to use a red trinket and fail to kill the ward, his last auto cancelled.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
March 04 2014 01:04 GMT
#855
Arranged play is very fun. It's also why you watch LCS, OGN, w/e and LoL actually seems like a beautiful, flowing game where people coordinate and play feels really high level.

Then you want to play, go soloQ and its a train wreck.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
March 04 2014 01:07 GMT
#856
On March 04 2014 09:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
Also A41 on Howling Abyss would be pretty stupid (though absolutely hilarious). Imagine the AOE (like 5 Fiddle). Or on the flip side, 5 WW's who all ult a separate target.


or you could imagine how stupid it would be to play a game of all for one on summoner's rift where one team has an obvious significant advantage over the other but you play the game out you normally would and spend like thirty minutes on a sort-of-funny but not that exciting or fun game instead of just yoloing it and bashing through a really fun twenty-minute loss or stomp.

seriously who the fuck at riot decided to put the all for one queue on summoners rift. did they ever have to sit through an eighty minute ziggs vs lux game before they pushed it out? did they know what they were doing to the world or were they TRYING to crush our souls????
:3
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
March 04 2014 01:16 GMT
#857
On March 04 2014 10:07 Eiii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2014 09:46 ticklishmusic wrote:
Also A41 on Howling Abyss would be pretty stupid (though absolutely hilarious). Imagine the AOE (like 5 Fiddle). Or on the flip side, 5 WW's who all ult a separate target.


or you could imagine how stupid it would be to play a game of all for one on summoner's rift where one team has an obvious significant advantage over the other but you play the game out you normally would and spend like thirty minutes on a sort-of-funny but not that exciting or fun game instead of just yoloing it and bashing through a really fun twenty-minute loss or stomp.

seriously who the fuck at riot decided to put the all for one queue on summoners rift. did they ever have to sit through an eighty minute ziggs vs lux game before they pushed it out? did they know what they were doing to the world or were they TRYING to crush our souls????

5v5 rammus vs ez in SR was pretty interesting when I was playing it out. Got stomped pretty hard in laning phase, but everyone finally got tanky enough to win.
liftlift > tsm
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
March 04 2014 01:16 GMT
#858
so I've stopped banning Kass, no regrets so far, but I'm sure I'll be literally hitler one of these days
Carrilord has arrived.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 04 2014 01:19 GMT
#859
5 Rammus rushing towers with 400+ armour and Tremors destroying the structures at the speed of light.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-04 01:21:34
March 04 2014 01:20 GMT
#860
Carrilord has arrived.
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