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On March 02 2014 14:15 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 14:12 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 13:54 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 12:11 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Ashe is decent. Obviously her laning phase is... well, "average", but she is fairly strong against many fotm top laners that do not have a lot of gapclosers.
So, trundle? Mundo Shyvana lol, yeah no. Ashe gets fucking butt rekt by Mundo and Shyv. Mundo isn't hard, but you are depended on someone positioning correctly to block the cleavers. For Shyvana you obviously need to avoid having her smashing onto you with her R; her W only lasts 3 seconds unless she autos. Shyv does more than fine against Ashe, Burst with R+BotRK+W+E+Q, should wreck an Ashe, maybe needs like a follow up spell from your AP carry. Playing anything without escape is just an iffy proposition. One of the main reason Koreans avoid Jinx despite dem ratios.
I'm curious as to how you find Mundo easier than Shyvana. Cleaver beats frost shot at every rank, he has free tenacity, and free long-term movement speed, such that even if you dodge the far cleavers he's likely to get to you. Shyvana typically dives in with her W on, gets stunned for at least half the duration, and then has to slow walk up to you. If your team helps you out at all, I find the stun to be more than sufficient to deal with a single one-chance-gap-closer diving threat. If they don't, then Shyv can probably wreck Ashe if she can get to her (mercs + wardens + cutlass necessary though imo), yeah.
Although it is worth noting that while Ashe's ult has a similar cooldown to BotRK, Shyv is less likely to have used her BotRK lately just because of range etc and more likely to have it up for a fight, but this isn't really a point against Ashe.
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On March 02 2014 15:20 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 14:15 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 14:12 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 13:54 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 12:11 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Ashe is decent. Obviously her laning phase is... well, "average", but she is fairly strong against many fotm top laners that do not have a lot of gapclosers.
So, trundle? Mundo Shyvana lol, yeah no. Ashe gets fucking butt rekt by Mundo and Shyv. Mundo isn't hard, but you are depended on someone positioning correctly to block the cleavers. For Shyvana you obviously need to avoid having her smashing onto you with her R; her W only lasts 3 seconds unless she autos. Shyv does more than fine against Ashe, Burst with R+BotRK+W+E+Q, should wreck an Ashe, maybe needs like a follow up spell from your AP carry. Playing anything without escape is just an iffy proposition. One of the main reason Koreans avoid Jinx despite dem ratios. I'm curious as to how you find Mundo easier than Shyvana. Cleaver beats frost shot at every rank, he has free tenacity, and free long-term movement speed, such that even if you dodge the far cleavers he's likely to get to you. Shyvana typically dives in with her W on, gets stunned for at least half the duration, and then has to slow walk up to you. If your team helps you out at all, I find the stun to be more than sufficient to deal with a single one-chance-gap-closer diving threat. If they don't, then Shyv can probably wreck Ashe if she can get to her (mercs + wardens + cutlass necessary though imo), yeah. Although it is worth noting that while Ashe's ult has a similar cooldown to BotRK, Shyv is less likely to have used her BotRK lately just because of range etc and more likely to have it up for a fight, but this isn't really a point against Ashe.
If you're going to bring up Arrow for Shyv, you have to do it for Mundo too.
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On March 02 2014 15:23 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 15:20 TheHumanSensation wrote:On March 02 2014 14:15 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 14:12 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 13:54 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 12:11 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Ashe is decent. Obviously her laning phase is... well, "average", but she is fairly strong against many fotm top laners that do not have a lot of gapclosers.
So, trundle? Mundo Shyvana lol, yeah no. Ashe gets fucking butt rekt by Mundo and Shyv. Mundo isn't hard, but you are depended on someone positioning correctly to block the cleavers. For Shyvana you obviously need to avoid having her smashing onto you with her R; her W only lasts 3 seconds unless she autos. Shyv does more than fine against Ashe, Burst with R+BotRK+W+E+Q, should wreck an Ashe, maybe needs like a follow up spell from your AP carry. Playing anything without escape is just an iffy proposition. One of the main reason Koreans avoid Jinx despite dem ratios. I'm curious as to how you find Mundo easier than Shyvana. Cleaver beats frost shot at every rank, he has free tenacity, and free long-term movement speed, such that even if you dodge the far cleavers he's likely to get to you. Shyvana typically dives in with her W on, gets stunned for at least half the duration, and then has to slow walk up to you. If your team helps you out at all, I find the stun to be more than sufficient to deal with a single one-chance-gap-closer diving threat. If they don't, then Shyv can probably wreck Ashe if she can get to her (mercs + wardens + cutlass necessary though imo), yeah. Although it is worth noting that while Ashe's ult has a similar cooldown to BotRK, Shyv is less likely to have used her BotRK lately just because of range etc and more likely to have it up for a fight, but this isn't really a point against Ashe. If you're going to bring up Arrow for Shyv, you have to do it for Mundo too.
qss shyv's botrk and proceed to laugh at her...unless she dragons you in the face like it's been mentioned.
