If you cast W and E at the same time, the knockup from E keeps them in place long enough for the second hit of W to proc your passive, giving you a nice burst combo, if you land the skill shots.
Q's hitbox is extremely large, giving you a lot of leeway on hitting your target. The angled shots are cute for turret harassment.
Obviously the best skillbuild is QW(W/E)(E/W)WR R > W > Q > E. W's waveclear is essential, and lets you play the role of lane bully against mids with weaker push. His gank assist is good with high burst and 2 CC's.
As far as items, Athene's is of course the one-stop-shop for all your mana needs. But damage-wise, he does really well with MPen because of his relatively high base damages and true damage passive. Haunting Guise is great, but I'm not sold on rushing Liandry's, because all of his spells are AOE so he doesn't apply the passive well. Abyssal would be nice, but the range is too short to be useful against anything but a diver.
I guess, in the end, he's just going to be built like everyone else mid, perhaps with a Guise before DCap.
On March 03 2014 07:30 mr_tolkien wrote: Mumu is pretty good. I feel like he clears faster than Sejuani, but maybe more tests should be made.
And yeah, mumu clearly ganks way better than Sejuani early, there's no denying it. Sejuani Q range is lower than mumu's Q, and way harder to connect with the knockup part.
Sej Q has a larger hitbox, so that's just you being bad. Also you can flash mid-q as Sej and I don't think you can do that as mummy.
You also seem to be forgetting Sej E for early ganks. Her E is really powerful.
Sejuani has a knock-up, a huge slow, and a stun, and you'd build Rylai... you want HP+AP? Get a Liandry's. By your reasoning we'd want Rylai on Nautilus too, despite it not working on anything but ult (knock-up+slow), E (slow) and Q (drag).
On March 03 2014 08:44 Ketara wrote: If you were going to build damage Sejuani you'd get Rylai anyway, though.
HP+AP yes plz.
With a full damage build Amumu probably does more sustained (not burst) damage, but with a realistic jungle build he certainly doesn't.
If you want HP/AP you're beter off with Rod of Ages. It's cheaper, gives the same AP, and gives 150 more health fully stacked. Sejuani has so much CC she really doesn't care about the slow.
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling.
Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team?
Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better.
o.o
All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too.
More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi.
That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q.
All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better.
And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad.
bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage.
Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close.
Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD.
Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD.
Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early.
Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC.
The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch.
1. An autoattack reset is a faster autoattack, not a free autoattack. 2. Sej Q is actually a small knockback, and her autoattack animation is really slow. Can't always count on getting the reset against an enemy with flash (and if you don't, no AoE damage from W anyway). Also, Amumu usually turns on W then bandages in, meaning that he'll get a tick, maybe two of damage from his W before an enemy, even with flash or an escape, gets away. 3. Amumu deals more damage late-game than Sejuani by virtue of his significantly shorter cooldowns on his Q and E and 100% uptime on W. Plus, Amumu starts dealing his all his AoE the instant he closes the gap while Sejuani still has to close the gap or have already started the fight to get the same effect. By then, half the stun duration has already worn off.
1. It is still faster damage and can't be negleted. 2.The Q got changed to a knockup with the rework. 3. At 40% cdr, because the discussions so far has seemed to favor this lategame: Amumu's DPS Q 58.33 W 24 +2.7% max E 47.22 Total= 129.55 +2.7% max
Sejuani's DPS Q 24.24 +1.82% max W 85.71 +2.5% bonus health E 39.39 With a build of FH/Golem/Mog/RO/BV/boots + masteries you end up with 3036.8 bonus hp. Total= 225.26 +1.82% max
For Amumu to outdamage Sejuani in raw dps, the target has to have around 11k HP.
Crunching the numbers and comparing them doesn't show what happens in an actual game. Examples: Sejuani's poor chasing ability and ability to stick to targets compared to Amumu's (because of low range and ease of blocking from massive hitbox), more conditional damage on her W and E because of her need to autoattack and for targets to have a permafrost stack, and an ult which doesn't broadcast itself as well as Amumu's, so your teammates are probably going to follow up on it slower.
