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On March 03 2014 04:57 Diamond wrote:
You guys seem to have missed the point. Everyone knows mummy is and always has been a fine solo que jungler. However Sej has not always had the same fortune.
The question is has anyone been playing Sej since the newest changes (Spirit Stone + W Bug Fix) and if so what are their thoughts? There is always room in the jungle for two champs that largely do the same thing (S3 J4/Xin, S3 Vi/Noc, etc). Of course one will always be stronger and if mummy is then that's whatever.
I picked Sej the other day after seeing her pop spamming the random button. I played her and found her to be quite strong with the changes and possibly a very strong jungler again. Does anyone else feel this or no? Idc if mummy is better, it's perfectly ok.
Sejuani has been my go to jungler in ranked for over a month now, I am 21 and 11 with her, and I am an awful jungle player. Last patch I thought she was OP as fuck, and this patch she's even better.
Her biggest problem is that she can't really 1v1 or 2v2 the other jungler early in the game most of the time. But usually if she does get caught in the jungle she has the tools to get away, she just can't win a fight.
She also used to require mana pots every back but she doesn't anymore with all the spirit stone buffs. I might buy one my first back now but that's it.
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On March 03 2014 05:00 Ketara wrote:
Sejuani has been my go to jungler in ranked for over a month now, I am 21 and 11 with her, and I am an awful jungle player. Last patch I thought she was OP as fuck, and this patch she's even better.
Her biggest problem is that she can't really 1v1 or 2v2 the other jungler early in the game most of the time. But usually if she does get caught in the jungle she has the tools to get away, she just can't win a fight.
I don't know how big a drawback that is these days. Wukong fits in the same category vs certain junglers (Elise/Lee) and that does not hold him back. Her escape is pretty reliable too.
She also used to require mana pots every back but she doesn't anymore with all the spirit stone buffs. I might buy one my first back now but that's it.
Same in my games, I buy 2 (one on each of the 1st backs) and it's enough. The 2nd one rarely gets uses, but I like to have it for emergency extended team fights. There's also a lot about how Sej pre 6 sucks, that's not really that big anymore. Vi is largely considered a "farm till 6" jungler and that's cool.
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i feel like in this age amumus w damage is laughable,
get 40% cdr and chain start fights with ult is what he is best at. his early to mid game is brutal but later youre gonna fall off. delay this by building sunfire abby tho.'
sorry that post blows. broke my hand so im 1hand typing lolol
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On March 02 2014 15:23 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 15:20 TheHumanSensation wrote:On March 02 2014 14:15 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 14:12 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 13:54 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 12:11 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Ashe is decent. Obviously her laning phase is... well, "average", but she is fairly strong against many fotm top laners that do not have a lot of gapclosers.
So, trundle? Mundo Shyvana lol, yeah no. Ashe gets fucking butt rekt by Mundo and Shyv. Mundo isn't hard, but you are depended on someone positioning correctly to block the cleavers. For Shyvana you obviously need to avoid having her smashing onto you with her R; her W only lasts 3 seconds unless she autos. Shyv does more than fine against Ashe, Burst with R+BotRK+W+E+Q, should wreck an Ashe, maybe needs like a follow up spell from your AP carry. Playing anything without escape is just an iffy proposition. One of the main reason Koreans avoid Jinx despite dem ratios. I'm curious as to how you find Mundo easier than Shyvana. Cleaver beats frost shot at every rank, he has free tenacity, and free long-term movement speed, such that even if you dodge the far cleavers he's likely to get to you. Shyvana typically dives in with her W on, gets stunned for at least half the duration, and then has to slow walk up to you. If your team helps you out at all, I find the stun to be more than sufficient to deal with a single one-chance-gap-closer diving threat. If they don't, then Shyv can probably wreck Ashe if she can get to her (mercs + wardens + cutlass necessary though imo), yeah. Although it is worth noting that while Ashe's ult has a similar cooldown to BotRK, Shyv is less likely to have used her BotRK lately just because of range etc and more likely to have it up for a fight, but this isn't really a point against Ashe. If you're going to bring up Arrow for Shyv, you have to do it for Mundo too.
I don't consider arrow to be nearly as useful against Mundo as it is against Shyvana, but it was my mistake to not make my wording clearer. I think that because Mundo gets free tenacity, and that his speed boost lasts for 12 and doesn't diminish over time, Ashe's ult doesn't shut down his approach nearly as well as it shuts down Shyvana's approach (which is heavily front-loaded on a speed boost and single gap-closer).
