EPTJoke, its all about making money on day 1.
[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 16
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21633 Posts
Joke, its all about making money on day 1. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
Locodoco soloQing in Korea :D | ||
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fantasticoranges
1327 Posts
On February 28 2014 09:50 GhandiEAGLE wrote: CertainlyT is a champion designer. He designed Thresh, Zyra, Darius, etc. All relatively interesting (and very broken on release) champions. My only real problem with his champions is that he releases them, and the basic idea behind their kit is cool and wonderful and he adds bullshit bonuses to every skill did zyra really need the free 20% cdr did darius really need the armor pen does yasuo actually need double crit does thresh actually need that autoattack damage enhancer like wtf | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Maybe you could explain? The stuff you quoted seems very reasonable and well thought out to me, aside from possibly the Fiora comment, which is sort of a half truth. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
1. I disagree with their basic philosophy 1a. They lie and deny their basic philosophy is what it is. 2. They're really bad at actualizing their basic philosophy. Riot's basic philosophy is that every champions should have a similar power curve, and do similar things, and are practically indistinguishable from each other. If by some miracle a champion excels at one thing, they will nerf that one thing, rendering an interesting champion into a boring one. Don't argue with this - it's true to anyone who's capable of more than 10 seconds of sustained critical thought. Insultingly, though, Riot goes out of their way to deny this blatant truth, by claiming that they like new and interesting champion design, mechanics, and strengths and weaknesses. Yeah no, we get the same handful of champion blueprints repackaged in different kits but actually do the exact same things, and anything that deviates from the norm is swiftly nerfed. Strong early game and weak late game? Nope gotta make you weak early and better late. You're really good at tanking but deal no damage? Nope gotta make you less tanky but make you do more damage to compensate. You're really good at sustained fights but have no mobility? Nope gotta give you a gap closer/escape while nerfing all your CDs. Ad infinitum. Even if I disagree with this philosophy, if they can consistently implement it, then that's fine - it's really an aesthetic/subjective preference anyways. But to add insult to injury, they are miserable at actually doing what they intend. As a result, every patch cycle there is a group of heroes that are ridiculously overpowered and overshadow the alternatives in every way imaginable, leading to ~1/3 of the roster being played on a regular basis. It's not even a case of 1/3 of the roster is played in 2/3 of the cases - it's much more extreme to the point where every game feels like the exact same game. Again, deviations from these picks are quickly identified and nerfed into oblivion, while leaving the core problem untouched. So basically Riot has a shitty philosophy, AND they can't implement it properly. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:08 Ketara wrote: I'm not sure I understand how he's lying? Maybe you could explain? The stuff you quoted seems very reasonable and well thought out to me, aside from possibly the Fiora comment, which is sort of a half truth. Of course you would say that. Not even going to bother explaining everything, just read this over again and tell me with a straight face that this is "reasonable and well thought out." More recently, this patch's Twisted Fate changes, while they may seem minor, are designed to make him balanceable across the entire spectrum of players. TF got UI changes to make using his abilities less a function of mastering the poor UI supporting them and more a function of good judgment and ability placement. This is not some Earth-shattering change to his gameplay. However, it IS the sort of change which lays the groundwork for us achieving an iteration of Twisted Fate who can be balanced and satisfying inside and outside of competitive play. | ||
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
I'm kinda curious how you could actually balance a champion having a global ultimate that gives true sight, except through Paranoia, with his stun and waveclear/splitpushing with his Wildcard+Lich Bane? | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:11 Crusnik wrote: I'm going to ignore how blatantly bullshit the majority of that post is and instead focus on TF. How would they make him "balanced for competitive"? If they buffed anything on him, he would nearly immediately go back to 100% pick/ban in OGN/LPL/GPL just because of his ultimate. He might be fine in NA/EU just because there aren't nearly as many mechanical midlaners that would take the weak laning phase without the lategame carry potential that you would get as say, Kassadin. I'm kinda curious how you could actually balance a champion having a global ultimate that gives true sight, except through Paranoia, with his stun and waveclear/splitpushing with his Wildcard+Lich Bane? By having another champion that ALSO have ridiculous strengths that can be exploited to completely destroy the opposing team's will to live. In fact, have 40, 50, 60 of them. Then this game might actually be fun again. Who cares if you can destroy lanes and assert global pressure and split push like a God when there's another hero that can do something equally ridiculous but completely different? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:16 Ketara wrote: It sounds to me like Cheep prefers the way DotA is balanced! Everyone who's not stupid prefers the way DotA is balanced over failing to balance it the way they're intending to balance it. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
Getting over 1,500 gold from in it in a 35 minute game I'm really bad at support | ||
Harem
United States11390 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:08 Ketara wrote: I'm not sure I understand how he's lying? Maybe you could explain? The stuff you quoted seems very reasonable and well thought out to me, aside from possibly the Fiora comment, which is sort of a half truth. Err, the TF change? It was just a particle change and he is acting like a politician how it is the greatest thing ever. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: By having another champion that ALSO have ridiculous strengths that can be exploited to completely destroy the opposing team's will to live. In fact, have 40, 50, 60 of them. Then this game might actually be fun again. Who cares if you can destroy lanes and assert global pressure and split push like a God when there's another hero that can do something equally ridiculous but completely different? DotA is pretty nice you know. LoL is just a completely different game, and while it doesn't mean Riot has the best or even a good design philosophy, it looks pretty reasonable balance and fun wise. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:05 fantasticoranges wrote: My only real problem with his champions is that he releases them, and the basic idea behind their kit is cool and wonderful and he adds bullshit bonuses to every skill did zyra really need the free 20% cdr did darius really need the armor pen does yasuo actually need double crit does thresh actually need that autoattack damage enhancer like wtf i like most of certainlyt's champs quite a bit, and this is the best description of his design style i've ever read | ||
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
I know Draven is viable as well, but I can't play him and haven't put the time into learning him since I don't think it's worthwhile. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:17 Harem wrote: Err, the TF change? It was just a particle change and he is acting like a politician how it is the greatest thing ever. This is the change he's talking about: What it does is make it so a novice player (lets say somebody who has never played TF) has a better understanding of the card cycle and what's going to come next in said cycle. A veteran player (lets say everybody who reads this forum) already knows that cycle, so doesn't see it as changing anything at all. So, I can understand why that change would be designed to help balance TF across multiple levels of play. It's a great change. Why isn't it a great change? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
This change has absolutely nothing to do with balance. This change is the equivalent of saying "we made Veigar's Dark Matter hot pink instead of black, and this will really help us balance Veigar." | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On February 28 2014 10:27 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I have no comments about the change, and you are trying to conflate a separate issue into one in some stupid attempt to "prove a point" (you don't have one), because you have no idea what you're talking about. This change has absolutely nothing to do with balance. Actually, controls and ease of use are part of balance. If not, Meepo would be first pick in every DotA game yo. | ||
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