I think you guys are confused by what I'm saying. I'm saying the 6 item build doesn't suit both junglers, if you want to argue about anything regarding full build then there it should use similar cost builds that suit their respective champion. Would it make calculations more favorable for sejuani? If so, great! I have no personal stake in amumu, I'm just saying from a logic and critical thinking perspective one should always look to present both views at their strongest. Basically if you're going to use an argument don't make it a strawman, ESPECIALLY if a non strawman makes your argument look even better. Although it does take more work to preset both sides optimally, so I can understand if it's too much of a bother.
Amumu and Sejuani have the same auto range, and their W radius are pretty close (I can't say for sure if they're equal, I don't know the numerical range of Amumu's). Sejuani has 5 more base MS. Sejuani's Q has a way larger hitbox than Amumu's and can only get blocked by champions. She has a massive slow that she can wait up to 4 seconds after her last W tick/autoattack to cast. She doesn't have worse chasing ability, unless you're trying to chase multiple champions (and even then Amumu's Q can be blocked too) or your target is between 600 and 1050 range away.
I'd say her ult broadcast itself fairly well, what with the swirling bola exploding into frozen enemy champions.
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling.
Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team?
Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better.
o.o
All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too.
More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi.
That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q.
All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better.
And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad.
bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage.
Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close.
Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD.
Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD.
Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early.
Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC.
The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch.
1. An autoattack reset is a faster autoattack, not a free autoattack. 2. Sej Q is actually a small knockback, and her autoattack animation is really slow. Can't always count on getting the reset against an enemy with flash (and if you don't, no AoE damage from W anyway). Also, Amumu usually turns on W then bandages in, meaning that he'll get a tick, maybe two of damage from his W before an enemy, even with flash or an escape, gets away. 3. Amumu deals more damage late-game than Sejuani by virtue of his significantly shorter cooldowns on his Q and E and 100% uptime on W. Plus, Amumu starts dealing his all his AoE the instant he closes the gap while Sejuani still has to close the gap or have already started the fight to get the same effect. By then, half the stun duration has already worn off.
1. It is still faster damage and can't be negleted. 2.The Q got changed to a knockup with the rework. 3. At 40% cdr, because the discussions so far has seemed to favor this lategame: Amumu's DPS Q 58.33 W 24 +2.7% max E 47.22 Total= 129.55 +2.7% max
Sejuani's DPS Q 24.24 +1.82% max W 85.71 +2.5% bonus health E 39.39 With a build of FH/Golem/Mog/RO/BV/boots + masteries you end up with 3036.8 bonus hp. Total= 225.26 +1.82% max
For Amumu to outdamage Sejuani in raw dps, the target has to have around 11k HP.
Crunching the numbers and comparing them doesn't show what happens in an actual game. Examples: Sejuani's poor chasing ability and ability to stick to targets compared to Amumu's (because of low range and ease of blocking from massive hitbox), more conditional damage on her W and E because of her need to autoattack and for targets to have a permafrost stack, and an ult which doesn't broadcast itself as well as Amumu's, so your teammates are probably going to follow up on it slower.
I don't often do this, but if you think Amumu sticks to a target better than Sejuani you must be retarded. She doesn't need to land an auto attack to start W or cause a stack for permafrost. Amumu's has to bandage toss in, Sejuani tosses her maul. Both have ample of time to follow up on.
Now please, I'm not asking you play Sejuani, but at least know how her kit works before making yourself look like an idiot.
On March 03 2014 09:33 Dgiese wrote: I think you guys are confused by what I'm saying. I'm saying the 6 item build doesn't suit both junglers, if you want to argue about anything regarding full build then there it should use similar cost builds that suit their respective champion. Would it make calculations more favorable for sejuani? If so, great! I have no personal stake in amumu, I'm just saying from a logic and critical thinking perspective one should always look to present both views at their strongest. Basically if you're going to use an argument don't make it a strawman, ESPECIALLY if a non strawman makes your argument look even better. Although it does take more work to preset both sides optimally, so I can understand if it's too much of a bother.