On March 02 2014 15:31 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 15:20 TheHumanSensation wrote:On March 02 2014 14:15 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 14:12 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 13:54 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 12:11 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Ashe is decent. Obviously her laning phase is... well, "average", but she is fairly strong against many fotm top laners that do not have a lot of gapclosers.
So, trundle? Mundo Shyvana lol, yeah no. Ashe gets fucking butt rekt by Mundo and Shyv. Mundo isn't hard, but you are depended on someone positioning correctly to block the cleavers. For Shyvana you obviously need to avoid having her smashing onto you with her R; her W only lasts 3 seconds unless she autos. Shyv does more than fine against Ashe, Burst with R+BotRK+W+E+Q, should wreck an Ashe, maybe needs like a follow up spell from your AP carry. Playing anything without escape is just an iffy proposition. One of the main reason Koreans avoid Jinx despite dem ratios. I'm curious as to how you find Mundo easier than Shyvana. Cleaver beats frost shot at every rank, he has free tenacity, and free long-term movement speed, such that even if you dodge the far cleavers he's likely to get to you. Shyvana typically dives in with her W on, gets stunned for at least half the duration, and then has to slow walk up to you. If your team helps you out at all, I find the stun to be more than sufficient to deal with a single one-chance-gap-closer diving threat. If they don't, then Shyv can probably wreck Ashe if she can get to her (mercs + wardens + cutlass necessary though imo), yeah. Although it is worth noting that while Ashe's ult has a similar cooldown to BotRK, Shyv is less likely to have used her BotRK lately just because of range etc and more likely to have it up for a fight, but this isn't really a point against Ashe. I didn't mention Mundo, cuz it was plainly obvious he just walks up and shits on you.
Allow me to clarify, I was responding to you and Sufficiency at the same time, but chose to quote you because you had quoted him. I also kind of blended the responses together, so it wasn't clear at all.
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I don't play sej, so I can't comment on her. As for mumu, I feel like the hard cc provided by his q allows the lane you are yanking for to get off more damage, more reliably (I.e. guarantee your laner hits skillshots). A relatively successful gabk with either has a good chance of bowling flash, but if your laner has hard cc or skillshots then I think you're more likely to get a Jill despite flash as amumu. Also, q->r is not the only way. Do blitz style and flash r into q for assured kills when flanking / positioning warrants. Also I feel like 3 in e into q max is realistic for mumu skill order, but maybe I'm just an oddball.
Please excuse any iPhone typos
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On March 03 2014 06:32 Dgiese wrote:
I don't play sej, so I can't comment on her. As for mumu, I feel like the hard cc provided by his q allows the lane you are yanking for to get off more damage, more reliably (I.e. guarantee your laner hits skillshots). A relatively successful gabk with either has a good chance of bowling flash, but if your laner has hard cc or skillshots then I think you're more likely to get a Jill despite flash as amumu. Also, q->r is not the only way. Do blitz style and flash r into q for assured kills when flanking / positioning warrants. Also I feel like 3 in e into q max is realistic for mumu skill order, but maybe I'm just an oddball.
Please excuse any iPhone typos
Both Qs are hard CC. How does Amumu garuntee a kill better? He has less CC and does less damage.
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Amumu does have a longer engage pre 6. Sej has a longer engage post 6 though.
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On March 03 2014 04:26 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 04:04 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2014 03:42 iCanada wrote:On March 03 2014 03:19 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2014 03:16 iCanada wrote:
Why?
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling. Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team? Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better. o.o All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too. More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi. That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q. All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better. And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad. bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage. Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close. Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD. Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD. Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early. Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC. The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch.
1. An autoattack reset is a faster autoattack, not a free autoattack.
2. Sej Q is actually a small knockback, and her autoattack animation is really slow. Can't always count on getting the reset against an enemy with flash (and if you don't, no AoE damage from W anyway). Also, Amumu usually turns on W then bandages in, meaning that he'll get a tick, maybe two of damage from his W before an enemy, even with flash or an escape, gets away.
3. Amumu deals more damage late-game than Sejuani by virtue of his significantly shorter cooldowns on his Q and E and 100% uptime on W. Plus, Amumu starts dealing his all his AoE the instant he closes the gap while Sejuani still has to close the gap or have already started the fight to get the same effect. By then, half the stun duration has already worn off.
