On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
Of course. If Amumu misses a Q he is fucked (and this can potentially due to an outplay by the ADC; especially Lucian). Thus in a teamfight I agree with you that Sejuani has way more tools for a more "consistent" performance. But all I am saying is that Amumu is not just press R and win.
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
So your saying, if you're bad. Play Sej, If you're good play amumu?
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
Of course. If Amumu misses a Q he is fucked (and this can potentially due to an outplay by the ADC; especially Lucian). Thus in a teamfight I agree with you that Sejuani has way more tools for a more "consistent" performance. But all I am saying is that Amumu is not just press R and win.
And nobody said he was.
All I said was Sejuani has more tools and is more consistent. I dunno about you, but isn't more tools and more consistent like... always a good thing at high level play?
How many times in BW did we see guys like Flash, Jeadong, Strok, Bisu etc going the less tool cheesy plays style of play instead of the robust, more tools, higher consistency economic fast expanding style of play?
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
So your saying, if you're bad. Play Sej, If you're good play amumu?
I think this is what 5HIT (?) or someone else said a long time ago. Amumu has higher skill ceiling because his Q is more unforgiving.
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
So your saying, if you're bad. Play Sej, If you're good play amumu?
Why play a champion that's more difficult for less reward?
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
So your saying, if you're bad. Play Sej, If you're good play amumu?
Why play a champion that's more difficult for less reward?
How is amumu less award? Stun is strictly better than slow. If you can keep landing Q's, amumu is far more brutal. Especially for picks/catches.
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
So your saying, if you're bad. Play Sej, If you're good play amumu?
Why play a champion that's more difficult for less reward?
How is amumu less award? Stun is strictly better than slow. If you can keep landing Q's, amumu is far more brutal. Especially for picks/catches.
Sej Q is a knock up. Knock up is strictly better than stun. Sej Q width is bigger, making reptitive Qs a lot easier to hit.
On March 03 2014 04:01 Sufficiency wrote: Amumu is definitely not an ult bot. With maximized CDR, his Q has 6 seconds cooldown; he is more than capable of sticking to his target (at least one that does not have an escape, like Ashe Jinx Varus etc.). You ccan zone people really hard while his W + E does a shitload of damage in conjunction with his passive.
Qcd is a difference of .6 seconds. Yes, Amumu's has more range but if you miss it your engage is done without flash, Sejuani not so much. Sejuani can stick to multiple people at once unless they scatter, in which case they're spending more time getting away from you than anything else.
Sej W does a shitload of damage by itself and her E does a better job of turning a zone threat into an engage.
So your saying, if you're bad. Play Sej, If you're good play amumu?
Why play a champion that's more difficult for less reward?
How is amumu less award? Stun is strictly better than slow. If you can keep landing Q's, amumu is far more brutal. Especially for picks/catches.
Sej's slow is an extra utility that Mummy has no answer for.
Sej has a knockup that lasts the same length as the stun and cannot be cleansed.
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling.
Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team?
Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better.
o.o
All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too.
More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi.
That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q.
All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better.
And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad.
bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage.
Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close.
Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD.
Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD.
Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early.
Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC.
The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch.
On March 03 2014 04:35 Ketara wrote: What would you have maxed at level 3? That's 1 rank in each skill.
I don't know how you're getting that damage number from Sej.
And I would much prefer the 1100 range stun, over the 650 range knockup in early game ganks. And post 6 ganks, amumu does way more damage, especially since you have the option to build AP.
EDIT: Ohh, I get where the confusion is coming from. (my fault). When I'm saying he does more damage. I'm talking about when he starts rolling with AP, so usually post 6. But his early game ganks are better than Sej cuz utility of range and cc of Q is better.
On March 03 2014 04:35 Ketara wrote: What would you have maxed at level 3? That's 1 rank in each skill.
I don't know how you're getting that damage number from Sej.
And I would much prefer the 1100 range stun, over the 650 range knockup in early game ganks. And post 6 ganks, amumu does way more damage, especially since you have the option to build AP.
Mummy has a (.7Q+.5E+.8R) 2.0 burst AP ratio.
Sej has a (.4Q+.3W+.5E+.8R) 2.0 Burst AP ratio... as well as an additional AoE over time .6 AP ratio on W.
Sej can build AP just as well if not better than Mummy can.
On March 03 2014 04:35 Ketara wrote: What would you have maxed at level 3? That's 1 rank in each skill.
I don't know how you're getting that damage number from Sej.
And I would much prefer the 1100 range stun, over the 650 range knockup in early game ganks. And post 6 ganks, amumu does way more damage, especially since you have the option to build AP.
Q: 40+4% max HP. W: 120 + autoattack reset at 61.9, total 181.9 E: 60.
Total: 281.9+4% max HP.
Post 6 Amumu does not do more damage. At 6 a Q max Mummy has 405 damage and then 8+1.5% HP per second. Sej has 541.8+4% HP.
Nor does he do more damage building AP. Amumu's total AP ratio is 200% and Sejuanis is 260%.
With the same items on them there is no way you're going to get more damage from Amumu than on Sejuani unless you want to act like you're going to build 500 AP on Amumu and also get enemies to sit next to him for long periods of time without him dying.
Building realistic jungler items Sejuani will be doing more damage.
On March 03 2014 04:35 Ketara wrote: What would you have maxed at level 3? That's 1 rank in each skill.
I don't know how you're getting that damage number from Sej.
And I would much prefer the 1100 range stun, over the 650 range knockup in early game ganks. And post 6 ganks, amumu does way more damage, especially since you have the option to build AP.
Q: 40+4% max HP. W: 120 + autoattack reset at 61.9, total 181.9 E: 60.
Total: 281.9+4% max HP.
Post 6 Amumu does not do more damage. At 6 a Q max Mummy has 405 damage and then 8+1.5% HP per second. Sej has 541.8+4% HP.
Nor does he do more damage building AP. Amumu's total AP ratio is 200% and Sejuanis is 260%.
With the same items on them there is no way you're going to get more damage from Amumu than on Sejuani unless you want to act like you're going to build 500 AP on Amumu and also get enemies to sit next to him for long periods of time without him dying.
Building realistic jungler items Sejuani will be doing more damage.
Ketara, can't count the 60% from W, it not reliable deeps.
You guys seem to have missed the point. Everyone knows mummy is and always has been a fine solo que jungler. However Sej has not always had the same fortune.
The question is has anyone been playing Sej since the newest changes (Spirit Stone + W Bug Fix) and if so what are their thoughts? There is always room in the jungle for two champs that largely do the same thing (S3 J4/Xin, S3 Vi/Noc, etc). Of course one will always be stronger and if mummy is than that's whatever.
I picked Sej the other day after seeing her pop spamming the random button. I played her and found her to be quite strong with the changes and possibly a very strong jungler again. Does anyone else feel this or no? Idc if mummy is better, it's perfectly ok.
EPT