Then give me a "reasonable" build and I'll work the #s off that. All I see is Amumu supporters going "he does more damage lategame with 40cdr" and not backing it up with anything concrete.
We all know Sejuani is better than Amumu in early mid and late game because if you look at the percentage based damage from Sejuani you can factor in the equation of AP divided by the ratio to get the total damage. If you take a look at Amumu though you can see that the Damage of his Bandage Toss is equivalent to the journey from Wraiths to Golem camp. Basically by taking the Blue side river bush you can see the damage Sejuani does when she starts to use her QW combo. Amumu can not go to the river bush because he will have his W on and his W is AoE which doesn't work with the bush. Once in awhile Sejuani will be able to Press her Ultimate which will fly into the lane and with the AP Ratio follow up she will fly past Amumu while he's just trying to Bandage toss with his Liandries. Sometimes though, Sejuani can fail improperly by not allowing the side effect of her E to hit the mark but sometimes if Amumu has his E as well it'll go 50/50 and you can only negate the damage once. Following up that one small possibility, Sejuani is able to Frost on everybody because 80% slow goes 100% of the time. With burning percentage damage on both Amumu and Sejuani you then have to factor in the total ratio multiplied by champions in the range, and then when you use your ultimate you can see who actually wins.
With all these scientific theories that I have discovered I have come to the conclusion that Sejuani > Amumu.
Putting their ultimates aside, I think Sejuani definitely sticks to the target better. She has an E beside her Q which can be used to maintain her distance while she waits for her Q's cooldown. But do remember that Amumu has much longer range on his Q (1100 vs 650) which can be useful in many situations.
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling.
Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team?
Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better.
o.o
All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too.
More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi.
That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q.
All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better.
And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad.
bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage.
Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close.
Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD.
Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD.
Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early.
Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC.
The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch.
1. An autoattack reset is a faster autoattack, not a free autoattack. 2. Sej Q is actually a small knockback, and her autoattack animation is really slow. Can't always count on getting the reset against an enemy with flash (and if you don't, no AoE damage from W anyway). Also, Amumu usually turns on W then bandages in, meaning that he'll get a tick, maybe two of damage from his W before an enemy, even with flash or an escape, gets away. 3. Amumu deals more damage late-game than Sejuani by virtue of his significantly shorter cooldowns on his Q and E and 100% uptime on W. Plus, Amumu starts dealing his all his AoE the instant he closes the gap while Sejuani still has to close the gap or have already started the fight to get the same effect. By then, half the stun duration has already worn off.
1. It is still faster damage and can't be negleted. 2.The Q got changed to a knockup with the rework. 3. At 40% cdr, because the discussions so far has seemed to favor this lategame: Amumu's DPS Q 58.33 W 24 +2.7% max E 47.22 Total= 129.55 +2.7% max
Sejuani's DPS Q 24.24 +1.82% max W 85.71 +2.5% bonus health E 39.39 With a build of FH/Golem/Mog/RO/BV/boots + masteries you end up with 3036.8 bonus hp. Total= 225.26 +1.82% max
For Amumu to outdamage Sejuani in raw dps, the target has to have around 11k HP.
Crunching the numbers and comparing them doesn't show what happens in an actual game. Examples: Sejuani's poor chasing ability and ability to stick to targets compared to Amumu's (because of low range and ease of blocking from massive hitbox), more conditional damage on her W and E because of her need to autoattack and for targets to have a permafrost stack, and an ult which doesn't broadcast itself as well as Amumu's, so your teammates are probably going to follow up on it slower.
I don't often do this, but if you think Amumu sticks to a target better than Sejuani you must be retarded. She doesn't need to land an auto attack to start W or cause a stack for permafrost. Amumu's has to bandage toss in, Sejuani tosses her maul. Both have ample of time to follow up on.