EDIT: There's other stuff too, like the range on bandage toss and its low risk nature versus throwing out a Sej ult and missing because your enemy flashed. Amumu's also better at focusing down an individual target during a team fight because of Bandage toss. I suppose that I'm arguing that, even in spite of Sejuani's slow, that Amumu is better at applying his damage and also focusing it on targets that need to die than Sejuani.
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Sejuani's W is virtually always up too (although if you can't autoattack you lose out on a portion of the damage).
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Mumu is pretty good. I feel like he clears faster than Sejuani, but maybe more tests should be made.
And yeah, mumu clearly ganks way better than Sejuani early, there's no denying it. Sejuani Q range is lower than mumu's Q, and way harder to connect with the knockup part.
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On March 03 2014 06:39 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 06:32 Dgiese wrote:
I don't play sej, so I can't comment on her. As for mumu, I feel like the hard cc provided by his q allows the lane you are yanking for to get off more damage, more reliably (I.e. guarantee your laner hits skillshots). A relatively successful gabk with either has a good chance of bowling flash, but if your laner has hard cc or skillshots then I think you're more likely to get a Jill despite flash as amumu. Also, q->r is not the only way. Do blitz style and flash r into q for assured kills when flanking / positioning warrants. Also I feel like 3 in e into q max is realistic for mumu skill order, but maybe I'm just an oddball.
Please excuse any iPhone typos Both Qs are hard CC. How does Amumu garuntee a kill better? He has less CC and does less damage.
I don't play sej, but amumu bandage is longer hard cc right? (correct me if his is not true). Additionally I feel that the longer range gives you more of an option of leading with it, sure it can still be flashed etc, but as amumu I think you have a higher chance of getting down longer hard cc. And like I say in my post, I'm making the distinction between slows and hard cc for the purposes of brain dead soloq teammates landin their skillshots because let's be real, a giant slow makes skillshots a lot easier to hit, but soloq teammates are gonna find a way to fuck it up, hard cc like bandage means they have to really fuck up to not land skillshots.
Again let me reiterate that I don't play sej, so if her pre6 has similar length hard cc then I apologize
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On March 03 2014 07:00 Cheap0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 04:26 Ketara wrote:On March 03 2014 04:04 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2014 03:42 iCanada wrote:On March 03 2014 03:19 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2014 03:16 iCanada wrote:
Why?
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling. Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team? Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better. o.o All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too. More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi. That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q. All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better. And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad. bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage. Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close. Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD. Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD. Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early. Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC. The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch. 1. An autoattack reset is a faster autoattack, not a free autoattack. 2. Sej Q is actually a small knockback, and her autoattack animation is really slow. Can't always count on getting the reset against an enemy with flash (and if you don't, no AoE damage from W anyway). Also, Amumu usually turns on W then bandages in, meaning that he'll get a tick, maybe two of damage from his W before an enemy, even with flash or an escape, gets away. 3. Amumu deals more damage late-game than Sejuani by virtue of his significantly shorter cooldowns on his Q and E and 100% uptime on W. Plus, Amumu starts dealing his all his AoE the instant he closes the gap while Sejuani still has to close the gap or have already started the fight to get the same effect. By then, half the stun duration has already worn off.
1. It is still faster damage and can't be negleted.
2.The Q got changed to a knockup with the rework.
3. At 40% cdr, because the discussions so far has seemed to favor this lategame:
Amumu's DPS
Q 58.33
W 24 +2.7% max
E 47.22
Total= 129.55 +2.7% max
Sejuani's DPS
Q 24.24 +1.82% max
W 85.71 +2.5% bonus health
E 39.39
With a build of FH/Golem/Mog/RO/BV/boots + masteries you end up with 3036.8 bonus hp.
Total= 225.26 +1.82% max
For Amumu to outdamage Sejuani in raw dps, the target has to have around 11k HP.
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There is no way you're missing W dmg at all as Sej unless they're close to tower since you can E after you land your Q.
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On March 03 2014 07:30 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 06:39 Gahlo wrote:On March 03 2014 06:32 Dgiese wrote:
I don't play sej, so I can't comment on her. As for mumu, I feel like the hard cc provided by his q allows the lane you are yanking for to get off more damage, more reliably (I.e. guarantee your laner hits skillshots). A relatively successful gabk with either has a good chance of bowling flash, but if your laner has hard cc or skillshots then I think you're more likely to get a Jill despite flash as amumu. Also, q->r is not the only way. Do blitz style and flash r into q for assured kills when flanking / positioning warrants. Also I feel like 3 in e into q max is realistic for mumu skill order, but maybe I'm just an oddball.