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On March 02 2014 15:20 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 14:15 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 14:12 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 13:54 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 12:11 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Ashe is decent. Obviously her laning phase is... well, "average", but she is fairly strong against many fotm top laners that do not have a lot of gapclosers.
So, trundle? Mundo Shyvana lol, yeah no. Ashe gets fucking butt rekt by Mundo and Shyv. Mundo isn't hard, but you are depended on someone positioning correctly to block the cleavers. For Shyvana you obviously need to avoid having her smashing onto you with her R; her W only lasts 3 seconds unless she autos. Shyv does more than fine against Ashe, Burst with R+BotRK+W+E+Q, should wreck an Ashe, maybe needs like a follow up spell from your AP carry. Playing anything without escape is just an iffy proposition. One of the main reason Koreans avoid Jinx despite dem ratios. I'm curious as to how you find Mundo easier than Shyvana. Cleaver beats frost shot at every rank, he has free tenacity, and free long-term movement speed, such that even if you dodge the far cleavers he's likely to get to you. Shyvana typically dives in with her W on, gets stunned for at least half the duration, and then has to slow walk up to you. If your team helps you out at all, I find the stun to be more than sufficient to deal with a single one-chance-gap-closer diving threat. If they don't, then Shyv can probably wreck Ashe if she can get to her (mercs + wardens + cutlass necessary though imo), yeah. Although it is worth noting that while Ashe's ult has a similar cooldown to BotRK, Shyv is less likely to have used her BotRK lately just because of range etc and more likely to have it up for a fight, but this isn't really a point against Ashe.
I didn't mention Mundo, cuz it was plainly obvious he just walks up and shits on you.
On March 02 2014 15:30 Ethelis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2014 15:23 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 15:20 TheHumanSensation wrote:On March 02 2014 14:15 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 14:12 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 13:54 wei2coolman wrote:On March 02 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On March 02 2014 12:11 Gahlo wrote:On March 02 2014 12:09 Sufficiency wrote:
I feel Ashe is decent. Obviously her laning phase is... well, "average", but she is fairly strong against many fotm top laners that do not have a lot of gapclosers.
So, trundle? Mundo Shyvana lol, yeah no. Ashe gets fucking butt rekt by Mundo and Shyv. Mundo isn't hard, but you are depended on someone positioning correctly to block the cleavers. For Shyvana you obviously need to avoid having her smashing onto you with her R; her W only lasts 3 seconds unless she autos. Shyv does more than fine against Ashe, Burst with R+BotRK+W+E+Q, should wreck an Ashe, maybe needs like a follow up spell from your AP carry. Playing anything without escape is just an iffy proposition. One of the main reason Koreans avoid Jinx despite dem ratios. I'm curious as to how you find Mundo easier than Shyvana. Cleaver beats frost shot at every rank, he has free tenacity, and free long-term movement speed, such that even if you dodge the far cleavers he's likely to get to you. Shyvana typically dives in with her W on, gets stunned for at least half the duration, and then has to slow walk up to you. If your team helps you out at all, I find the stun to be more than sufficient to deal with a single one-chance-gap-closer diving threat. If they don't, then Shyv can probably wreck Ashe if she can get to her (mercs + wardens + cutlass necessary though imo), yeah. Although it is worth noting that while Ashe's ult has a similar cooldown to BotRK, Shyv is less likely to have used her BotRK lately just because of range etc and more likely to have it up for a fight, but this isn't really a point against Ashe. If you're going to bring up Arrow for Shyv, you have to do it for Mundo too. qss shyv's botrk and proceed to laugh at her...unless she dragons you in the face like it's been mentioned.
It has to do with Item timing. Ashe not going to have QSS until 4 item timing at earliest.
Mean while Shyv has BotRK+Randuins at 2 item timing. Gets another 2 item timings worth of time to shit all over you.
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Ashe will definately struggle against the FOTM's, especially mundo and shyvana. However, I feel that if that's all the dive they have (e.g. it's not Vi/Yasuo/Shyvana) then your team can probably peel them off and ashe will be fine. And ashe utility is rediculously strong; her gank assist is like warwick tier.
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eh. Mundo is (one of) Ashe's worst nightmare. Free tenacity means your ult does next to nothing if you hit him with it. Huge speed boost while being hilariously tanky with his ult means your frost shots aren't gonna do much (especially if he really hates you and buys swifties). Then if he ever lands 1 cleaver on you, you're dead.
