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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On January 28 2014 10:07 mr_tolkien wrote: People hate faceroll lane-bullies with minimal ressource management. Renekton/Teemo/Yorick go easily in that niche. Yorick doesn't lane bully that hard anymore.  | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On January 28 2014 10:07 mr_tolkien wrote: People hate faceroll lane-bullies with minimal ressource management. Renekton/Teemo/Yorick go easily in that niche. No offense, but as somebody who has mained top at a pretty high level this is a view a person can only have at low level play or from reading too much reddit. Against good players Teemo has one of the most challenging laning phases of any top laner. There is literally no character who requires more consistently excellent positioning and judgement. It is always easy to tell when people have no idea what they are talking about with Teemo because public opinion is almost the exact opposite of the truth. His laning phase is super rough but is team fight and objective control is really strong if your allies can engage or force your opponent to engage. He also scales insanely well but is really only viable now because of the 2-3 tank meta and new masteries, losing oracles is just icing on the cake. I love the little guy but I am convinced most people are frustrated because they consider him a troll pick when he is actually conditionally top tier. The low expectations makes him always exceed them which leads to anger. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On January 28 2014 11:32 Velocirapture wrote: No offense, but as somebody who has mained top at a pretty high level this is a view a person can only have at low level play or from reading too much reddit. Against good players Teemo has one of the most challenging laning phases of any top laner. There is literally no character who requires more consistently excellent positioning and judgement. It is always easy to tell when people have no idea what they are talking about with Teemo because public opinion is almost the exact opposite of the truth. His laning phase is super rough but is team fight and objective control is really strong if your allies can engage or force your opponent to engage. He also scales insanely well but is really only viable now because of the 2-3 tank meta and new masteries, losing oracles is just icing on the cake. I love the little guy but I am convinced most people are frustrated because they consider him a troll pick when he is actually conditionally top tier. The low expectations makes him always exceed them which leads to anger. The hardest laning phase of any top laner? You speak in hyperboles too much. If Teemo is out of position he just pops W and he's fine, I don't get why he's THE MOST challenging. Sure it's not like... pick Teemo and bam you win lane, but you have the advantage over many popular top laners in poking without being poked back. Try Nasus vs Olaf if you truly think Teemo has the hardest laning phase for top lane matchups. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Downside: Squishy Upside: Hybrid damage DOT Speed boost Blind Turns top lane into the 9th circle of hell when he hits 6 Invisibility (you can push, pretend to back but go invisible in a bush, when the enemy pushes back your jungler ganks and then you come out nowhere for a free kill BLAM) If you're an idiot and fight someone who can kill you in an all-in, sure Teemo is "hard", but his lane phase is a 6 lane highway compared to the tightrope that is some other matchups. | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On January 28 2014 11:37 Zdrastochye wrote: The hardest laning phase of any top laner? You speak in hyperboles too much. If Teemo is out of position he just pops W and he's fine, I don't get why he's THE MOST challenging. Sure it's not like... pick Teemo and bam you win lane, but you have the advantage over many popular top laners in poking without being poked back. Try Nasus vs Olaf if you truly think Teemo has the hardest laning phase for top lane matchups. Your reading comprehension is not so good "one of the most" is not "the most". Teemo's W is not nearly the lifesaver most think it is. The simple fact of the matter is thae most top tier top laners have gap closing mechanics that absolutely ride the line with Teemo's 500 range and MS boost. Teemo has incredibly low base MS for a top laner (Teemo with boots has the same MS as Panth with no boots) and prioritizing W over blinding dart comes with its own challenges. Every single high tier top laner has strong all in potential or creates strong gank potential through disables. Teemo CAN play against these champions with appropriate team comps but it requires absolutely perfect positioning and game sense. Even the whole "level 6 terror" factor takes time to ramp up and can be mitigated by competent play until the laning phase ends. Meanwhile the danger to Teemo at level 6 is immediate and considerable in most cases. I have played a lot of top laners at the high plat to low diamond 1 levels and I stand by my assessment of Teemo. There are individual matchups with uniquely challenging interactions (just like how I wouldn't play AP teemo into Yorick) but if you want to throw teemo into the pool of top tier competitively viable champs this is how I see it. