[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 15

On February 28 2014 07:37 Requizen wrote:

You mean 3.0?

Hue 120% Holy damage in an in AoE and immunity to CC on like a 6 second CD, no mana costs ever.

On February 28 2014 07:47 RouaF wrote:

I don't see any mention of teemo in either of these pages.

On February 28 2014 07:37 Requizen wrote:

You mean 3.0?

Hue 120% Holy damage in an in AoE and immunity to CC on like a 6 second CD, no mana costs ever.

On February 28 2014 07:50 cLutZ wrote:

No. 3.0 was across the board OP. 2.0 was really easy to beat of you were like 1600+ in arena, but rofl stomped below 1400.

On February 28 2014 07:52 Amui wrote:

WotLK ret pally at one point was really fun. You could bind every standard DPS key to one button(executed at random), and you would lose under 5% dps so long as you hit your avenging wrath/trinkets whenever needed.

Also prot paladin had a 2 button rotation + other skills.

On February 28 2014 07:54 Requizen wrote:

Was Arena live in 2.0 or are you just using the rankings as general skill points?


Dude paladin was my main through Wrath and Cata, super fun. Wrath pre-release patch Ret was good enough where I could beat my friend's geared Prot warrior in a duel when I was still leveling.

On February 28 2014 09:30 GolemMadness wrote:
So is it just me, or does new frost queen line give insane amounts of gold?

On February 28 2014 09:32 Klonere wrote:


its bugged so it procs off turrets right now

but yeah in the right lane its insane, i had 200 ish gold made at 10mins in a sona/jinx vs thresh/sivir lane.

On February 28 2014 09:30 GolemMadness wrote:
So is it just me, or does new frost queen line give insane amounts of gold?

In reality, the Live Team tends to buff about as much as they nerf. A few factors lead to the perception that our balance is nerf heavy: First, players trend toward playing overpowered champions, and tend to focus on champions they play when reading the patch notes. For example, Corki's playrate increased 8x within a 1 month period around September of last year (Trinity Force buffs made him very strong). It's only natural to focus on the champions you play when reading the patch notes and pay less attention to the (previously underpowered) champions you don't. That's why I don't fault you for missing the straight buffs to Corki, Ryze and Skarner in 4.3, despite the fact that it's written in clear English. Second, players tend to read net neutral changes (buffs + nerfs) as nerfs. For example, community sentiment was largely that our recent changes to Kayle's Q ratio was a nerf, when in fact the buff to her W's movement speed made her about the same strength, if not more potent -- We reduced Kayle's burst while increasing her team utility and ability to deal sustained damage. Since players were used to bursting with Kayle, they focused on the reduction to their ability to 1 shot a dude over the gains. This isn't true of all players, mind you, but it happens to a lot of us (even Yours Truly). Third, buffs are often hard to associate with a particular champion, but nerfs feel very specific. Returning to Corki, when we buffed Trinity Force before Worlds, very few players saw this as a dramatic gain for Corki on patch day. Nonetheless, he was immediately overpowered. When we made subsequent changes to Corki which resulted in a net decrease in power, everyone saw that as a dramatic loss for Corki. Again returning to 4.3, we expect all Tear of the Goddess and Spellthief's Edge users to be stronger in this patch. However, it will take a while for these buffs to be fully appreciated. Finally, if you are posting here, you likely read posts here, and players are much more likely to write a forum post when they feel frustrated or aggrieved than when they feel content. Thus, all of the above is magnified because the "TLDR" of the patch notes often seems like a litany of nerfs because a huge portion of the posts on this forum are just players venting about specific nerfs to their favorite overpowered champion.

All of the champions you listed ["why is Fiora/Viktor/Brand/Heimer/my favorite champion still unviable/clunky/outdated/otherwise disadvantaged?"] are perfectly viable. Unfortunately, they do not feel viable (for a number of reasons specific to each). Take Fiora. If you cannot win with Fiora, that's likely because you are playing her wrong.

I did not mean to imply everyone played champions for power, only that our more powerful champions on average tend to see more play than our less powerful champions. I also agree with you that the major nerfs we did to Urgot (and Olaf) were unfortunate and tarnished our balance reputation. It is of course unfortunate that some champions are dramatically more powerful in the hands of a pro than our average player, as were Olaf and Urgot (who both saw/see success in competitive after we "destroyed" them). What we should have done was alter their underlying mechanics so that they could be relatively fun while still being unique and balanced at the highest levels of play. Indeed, this is a lesson that the Live team has taken to heart. SmashGizmo did a phenomenal re-work on Olaf that retained his core identity (Berserker) while removing the competitive balance problems (massive true damage on a CC immune bruiser whose offensive itemization was full health/CDR). More recently, this patch's Twisted Fate changes, while they may seem minor, are designed to make him balanceable across the entire spectrum of players. The Kha'zix changes almost certainly reduce his overall power level, but they also help fulfill his identity as a hunter/assassin in the process. I actually enjoy playing this patch's version of Kha'Zix much more than the previous version -- I may not take Dragon/Baron as quickly, or annihilate underleveled targets instantly when I am ahead, but I can make game defining turn-around plays and can drop aggro in skirmishes when needed and move to isolated targets more effectively. So while it is fair to be critical of the Urgot/Olaf approach, it is not fair to portray that as reflective of our current approach to game balance.

More recently, this patch's Twisted Fate changes, while they may seem minor, are designed to make him balanceable across the entire spectrum of players.

Twisted Fate W - Pick A Card NEWPRETTINESS New Particles!

Hahah, alright looking back my post does seem a bit ecstatic about the TF changes. Let me re-phrase: TF got UI changes to make using his abilities less a function of mastering the poor UI supporting them and more a function of good judgment and ability placement. This is not some Earth-shattering change to his gameplay. However, it IS the sort of change which lays the groundwork for us achieving an iteration of Twisted Fate who can be balanced and satisfying inside and outside of competitive play.

On February 28 2014 09:50 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
CertainlyT is a champion designer. He designed Thresh, Zyra, Darius, etc. All relatively interesting (and very broken on release) champions.