Now please, I'm not asking you play Sejuani, but at least know how her kit works before making yourself look like an idiot.
On March 03 2014 09:33 Dgiese wrote: I think you guys are confused by what I'm saying. I'm saying the 6 item build doesn't suit both junglers, if you want to argue about anything regarding full build then there it should use similar cost builds that suit their respective champion. Would it make calculations more favorable for sejuani? If so, great! I have no personal stake in amumu, I'm just saying from a logic and critical thinking perspective one should always look to present both views at their strongest. Basically if you're going to use an argument don't make it a strawman, ESPECIALLY if a non strawman makes your argument look even better. Although it does take more work to preset both sides optimally, so I can understand if it's too much of a bother.
Then give me a "reasonable" build and I'll work the #s off that. All I see is Amumu supporters going "he does more damage lategame with 40cdr" and not backing it up with anything concrete.
Sounds like you need to chill a little bit, I'm criticizing a previously put forth build as biased. I have no interest it putting forth my preferred build as it is not my assertion that amumu does more damage. My point is that if someone DOES want to discuss that, it should be optimal for both champs. I believe you are confusing which posters have said what.
Sej has more CC, similar clears, a safer ult that does more damage and is a stun instead of a root in the same radius with a shorter CD and smaller Mana Cost.
Sej also much much better at catching people being derpy. Sej can Q->R from 1900 range, Mumu is restricted by only the 1100 on bandage toss, and if he lucky maybe 1650 if they standing in a creep wave or something.
Sejuani can also wall hop reliably, and has significantly more Teamfight presence once ults have been used. Mummy just has bandage toss ult, then he kind of runs around trying to be annoying. Sej gives your AD carry Ashe frost Arrows without them having to be Ashe. Good luck trying to catch the Lucian with a Sej Peeling.
Because you can global squishies with Amumu. And Amumu's clear is better, especially first clear. Pre-6 ganks are better, strictly speaking. Also, range of engage for their ulti's should almost never be done at full range. 1900 range ulti combo for Sej is fucking useless, unless your team is far ahead of you, in that case what the fuck are you doing behind the rest of your team?
Amumu's ganks pre-6 aren't better.
o.o
All mummy has pre-6 is Bandage toss and red buff slow. Sej has a much easier Q to land because Sej is fat (thanks teut), and then she has her own perma slow and Red buff slow. As a jungler, you have more options to your gank as Sej than with Amumu. As Amumu you kind of need to wait for them to use an escape before your press Q. Basically have to catch them out of position. As Sej you can derp at them and then even if they flash they still have 50-70% slow on them.... if you in good position you can also wait for them to flash before you knockup too.
More options = good. Sej has an ability to be cute getting around wards too similar to Zac, Shaco, J4, and Vi.
That, and unless you level Q first full Azingy style, Sej has a lower CD on her Q.
All the while, Sej gets free Tencity and Armor and Mummy gets MR shred on auto-attack. i think Sej passive strictly better.
And I never said to engage full fights from 1900 range. Say their team is mid, or doing drag, and then they have one derper top clearing a wave going a touch too far. If you are Mumu, guy gets away. If you are Sej, he is held down so your Support, top, or mid laner can CC him and suddenly you have a huuge advantage from that pick. I think thats strong. Ofcourse using your ult from 1900 range 5 on 5 is bad.
bandage toss is significantly better than the slow in ganks. you only need that short snare/stun, to destroy in a gank, especially since amumu does more damage.
Amumu doesn't do more damage pre6 than Sejuani. Not even close.
Sej at level 3 has 281.9+4% max HP damage in her skills and a 61.9 damage auto at 0.69 ASPD.
Mummy has 155 damage and then 8+1.5% max HP damage per second and a 58.4 damage auto at 0.67 ASPD.
Even with the MR shred, Sej does more damage early.
Sejuani also does more late game damage. In fact, she does more damage at every stage of the game period, while being tankier and having more mobility and more CC.
The only way I see Mummy being superior at all at this point is in clear speed, and that gap was made smaller in this patch.
