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[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 112

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EU LCS Week 8 Review
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
March 14 2014 07:36 GMT
#2221
Pick Darius and chop croc's head off.
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4121 Posts
March 14 2014 08:25 GMT
#2222
I wouldn't pick shyv or shen into a crocodile :O I can't see how they can win this matchup, they can try to not lose it and scale better but other than that... With the doran shield nerf Croc isn't completely unbeatable any more, yes he's still the most versatile top but you can crush crocodiles if you know how to play the yordle bully trio (teemo/lulu/kennen).

As for picking darius.... yeah you'll win 1v1 but you'll get ganked and die and when the croc will get ganked he will just slice and.... dice !
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-14 08:27:30
March 14 2014 08:27 GMT
#2223
Rumble can out trade rek if you know what you're doing. His level 4 is just as strong as rek's and his flame thrower is on a shorter CD than rek's Q.
im deaf
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
March 14 2014 09:10 GMT
#2224
our top laner, XL Trojan, insists that Shen beats Renekton in lane. He generally does pretty well, although I can not confirm whether he is right or not.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
March 14 2014 10:00 GMT
#2225
My friend is a Shen main in plat and he regularly crushes Renektons when we duo just by straight up rushing sunfire

It helps that I'm a jungle main and usually get him a kill but he once won a lane where Renek stole my red at level 1 by just killing him straight up over and over
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
March 14 2014 11:09 GMT
#2226
On March 14 2014 18:10 Scip wrote:
our top laner, XL Trojan, insists that Shen beats Renekton in lane. He generally does pretty well, although I can not confirm whether he is right or not.

I'm not YOUR toplaner anymore ? :'(
The legend of Darien lives on
schmutttt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia3856 Posts
March 14 2014 11:26 GMT
#2227
How does Shen crush Renekton? Renekton out pushes him really hard and does much more damage early game. I'm only gold 1 but as someone who has played Renekton a lot I have never lost the lane ever. I don't think renek hardcounters Shen but I can't see how Shen has the advantage.

As for champs that beat renek jayce and teemo do particularly well.
LilCiggy
Profile Joined August 2012
64 Posts
March 14 2014 11:39 GMT
#2228
Tankraka beats Renekton in lane in my experience, or at least goes even.
Duvon
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden2360 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-14 12:08:54
March 14 2014 12:08 GMT
#2229
Shens lasthits under tower are godlike though.
W negates a lot of damage and Q is decent range meaning trades are all-or-nothing for Renekton, since Shen won't have to be in wave to lasthit.
At least in another lowlies observations.
Nothing is impossible, only some things for some people.
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-14 12:42:53
March 14 2014 12:30 GMT
#2230
Wasnt it always Jax>shen>renek>jax? Cause shen becomes too tanky after his first item for renek and can trade with vorpal blade pretty well? I personally have never felt much trouble against reneks, but i have rarely not got atleast 1 gank on top lane due to shens dash lol Everybody likes to gank for that
Also a well played kennen shits on renek.

Do you guys think jayce will return to competitive? Monte keeps saying how ryze will come back and i can definitely understand why he thinks so, but it feels like jayce wont make much of comeback. Kennen has always been a good pick imo and i hope he is coming back, but i just dont see jayce doing much with the nerf of his poke. Regardless of the better tear stacking.
Maybe a high level jayce player can explain to me if there is anyway he can be of use outside of winning his lane? Cause i would definitely love to practice him beside my kennen for the current meta(getting bored of renek and dont like playing ryze)

edit: I feel like as shen you just need to watch out not to get all-inned heavily with a renek ult, which really shouldnt happen, and you are good to go. He shouldnt be able to really crush you except if you misplay early on and get into a fury trade. As shen you can whittle him down very well after your first item, but i assume it comes down to a jungle ganks. But why wouldnt your jungler gank atleast once for you pre-6? You are shen after all lol
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 14 2014 12:36 GMT
#2231
I feel like if Jayce comes back that it'll be in mid.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 14 2014 12:40 GMT
#2232
--- Nuked ---
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
March 14 2014 12:46 GMT
#2233
On March 14 2014 21:36 Gahlo wrote:
I feel like if Jayce comes back that it'll be in mid.


Isnt his poke inferior to other mid lane picks?But i assume his gate utility might come in handy for koreans. I just always feel like at some point it is just really hard to use half of your spells due to not being able to go melee in straight up fights and i feel like a different pick could do more.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 14 2014 12:54 GMT
#2234
On March 14 2014 21:46 Bam Lee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 21:36 Gahlo wrote:
I feel like if Jayce comes back that it'll be in mid.


