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On December 17 2013 08:09 Slusher wrote:
that wouldn't really change much outside of being a stealth buff to snowballing supports like Leona and Annie, BF money is pretty easy to come by when you are going for your 6th item I can't imagine ever buying a cloak first. so you'd still have to sit on 2200 gold even if BF was a combine item.
I was going on the "make IE a more attractive first item" line of thinking.
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2.4k HP and 150 MR Irelia, nearly 100-0 by Veigar (rest came from Fiddle's Dark Wind and a Mundo cleaver during the stun).
The teamfight before, he "only" did a bit over half. His ult did 1121 damage alone (he was uberfed, smurf game again and people didn't listen to "don't come/farm you're 2 levels behind them" etc.).
Buying a voidstaff is scary. x_x
(Also Irelia really does suck even more in s4 but that's another thing entirely. Still makes me sad as she was my very first top champ and one of my mains for super long, then alongside Jax/Panth/Olaf.)
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it's more of a defensive issue, bf in lane + lifesteal quints is enough to force farmfest, it actually has almost nothing to do with your 1st item timing why BF is so popular (at least for me) it has to do with the fact that at best I can get a BT after zeal+LW if I go IE first meaning I will have to deal with Shy/Olaf/Mundo running at me un-cc able at 100mph before my bt is done and I'm not interested in taking that risk.
not to mention the only a tier (in my mind) adc with 600+ range is Varus and his Q and E ratios are more than enough to justify the safer item route.
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Irelia sucked since like mid s2. Not just s4
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She didn't suck all that much in s3—she was somewhat playable for a bit if you will, and was hurt more by the 1v2 meta (competitively) than by the popular laners, her shortcomings lied more in the teamfighting stage.
But with all the other changes even her laning is weaker now, it's a bit sad.
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on todays pbe notes they are nerfing SV and sunfire. but not really in a huge way, they will probably still be core items in the same situation as live.
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I'm really surprised she didn't even see play when Kennen was the "if you can't beat me you aren't viable" of top lane.
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A lot of people whine about irelia no longer being played but tbh I don't mind. She was such a bitch to play against when she was popular. Un-cc able with massive true damage plus can't be pushed out of lane cause of retarded sustain. Kinda like Olaf except with more sustain.
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thinking about it in a way I haven't before I'd have to say that the repeated nerfs of Doran's blades has killed IE first builds more than anything 3hp/auto +60hp just does not compare to 100hp and 3%lifesteal (it's hard to believe this item existed at this point how OP lol)
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On December 17 2013 08:26 Slusher wrote:
thinking about it in a way I haven't before I'd have to say that the repeated nerfs of Doran's blades has killed IE first builds more than anything 3hp/auto +60hp just does not compare to 100hp and 3%lifesteal (it's hard to believe this item existed at this point how OP lol)
I still remember the old days of season 1 dorans. God those items were op
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'dunno, I have trouble distinguishing Irelia's long cd dps-oriented true damage compared to the close-to-true-damage from Elise, the "what's counterplay?" Jayce, or the "we put a high skill ceiling but we forgot about the skill floor along the way/tinkered with it through buffs" affecting Zed, Kha'Zix, Riven, and a bit Ahri and Fizz.
Would you rather lane against pre-nerf Zac, Nasus, Zed, or simply Renekton, than Irelia? It's not like she also happen to have something akin to a powercurve, that's becoming pretty rare amongst non-tanks.
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bruiser kass with max w sounds ridiculous with 180 bonus magic damage at lvl 9. combined with his passive, it sounds like he'd be super brutal at 6, and just run around beating up mages.
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Dnno, Swain is sort of fun. We are like pushing mid inhibitor and the team is like poking and whatnot, then I come with Zhonyas and am like "come" and walk under their turret, spam skills and and then zhonyas, easiest inhibitor.
It's also cool to be at like 30% hp and Zhonyas while surrounded by enemies and get back to full while everyone dies.
On December 17 2013 08:32 Shiznick wrote:
bruiser kass with max w sounds ridiculous with 180 bonus magic damage at lvl 9. combined with his passive, it sounds like he'd be super brutal at 6, and just run around beating up mages.
Don't really see why you'd need to build Bruiser, current Kass builds can melee just fine. The alteration I'll make is just getting Lich Bane.
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Considering the Kass tweak (not sure its a nerf or not) on PBE, feel like Nashor could be a great buy on him now. His auto now has a 90+0.4 ap boost (0.6 with nashor+spellblade). His passive is also an AS steroid. With max cdr and max rank, 3sec w makes him looking like an ap jax, with infinite amount of damaging gap-closers and two utility spells.
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51544 Posts
When a team 'buys' an LCS spot, what exactly is the process? Do the prospecting teams just throw money at the other organization or what?
Feels so stupid rich organizations can just buy their way into LCS now.
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I don't see why you'd now buy Nashor's tooth if you weren't before, to be honest.
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On December 17 2013 08:28 Alaric wrote:
'dunno, I have trouble distinguishing Irelia's long cd dps-oriented true damage compared to the close-to-true-damage from Elise, the "what's counterplay?" Jayce, or the "we put a high skill ceiling but we forgot about the skill floor along the way/tinkered with it through buffs" affecting Zed, Kha'Zix, Riven, and a bit Ahri and Fizz.
Would you rather lane against pre-nerf Zac, Nasus, Zed, or simply Renekton, than Irelia? It's not like she also happen to have something akin to a powercurve, that's becoming pretty rare amongst non-tanks.
Pre-nerf Irelia is up there with Zac, Zed, Renekton. She was absolutely retarded to lane against. Once she hit level ~3 you virtually could not lane against her unless you were playing another OP champ (aka pre-nerf GP, Renekton, or Udyr) since she would out-trade you, out-sustain you, and be able to chase you down and kill you. On the off chance that you got ahead, she had great disengage with her E. Plus, by the time she hits 6, you might as well give up harassing her since she healed to full health every other minion wave with her ult if W wasn't enough. Even Mundo ult only heals 40% max hp at the cost of 20% of ur current hp. On top of that, she reduces all cc by almost half in teamfights for free with no trade-off meaning she could dive like a monster. Irelia could afford to build almost pure tank and still do mad damage due to her true damage W.
The better nerf Irelia meme and how bad of a pick Irelia is now is justified and all, but I think a lot of people are forgetting how truly fucking retarded pre-nerf Irelia was.
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On December 17 2013 08:53 Shikyo wrote:
I don't see why you'd now buy Nashor's tooth if you weren't before, to be honest.
How doesn't it make sense? They literally doubled his passive magic damage on hit, improving the synergy with nashors, while nerfing his burst combo making him more reliant on his passive as well.
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Since w cd is not short enough (12s) to make nahsor worth. And qe are better spells to itemize towards.
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On December 17 2013 08:59 lega wrote:
Since w cd is not short enough (12s) to make nahsor worth. And qe are better spells to itemize towards.
It scales down to 5 seconds which is pretty short. With capped cdr it's up very often.
Currently, Kass will use R/W as part of the burst rotation for small skirmishes, but in teamfights it's far too risky to use R/W except on isolated targets or to clean up as he's naturally pretty squishy, especially after the removal of scaling base MR. Bruiser/tanky Kass could be legit with max cdr/lichbane builds to abuse W and use Q/E purely for cc.
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EPT