Please excuse any iPhone typos Both Qs are hard CC. How does Amumu garuntee a kill better? He has less CC and does less damage. I don't play sej, but amumu bandage is longer hard cc right? (correct me if his is not true). Additionally I feel that the longer range gives you more of an option of leading with it, sure it can still be flashed etc, but as amumu I think you have a higher chance of getting down longer hard cc. And like I say in my post, I'm making the distinction between slows and hard cc for the purposes of brain dead soloq teammates landin their skillshots because let's be real, a giant slow makes skillshots a lot easier to hit, but soloq teammates are gonna find a way to fuck it up, hard cc like bandage means they have to really fuck up to not land skillshots. Again let me reiterate that I don't play sej, so if her pre6 has similar length hard cc then I apologize
It's .25seconds longer, but there's also the travel time Amumu has to make to the target and it is affected by Tenacity. In most gank situaitons it's not good too lead with your CC unless the lane is super pushed up. Sejuani's slow comes from her E.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On March 03 2014 03:02 iCanada wrote:
I'd like to go TL Hipster and say I've been pumping Sej for a long time.
Moonbear and Teut told me she was bad.
I was hipster before it was cool.
Wait what? I said Sejuani was bad back when people were trying to compare her to Mundo/Shyvana as a splitpush/%hp damage threat. I'm fairly supportive of her otherwise as a tank that plays a controlling role in teamfights, and I'e said before that if her clear was better she'd probably be OP.
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On March 03 2014 07:00 Cheap0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 04:26 Ketara wrote:On March 03 2014 04:04 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2014 03:42 iCanada wrote:On March 03 2014 03:19 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2014 03:16 iCanada wrote:
Why?
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling. Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team? Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better. o.o All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too. More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi. That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q. All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better. And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad. bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage. Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close. Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD. Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD. Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early. Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC. The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch. 1. An autoattack reset is a faster autoattack, not a free autoattack. 2. Sej Q is actually a small knockback, and her autoattack animation is really slow. Can't always count on getting the reset against an enemy with flash (and if you don't, no AoE damage from W anyway). Also, Amumu usually turns on W then bandages in, meaning that he'll get a tick, maybe two of damage from his W before an enemy, even with flash or an escape, gets away. 3. Amumu deals more damage late-game than Sejuani by virtue of his significantly shorter cooldowns on his Q and E and 100% uptime on W. Plus, Amumu starts dealing his all his AoE the instant he closes the gap while Sejuani still has to close the gap or have already started the fight to get the same effect. By then, half the stun duration has already worn off. EDIT: There's other stuff too, like the range on bandage toss and its low risk nature versus throwing out a Sej ult and missing because your enemy flashed. Amumu's also better at focusing down an individual target during a team fight because of Bandage toss. I suppose that I'm arguing that, even in spite of Sejuani's slow, that Amumu is better at applying his damage and also focusing it on targets that need to die than Sejuani.
You know, I thought Amumu did more damage than Sejuani like two weeks ago. Then I did the math on it, which we've been posting for the last page or so.
Amumu never does as much damage as Sejuani with realistic jungle items, neither in terms of burst damage or sustained damage, at any point in the game.
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On March 03 2014 07:39 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 03:02 iCanada wrote:
I'd like to go TL Hipster and say I've been pumping Sej for a long time.
Moonbear and Teut told me she was bad.
I was hipster before it was cool. Wait what? I said Sejuani was bad back when people were trying to compare her to Mundo/Shyvana as a splitpush/%hp damage threat. I'm fairly supportive of her otherwise as a tank that plays a controlling role in teamfights, and I'e said before that if her clear was better she'd probably be OP.
On March 03 2014 03:08 iCanada wrote:
Haha fair enough, I suppose I was paraphrasing a bit.
I was told that most other junglers easier to draft and Sej early game too weak or something to that effect by moonbear, I dont think it was strictly "lol Sej bad herp."
:O
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On March 03 2014 07:34 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 07:30 Dgiese wrote:On March 03 2014 06:39 Gahlo wrote:On March 03 2014 06:32 Dgiese wrote:
I don't play sej, so I can't comment on her. As for mumu, I feel like the hard cc provided by his q allows the lane you are yanking for to get off more damage, more reliably (I.e. guarantee your laner hits skillshots). A relatively successful gabk with either has a good chance of bowling flash, but if your laner has hard cc or skillshots then I think you're more likely to get a Jill despite flash as amumu. Also, q->r is not the only way. Do blitz style and flash r into q for assured kills when flanking / positioning warrants. Also I feel like 3 in e into q max is realistic for mumu skill order, but maybe I'm just an oddball.