Isnt his poke inferior to other mid lane picks?But i assume his gate utility might come in handy for koreans. I just always feel like at some point it is just really hard to use half of your spells due to not being able to go melee in straight up fights and i feel like a different pick could do more.

His harrass is also weaker than the top harrassers(kennen, for example.) I just don't see it working out well for any champion in top that needs to buy itself into sustain and out of mana limits.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-14 13:03:30
March 14 2014 13:02 GMT
#2235
On March 14 2014 18:10 Scip wrote:
our top laner, XL Trojan, insists that Shen beats Renekton in lane. He generally does pretty well, although I can not confirm whether he is right or not.


From my experience, Shen beats Renekton early, peak at like level 5 then at 6 he gets ult and u cant really do anything until level 9. Shen can always safe-farm with Q and maybe try to outplay him with taunt when he pushes in.


What's his build like? Sunfire? Tri-force?
hi
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
March 14 2014 13:37 GMT
#2236
After watching all these pro games everywhere that have been happening (both super weeks ogn ect), I am starting to think that Banshee's is a little too good. It's one of those items that all 5 members of the team seem to be getting by the 30/40 minute mark, and its basicly a get out of jail free card for any of your normal engage type support/junglers.

Am I crazy for thinking this? Or does anyone else think the same thing?
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
March 14 2014 13:52 GMT
#2237
On March 14 2014 21:54 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 21:46 Bam Lee wrote:
On March 14 2014 21:36 Gahlo wrote:
I feel like if Jayce comes back that it'll be in mid.


Isnt his poke inferior to other mid lane picks?But i assume his gate utility might come in handy for koreans. I just always feel like at some point it is just really hard to use half of your spells due to not being able to go melee in straight up fights and i feel like a different pick could do more.

His harrass is also weaker than the top harrassers(kennen, for example.) I just don't see it working out well for any champion in top that needs to buy itself into sustain and out of mana limits.


Ah yeah well i guess we can agree on that. I definitely see him as a stronger pick in mid than in top as well
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
March 14 2014 14:14 GMT
#2238
With FoN removed there are only 2 choices for "generic" MR: Banshee's and SV.
Wit's end is meh (stacking MR when magic damage is often ranged frontloaded burst?) to shit and doesn't scale well, Hexdrinker is situational and slot-ineffective w/o scaling well, QSS you buy mainly for the active, GA you pay more to come back once dead than not to die to begin with (plus it's only resistances which are inferior to HP).

SV was situational for champions liking CDR and/or making use of the healing passive, since with Cowl being introduced the difference was 20 hp5, 10% CDR, enhanced healing passive vs 50 HP, spellshield, hp5 on damage passive.
Banshee's heals you for ~90 HP over 10 seconds on damage, SV naturally regens you for 48 HP over 10 seconds (plus 20% of existing hp5 I guess) so the hp5 can be ignored, you're left with CDR+enhanced healing vs spellshield.
Once down to 10% CDR it's not enough to buy the item as a CDR source since it's hard to find CDR for bruisers now (unless jungling), and for the vast majority of champions the enhanced healing is useless (doesn't work on ally heals). There are some who can make use of it, but apart from cases like Mundo or Aatrox (SV works on his passive, dunno about Zac) it's a side bonus more than anything, so when shit like Nidalee, LB, Elise, Gragas, Vi is popular (or even Fizz and Ahri but they're not) the spellshield becomes much more valuable than healing a bit better.

TL;DR: it's a mix of meta and overnerfed SV. When even junglers like Vi or laners like Jax bought SV every time, the fights were much more bruisery than right now, and the additional sustain helped. But now with LB casually sniping people the spellshield becomes very valuable and even if you removed it SV doesn't bring much on its own anymore.
Riot nerfed SV about when champions that'd make Banshee's preferred to pre-nerf SV emerged, I guess they should have let the meta evolve and watched people switch to Banshee's on their own. Now bruisers' CDR itemisation is borked and that's all.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
March 14 2014 14:43 GMT
#2239
I used to slowly bully renekton's off the waves with Kennen way back before either of them were FotM (after the kennen nerfs & before OP dshield) but it was still a difficult matchup becuase if I got caught once and died the lane was lost. I'm looking forward to bringing back my Kennen top now that dshield has been scaled back. Is dblade still the best starting item for Kennen toplane?
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
March 14 2014 14:44 GMT
#2240
You might see more Locket coming into vogue as a CDR/MR/HP item but I agree with Alaric. Just yesterday I played a game as Nasus where the enemy AP laners got fed. Now what do you do as Nasus? Traditionally you'd just rush the Spirit Visage and enjoy the CDR + MR, but now I rushed Kindlegem -> Banshee's Veil -> Spirit Visage, a very awkward build path for sure.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
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