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On January 28 2014 12:12 ticklishmusic wrote: I'd argue in the opposite direction-- Teemo has one of the easiest laning phases of any top laner. Downside: Squishy Upside: Hybrid damage DOT Speed boost Blind Turns top lane into the 9th circle of hell when he hits 6 Invisibility (you can push, pretend to back but go invisible in a bush, when the enemy pushes back your jungler ganks and then you come out nowhere for a free kill BLAM) If you're an idiot and fight someone who can kill you in an all-in, sure Teemo is "hard", but his lane phase is a 6 lane highway compared to the tightrope that is some other matchups. except with new dshield+masteries, teemo doesn't harass nearly as hard. Teemo's damage output is honestly not great early on, especially without shrooms. There's a reason why C9 put Teemo mid rather than top. He also dies to all-ins very easily especially in a world where gap closers are everywhere. A simple speed boost isn't enough against laners like Shyvana or Mundo with his cleaver perma-slow. I also rarely see Teemos put more than 1 point in it early on. On top of that, it's honestly pretty hard to use your ult as anything other than gank deterence in lane if your opponent is smart and just stays out of the side bushes. I also wouldn't say he has hybrid damage considering how all his skills do magic damage and I very rarely see people building him AD outside of a casual Dblade. Hybrid damage is more like Shyvana. I mean, you wouldn't consider Kennen hybrid damage would you? I'm also not sure how DOT is an upside... | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Now without oracles, the objective control of AP teeto just too gud. Which also means his top lane is less favorable, since AP Teemo is pretty bad up there against all the all-ins. | ||
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Yezzus
United States2318 Posts
On January 28 2014 13:47 Lord Tolkien wrote: His top lane use to be hybrid on-hit. Would build shit like BorK etc, and devote solely to splitpushing. That's where his terror top-lane matchups come from. Now without oracles, the objective control of AP teeto just too gud. Which also means his top lane is less favorable, since AP Teemo is pretty bad up there against all the all-ins. I think now AP teemo is the only way to go, the damage is insane | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On January 28 2014 13:49 Yezzus wrote: I think now AP teemo is the only way to go, the damage is insane Yep, yep. The removal of Oracles was a massive buff to his objective control. AP Teeto also has a weaker top-lane build path than the on-hit build (which would otherwise be something like BorK-Mallet-Wits-???). | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 28 2014 13:51 Lord Tolkien wrote: Yep, yep. The removal of Oracles was a massive buff to his objective control. AP Teeto also has a weaker top-lane build path than the on-hit build (which would otherwise be something like BorK-Mallet-Wits-???). It's not so bad if you supplement early drings with dblades instead. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 28 2014 13:47 Lord Tolkien wrote: His top lane use to be hybrid on-hit. Would build shit like BorK etc, and devote solely to splitpushing. That's where his terror top-lane matchups come from. Now without oracles, the objective control of AP teeto just too gud. Which also means his top lane is less favorable, since AP Teemo is pretty bad up there against all the all-ins. You hit my feelings on the head for why teemo top is unlikely to be competitive any time soon. Top needs to be able to survive 2v1 dives whenever drag is down, and needs to be able to affect fights at dragon by roaming. The second part is the worse one for teemo top, because he can't set up, and is pretty vulnerable to being picked on his way to drag compared to a fat toplane. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On January 28 2014 14:00 wei2coolman wrote: It's not so bad if you supplement early drings with dblades instead. That's the same with other popular AP top laners like Nidalee and Kennen (not vlad tho). | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
With anything that has gapclosers I feel it is quite hard. Then there is Teemo vs Darius.... | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On January 28 2014 14:12 cLutZ wrote: You hit my feelings on the head for why teemo top is unlikely to be competitive any time soon. Top needs to be able to survive 2v1 dives whenever drag is down, and needs to be able to affect fights at dragon by roaming. The second part is the worse one for teemo top, because he can't set up, and is pretty vulnerable to being picked on his way to drag compared to a fat toplane. Does blind affect Khazix Q? If so that might be a good mid match up for Teemo. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On January 28 2014 15:03 Sufficiency wrote: I think if you lane Teemo agajnst Nasus or Trundld you can probaly just play with one hand. With anything that has gapclosers I feel it is quite hard. Then there is Teemo vs Darius.... I've won it. It's a very, VERY razor's edge matchup. aka dance around Apprehend range. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Teemo loses to Kha'Zix, same reason why he loses to Renekton. Kha'Zix EQW pre-6. If you try to kite, he'll chase long enough to get a second Q in. If you full retreat, he's done the damage already. I don't see how Teemo can trade vs that kind of gap closing burst. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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Steins;Gate
1422 Posts
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