The current metagame is just not kind to Ashe at all. I can't really imagine a teamcomp where you can make Ashe work without having all the fotm bruisers/divers banned out.
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so is riot is ever going to gut thresh or they just keep him at the bullshit state forever ?
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I think lulu isn't really out of line with thresh as a support; gutting Thresh without touching Lulu would be silly.
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On March 02 2014 17:21 kongoline wrote:
so is riot is ever going to gut thresh or they just keep him at the bullshit state forever ?
Yeah, his kit is a bit strong. Even without his souls scaling bullshit, he'd be plenty good as is. At least we're getting to the point now where he's actually no longer 1st pick for support for all situations. Now he's just a generically good support. Champs like Annie+Leona starting to see more competitiveness for picks now.
On March 02 2014 17:30 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
I think lulu isn't really out of line with thresh as a support; gutting Thresh without touching Lulu would be silly.
Lulu support really isn't as big of an issue (pre-current patch, not sure how she plays with frostfang). It's solo lane lulu that's a problem.
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thresh already did get gutted, it's called the newest patch. play AP supports or go home, frost line is broken as fuck
and yea, annie/morg/lulu are probably the best supports atm, probably a few more APs but those are the ones you generall see
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Zyra support also got a buff with the change. Interestingly, Zilean also makes super good use of the harass gold with his long AA range and bombs.
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On March 02 2014 16:09 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Ashe will definately struggle against the FOTM's, especially mundo and shyvana. However, I feel that if that's all the dive they have (e.g. it's not Vi/Yasuo/Shyvana) then your team can probably peel them off and ashe will be fine. And ashe utility is rediculously strong; her gank assist is like warwick tier.
I think some of the discussions assume this is a one on one situation. In that case I don't think any ADC can win against a Mundo one on one (except MAYBE Vayne, but let's not go there).
Otherwise, though, Ashe has some undeniably good perks into a team fight against these tanks that other ADCs can't bring to the table. When you are against a Mundo or Shyvana who mostly walks up to you (instead of jumping onto you), having a gapcloser that goes ~500 distance can only save you for so long. A slow that can be infinitely reapplied, IMO, is stronger against these champions in particular.
Obviously Ashe has no escapes and that's a huge problem. She is really vulnerable to getting jumped on by gapclosers, especially by things like Vi's R. Nevertheless, her Q + W allows her to deal with threats that can only walk up to her with relative ease, provided she has a half-competent team to support her.
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dude velkoz does insane damage, i don't think i've seen a game where velkoz doesnt do the most damage out of everyone in the game.
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The fact that Velkoz stores charges for his W and it still does good damage for each individual usage, AND he has a damage passive.... yeah he does a ton of damage. His range is pretty solid, too, but it's no Nidalee/Ziggs.
His ult hits like a truck too.
But the immobility / middling range puts him in the Syndra camp. Yeah the damage is there, but that doesn't mean he's going to take over the metagame.
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On March 02 2014 23:22 sylverfyre wrote:
The fact that Velkoz stores charges for his W and it still does good damage for each individual usage, AND he has a damage passive.... yeah he does a ton of damage. His range is pretty solid, too, but it's no Nidalee/Ziggs.
His ult hits like a truck too.
But the immobility / middling range puts him in the Syndra camp. Yeah the damage is there, but that doesn't mean he's going to take over the metagame.
Add to that, he feels (and looks) absolutely huge. So much so that I find it a bit awkward roaming from mid.
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Anyone been playing Sej at all since the new patch? She feels like she's in a pretty strong place atm. Can build tanky but still have room for Liandry's. The new spirit changes make her sustain just enough to only have to back when u need to, and her clear after the 1st is pretty godly. She's also an AMAZING combo with Vel'Koz.
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On March 03 2014 02:19 Diamond wrote:
Anyone been playing Sej at all since the new patch? She feels like she's in a pretty strong place atm. Can build tanky but still have room for Liandry's. The new spirit changes make her sustain just enough to only have to back when u need to, and her clear after the 1st is pretty godly. She's also an AMAZING combo with Vel'Koz.
Yup. I think Sej has turned into a TL hipster pick for the most part.
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I'd like to go TL Hipster and say I've been pumping Sej for a long time.
Moonbear and Teut told me she was bad.
I was hipster before it was cool.
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i never said that
i said she was fat and that i prefer amumu
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Haha fair enough, I suppose I was paraphrasing a bit.
I was told that most other junglers easier to draft and Sej early game too weak or something to that effect by moonbear, I dont think it was strictly "lol Sej bad herp."
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EPT
