EPT[Patch 3.15] Yasuo General Discussion - Page 100
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On December 25 2013 15:51 ItsFunToLose wrote: trundle counters singed with or without cowl. nothing stopped him from rushing negatron and ignoring him in s3/2? True enough, but Cowl definitely makes it worse. Trundle is one of the best top laners IMO these days. The only lane I've had the slightest trouble with so far in ranked is Vladimir and that's just because I couldn't easily kill him (he becomes immune to pillar slow once he Pools, so he can escape pretty easily), only chase him away and kill his tower. Mundo, Shyvana, Rengar and Riven I've beaten. He's a bully right from level 1 and after 6 can duel virtually anyone. And if he can't 1v2 a gank (often he can), he can always escape by popping his full combo and then running. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 25 2013 14:54 Sufficiency wrote: Spectre's Cowl needs a nerf. When top laners would buy this item first against other mixed damage top laners I think it's a really good indication that this item is broken. I am not sure how this can be achieved though. The best I can think of is to make Spectre's Cowl (it's called Cowl, not Cloak, damn it) build from NMM and Ruby Crystal instead, with nerfed regen starts, and have Spirit Visage require an extra NMM. I think it's just the mixed damage champ does literally half magic, and half physical. The only difference is, SV gives you 20% cdr, and increased healing, while sunfire gives you aoe splitpush, which most champs already have. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:07 Ryuu314 wrote: Yea iunno why Trundle isn't picked up more in competitive play. His kit is like...tailor made for this meta. Huge steroid on W, R basically destroys tanks like Shyv, Mundo, Rengar while making Trundle tanky as all hell. He doesn't really have mana issues either. Mmmmmm I'll keep this in mind. Top Lane right now makes me want to bash my head against a wall currently. Shyv/Mundo/Nasus/Tank Rengar going SV/Sunfire every single game. If not them, then I'll fight a Riven or something. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:07 Ryuu314 wrote: Yea iunno why Trundle isn't picked up more in competitive play. His kit is like...tailor made for this meta. Huge steroid on W, R basically destroys tanks like Shyv, Mundo, Rengar while making Trundle tanky as all hell. He doesn't really have mana issues either. I was watching Phreak's stream shortly after worlds and he was talking about how he thinks competitive top players have poor champion pools. He cited how Jax was a problem that nobody seemed to know how to deal with, then listed off a handful of strong champions that would have been fringe picks that could have easily taken care of him. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
Consider support Annie. I can't say I ever saw it before Worlds - maybe it was a thing in China (someone verify?), but nowhere else. Royal got to show it off in a game or two and wrecked face, but then it was banned in every single game against them after that. Now it is a ubiquitous pick, but what good did it do Royal Club to bring out such a powerful new champion at Worlds? They gained nothing from it except a ban from their opponents. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:26 Gahlo wrote: I was watching Phreak's stream shortly after worlds and he was talking about how he thinks competitive top players have poor champion pools. He cited how Jax was a problem that nobody seemed to know how to deal with, then listed off a handful of strong champions that would have been fringe picks that could have easily taken care of him. What? that's bull shit. you picked Renekton, then you donkey dumpster all over Jax, I'm pretty sure that was THE pick to deal with Jax, and still be useful overall. On December 25 2013 16:43 Alzadar wrote: The ban system doesn't reward pros for learning fringe picks - they are actively discouraged from it. Consider support Annie. I can't say I ever saw it before Worlds - maybe it was a thing in China (someone verify?), but nowhere else. Royal got to show it off in a game or two and wrecked face, but then it was banned in every single game against them after that. Now it is a ubiquitous pick, but what good did it do Royal Club to bring out such a powerful new champion at Worlds? They gained nothing from it except a ban from their opponents. If your getting people to ban Annie, you can play thresh, or whatever bullshit op'd they didn't ban. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:50 wei2coolman wrote: What? that's bull shit. you picked Renekton, then you donkey dumpster all over Jax, I'm pretty sure that was THE pick to deal with Jax, and still be useful overall. That's the point. How many people picked Renekton into Jax? | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:49 Sufficiency wrote: I think you can make that argument about Syndra and Fizz, which took a very long time to develop due to their high skill ceiling, but honestly Annie is not that hard to play. If you have to spend a ban on Annie every game regsrdless blue or red I feel it is your team's support player's fault to choose to not learn something new. Eh. I'm not sure I agree. Syndra was unplayed because she was weak on release. After a few buffs and qol changes she was very strong, but was not a good pick in the assassin heavy meta. Fizz went unplayed competitively for the longest time because of a HUGE bug with his E which would occasionally do no damage. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On December 25 2013 16:26 Gahlo wrote: I was watching Phreak's stream shortly after worlds and he was talking about how he thinks competitive top players have poor champion pools. He cited how Jax was a problem that nobody seemed to know how to deal with, then listed off a handful of strong champions that would have been fringe picks that could have easily taken care of him. trundle in general is massively sleeper OP. one of the best duelists in the game and would work well in a sieging comp alongside ziggs who is first pick/ban right now. | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On December 25 2013 17:16 Gahlo wrote: That's the point. How many people picked Renekton into Jax? Everyone? Except Renekton was perma-banned in the finals; advanced tactix yo | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On December 25 2013 17:25 turdburgler wrote: trundle in general is massively sleeper OP. one of the best duelists in the game and would work well in a sieging comp alongside ziggs who is first pick/ban right now. I completely agree. Also, did some digging into the bracket stage at worlds, picking out the games where both Renekton and Jax showed up in pick bans. Royal v OMG: 1 Jax pick(by Royal) into Renekton Royal v Fnatic: 1 Jax pick(by Royal) after Fnatic banned Renekton SKT v Najin Sword: 2 Jax pick into Shen, 2 Renekton pick into Jax(both by SKT), 1 Jax Ban Finals: SKT picked Jax all 3 games and banned Renekton all 3. On December 25 2013 17:30 Schwopzi wrote: Everyone? Except Renekton was perma-banned in the finals; advanced tactix yo Which goes back to the point of poor champion pools by top laners. If Jax is really sucha problem, why only prepare 1 check to him? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 25 2013 17:16 Gahlo wrote: That's the point. How many people picked Renekton into Jax? Everyone. in regards to the 1 pick against Jax, if you go too far into lane counters, you end up with crappy teamcomps. Also, there are strategic counterplay instead of lane counters, such as 2v1 fast push lanes. Also, in regards to the "jax problem", lest i remind you that Riot made triforce change only like 2 or 3 weeks before World's. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35092 Posts
On December 25 2013 17:33 wei2coolman wrote: Everyone. in regards to the 1 pick against Jax, if you go too far into lane counters, you end up with crappy teamcomps. Also, there are strategic counterplay instead of lane counters, such as 2v1 fast push lanes. Also, in regards to the "jax problem", lest i remind you that Riot made triforce change only like 2 or 3 weeks before World's. And Jax has other counters than Renekton. It wasn't like Jax was a new champion where they had to conjure a counter from thin air. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Jax and Corki really came out of nowhere for S3 worlds, which was why they were so dominant. If the Triforce changes came out a month earlier (or if they never happened at all), I highly doubt those two would've been so dominant as people would've prepped and had counterpicks ready. | ||
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Crusnik
United States5378 Posts
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On December 25 2013 17:31 Gahlo wrote: I completely agree. Also, did some digging into the bracket stage at worlds, picking out the games where both Renekton and Jax showed up in pick bans. Royal v OMG: 1 Jax pick(by Royal) into Renekton Royal v Fnatic: 1 Jax pick(by Royal) after Fnatic banned Renekton SKT v Najin Sword: 2 Jax pick into Shen, 2 Renekton pick into Jax(both by SKT), 1 Jax Ban Finals: SKT picked Jax all 3 games and banned Renekton all 3. Which goes back to the point of poor champion pools by top laners. If Jax is really sucha problem, why only prepare 1 check to him? I don't know if you have ever tried to expand your champ pool yourself but I have and there comes a point where it feels untenable. It is my experience that somewhere around 5 champions every additional champion starts to dilute your play of the others. Note I am not talking about competence, I am talking about complete mastery. I also find that the champions a player can reasonably master are not always completely open ended. It is sort of like Starcraft where pros can play every race but have a personal synergy with the play style of one over the others which enables a higher level of play. Certain champions just work for certain players and if those champions go out of vogue so do they. The big example of this for me is Nyjacky who was the master of Morgana and completely fell apart in s3 when the meta shifted from utility mages to league of assassins. This all has me feeling that saint has the right idea. Tons of our old institutions like Dyrus and Saint have tried time and time again to slowly transition their champion pools from one FotM to the next and have failed. I think the whole NA scene would be better off if guys like these took a split off to completely refresh their perspective. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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