1. An autoattack reset is a faster autoattack, not a free autoattack. 2. Sej Q is actually a small knockback, and her autoattack animation is really slow. Can't always count on getting the reset against an enemy with flash (and if you don't, no AoE damage from W anyway). Also, Amumu usually turns on W then bandages in, meaning that he'll get a tick, maybe two of damage from his W before an enemy, even with flash or an escape, gets away. 3. Amumu deals more damage late-game than Sejuani by virtue of his significantly shorter cooldowns on his Q and E and 100% uptime on W. Plus, Amumu starts dealing his all his AoE the instant he closes the gap while Sejuani still has to close the gap or have already started the fight to get the same effect. By then, half the stun duration has already worn off.
1. It is still faster damage and can't be negleted. 2.The Q got changed to a knockup with the rework. 3. At 40% cdr, because the discussions so far has seemed to favor this lategame: Amumu's DPS Q 58.33 W 24 +2.7% max E 47.22 Total= 129.55 +2.7% max
Sejuani's DPS Q 24.24 +1.82% max W 85.71 +2.5% bonus health E 39.39 With a build of FH/Golem/Mog/RO/BV/boots + masteries you end up with 3036.8 bonus hp. Total= 225.26 +1.82% max
For Amumu to outdamage Sejuani in raw dps, the target has to have around 11k HP.
Crunching the numbers and comparing them doesn't show what happens in an actual game. Examples: Sejuani's poor chasing ability and ability to stick to targets compared to Amumu's (because of low range and ease of blocking from massive hitbox), more conditional damage on her W and E because of her need to autoattack and for targets to have a permafrost stack, and an ult which doesn't broadcast itself as well as Amumu's, so your teammates are probably going to follow up on it slower.
I don't often do this, but if you think Amumu sticks to a target better than Sejuani you must be retarded. She doesn't need to land an auto attack to start W or cause a stack for permafrost. Amumu's has to bandage toss in, Sejuani tosses her maul. Both have ample of time to follow up on.
Now please, I'm not asking you play Sejuani, but at least know how her kit works before making yourself look like an idiot.
On March 03 2014 09:33 Dgiese wrote: I think you guys are confused by what I'm saying. I'm saying the 6 item build doesn't suit both junglers, if you want to argue about anything regarding full build then there it should use similar cost builds that suit their respective champion. Would it make calculations more favorable for sejuani? If so, great! I have no personal stake in amumu, I'm just saying from a logic and critical thinking perspective one should always look to present both views at their strongest. Basically if you're going to use an argument don't make it a strawman, ESPECIALLY if a non strawman makes your argument look even better. Although it does take more work to preset both sides optimally, so I can understand if it's too much of a bother.
Then give me a "reasonable" build and I'll work the #s off that. All I see is Amumu supporters going "he does more damage lategame with 40cdr" and not backing it up with anything concrete.
Sounds like you need to chill a little bit, I'm criticizing a previously put forth build as biased. I have no interest it putting forth my preferred build as it is not my assertion that amumu does more damage. My point is that if someone DOES want to discuss that, it should be optimal for both champs. I believe you are confusing which posters have said what.
If I was going to be agressive towards you, I'd have used "you" instead of "Amumu supporters."
I don't see anything in there that's biased towards Sejuani outside of possibly Warmogs without giving 30% cdr through items. Even then, I doubt it lowers the HP of the target from 11k+ to the 4kish max we usually see in game with any semi serious build.
Indeed, the warmogs wouldn't be in an amumu build, and I think another item replacing it that amumu might build would even further support the claim that sej does more damage. Personally I fluctuate between sunfire abyssal starts or straight deathcap if I find a suitable enemy to exploit, however, that is obviously highly circumstantial. Comparing sunfire abyssal stuff probably it's warranted as I have no idea if it's viable to build sej in a similar manner. I do think I'll try Ot the champ though, as if she plays at all similarly I think I'll enjoy her
EPT