Please excuse any iPhone typos Both Qs are hard CC. How does Amumu garuntee a kill better? He has less CC and does less damage. I don't play sej, but amumu bandage is longer hard cc right? (correct me if his is not true). Additionally I feel that the longer range gives you more of an option of leading with it, sure it can still be flashed etc, but as amumu I think you have a higher chance of getting down longer hard cc. And like I say in my post, I'm making the distinction between slows and hard cc for the purposes of brain dead soloq teammates landin their skillshots because let's be real, a giant slow makes skillshots a lot easier to hit, but soloq teammates are gonna find a way to fuck it up, hard cc like bandage means they have to really fuck up to not land skillshots. Again let me reiterate that I don't play sej, so if her pre6 has similar length hard cc then I apologize It's .25seconds longer, but there's also the travel time Amumu has to make to the target and it is affected by Tenacity. In most gank situaitons it's not good too lead with your CC unless the lane is super pushed up. Sejuani's slow comes from her E.
K well pre 6 tenacity is not a factor. Obviously it's not always best to lead with q, however, as I mentioned the longer range gives you more options. I prefer the longer hard cc in early ganks, as I am of the mindset that my team are idiots that need to be spoonfed. IMO the best tool for that is hard cc and as much as you can get. You will notice that this is just my opinion, so if you trust teammates more than I you may find large slows that sej provides preferable.
Another note, the 6 item build comparison is obv a sej build, for comparisons sake amumu damage should be listed with an amumu build. Not saying that amumu would do more damage, but strawman arguments help nobody.
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On March 03 2014 08:20 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 07:34 Gahlo wrote:On March 03 2014 07:30 Dgiese wrote:On March 03 2014 06:39 Gahlo wrote:On March 03 2014 06:32 Dgiese wrote:
I don't play sej, so I can't comment on her. As for mumu, I feel like the hard cc provided by his q allows the lane you are yanking for to get off more damage, more reliably (I.e. guarantee your laner hits skillshots). A relatively successful gabk with either has a good chance of bowling flash, but if your laner has hard cc or skillshots then I think you're more likely to get a Jill despite flash as amumu. Also, q->r is not the only way. Do blitz style and flash r into q for assured kills when flanking / positioning warrants. Also I feel like 3 in e into q max is realistic for mumu skill order, but maybe I'm just an oddball.
Please excuse any iPhone typos Both Qs are hard CC. How does Amumu garuntee a kill better? He has less CC and does less damage. I don't play sej, but amumu bandage is longer hard cc right? (correct me if his is not true). Additionally I feel that the longer range gives you more of an option of leading with it, sure it can still be flashed etc, but as amumu I think you have a higher chance of getting down longer hard cc. And like I say in my post, I'm making the distinction between slows and hard cc for the purposes of brain dead soloq teammates landin their skillshots because let's be real, a giant slow makes skillshots a lot easier to hit, but soloq teammates are gonna find a way to fuck it up, hard cc like bandage means they have to really fuck up to not land skillshots. Again let me reiterate that I don't play sej, so if her pre6 has similar length hard cc then I apologize It's .25seconds longer, but there's also the travel time Amumu has to make to the target and it is affected by Tenacity. In most gank situaitons it's not good too lead with your CC unless the lane is super pushed up. Sejuani's slow comes from her E. K well pre 6 tenacity is not a factor. Obviously it's not always best to lead with q, however, as I mentioned the longer range gives you more options. I prefer the longer hard cc in early ganks, as I am of the mindset that my team are idiots that need to be spoonfed. IMO the best tool for that is hard cc and as much as you can get. You will notice that this is just my opinion, so if you trust teammates more than I you may find large slows that sej provides preferable. Another note, the 6 item build comparison is obv a sej build, for comparisons sake amumu damage should be listed with an amumu build. Not saying that amumu would do more damage, but strawman arguments help nobody.
The build is a generic tanky build from jungle that provides 40%cdr with blue buff. If we want to debate damage builds, Sejuani probably comes out even farther ahead on that because she doesn't need to build Rylai's to fully utilize Lyandri's.
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If you were going to build damage Sejuani you'd get Rylai anyway, though.
HP+AP yes plz.
With a full damage build Amumu probably does more sustained (not burst) damage, but with a realistic jungle build he certainly doesn't.
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EPT
