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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On November 21 2013 13:43 wei2coolman wrote: 6 item. With aoe dmg, and 700 range... dunno how you could say that's not amazing. She also snowballs fights hard, dat ms is ridic. Because the aoe of the rockets is low and her base attack speed + gain is horrendous | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On November 21 2013 16:30 Ryuu314 wrote: Eh. I think the biscuiteer mastery in utility will be picked up a lot across all roles. Ya the extra sustain that "culinary master" + "alchemist" give is pretty ridiculous for 2 points cost and 9 in utility. I would imagine in alot of cases of that someone who has these masteries over those who don't will just win lane based off the more efficient sustain, so long as the trades are not completely one-sided against them. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 21 2013 16:46 DonKey_ wrote: Ya the extra sustain that "culinary master" + "alchemist" give is pretty ridiculous for 2 points cost and 9 in utility. I would imagine in alot of cases of that someone who has these masteries over those who don't will just win lane based off the more efficient sustain, so long as the trades are not completely one-sided against them. Wasn't it riot's whole design philosophy in s2 that sustain early game was toxic? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 21 2013 15:54 Infundibulum wrote: Kinda sad about the utility tree changes. Few masteries in the tree are good for solo laners or junglers, and many seem designed with 0cs support in mind. I was hoping for something different. Probably the best masteries as support will again be a mix of offense/defense for laning power rather than the more intangible benefits of utility. But for varieties sake, I hope that's not 100% true I think the fundamental problem is that the support tree is this weird leftovers tree. There's so many things that you didn't need on a support like runic masteries or spell vamp or %mana junk or health regen junk. Early game you get instagibbed in one combo as some supports. The health regen is useless. There were nice things in the support tree but getting to them meant you needed to get things you didn't want to meet the prereqs. Now it seems like the support masteries actually have a goal. They want you to be able to get more gold. A build like this might seem worth getting now: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FkHlbOy.png) Imo the offense tree looks like it has more options too. We might see some 30-0-0s. I could definitely see something close to 30-0-0 being standard on damage dealers. mastries And the defense tree seems to have 10% slow reduction instead of 15% now. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Trying to think if the Second Wind passive is good enough to forgo either the Armor/MR trees in defense for certain champs that rely on sustain. Probably not unless you're Zac or Mundo tier, however. Alchemist/Culinary Master is pretty bonkers, however. It seems like a nerf to flask, though, as pots now have increased efficiency. Whether or not Alchemist affects Flask is a question. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
Really boring changes so far, nothing that excites me at least. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
I don't like offense tree, no more penetration on the 9 mark, so no real reason to invest in the tree if you're not getting 21+ points in it... | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Not sure how effective more niche mastery setups like 14/16/0 or the like will be now, however. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Cr4zyH0r5e
Peru1308 Posts
On November 21 2013 17:17 SagaZ wrote: I disagree, I think the 21 points in utility may work extremely well on some junglers, it's a lot of mvmt speed. I don't like offense tree, no more penetration on the 9 mark, so no real reason to invest in the tree if you're not getting 21+ points in it... They removed the faster exp gain, though. What's the point in going fast if you get no other tangible benefits from it? The reason I loved utility tree on hecarim is because I could go fast AND level up faster, making me reach midgame earlier and getting the stats (hp/armor/etc) from levels rather than from masteries. Without it I don't quite see the point of going utility unless your tankiness is already borderline op and you benefit more from running really fast at ppl. udyr comes to mind | ||
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On November 21 2013 16:52 wei2coolman wrote: Wasn't it riot's whole design philosophy in s2 that sustain early game was toxic? Ya that's the sort of language they used back then I think, but it did not really change much as top lanes who were sustain/resource-less have been popular since S2 and still are. Examples being: tryndamere, aatrox, riven, nasus, renekton, kennen, lee, rumble, shen. Some rare outliers would be champs like darius or kayle. edit: Then there's the whole D-blade and lifesteal quints bot we have seen for a while now. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 21 2013 17:49 DonKey_ wrote: Ya that's the sort of language they used back then I think, but it did not really change much as top lanes who were sustain/resource-less have been popular since S2 and still are. Examples being: tryndamere, aatrox, riven, nasus, renekton, kennen, lee, rumble, shen. Some rare outliers would be champs like darius or kayle. Not to mention they released rengar near endof s2 as well. :/ New masteries will be fun to figure out. So many changes to s4 Gunna be completely different game imo. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 21 2013 17:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: Alchemist/Culinary Master is pretty bonkers, however. It seems like a nerf to flask, though, as pots now have increased efficiency. Whether or not Alchemist affects Flask is a question. It's not just the increased pot efficiency, it's that you can effectively chain-pop potions for an effect equivalent to Magic Stick in DotA. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 21 2013 17:53 wei2coolman wrote: Not to mention they released rengar near endof s2 as well. :/ New masteries will be fun to figure out. So many changes to s4 Gunna be completely different game imo. In what way exactly? I highly doubt there will be a change in setups (ADC, Support, Top, Mid, Jungler). The only big change i can see right now, is the addition of junglers and supports previously played as something else. All they really did with these "big" changes was correct some of the larger mistakes in their mastery tree, fixing some of the "issues" for supports (well, most supports might see these changes in a negative way) and making the jungle more versatile. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On November 21 2013 17:54 TheYango wrote: It's not just the increased pot efficiency, it's that you can effectively chain-pop potions for an effect equivalent to Magic Stick in DotA. Yep. You can get a burst of 100 hp/50 mana, which is something which will be very hard for flask to compete with; sure, Flask+4 start MAY still work as a start, but after the initial start, the efficiency of just buying health pots outweighs flask. Plus, +15hp to health pot regen (185 effective hp gain per health pot). Very large early game incentive to to a 5-pot start now. Perhaps 10 pot starts for mana top lanes (+1 ward). All consumable starts oh gawd. Probably situational like Red Pot+3 or +1+ward, but the early sustaiiiiin. Thankfully can't start 13 pots anymore. Unless flask benefits from at least alchemist (which can help, but still), it's a pretty obsolescent item now bar extreme sustain cases top lane. EDIT: Apparently the CV trinkets are being disabled for creating invincible minions on the map. Riot Games: everything coded in minions. Especially Veigar. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
edit: pretty pissed they moved the two best masteries from def (block and unyielding) up to first and second tier. Now everyone is gonna get them and wont be able to surprise people by being unkillable lvl1. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
Are they starting the preseason after this patch? And if they are, they're not resetting anything until the 2014 season right? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On November 21 2013 18:04 Osmoses wrote: I'm gonna bring back jungle GP. If it sucks, I refuse to see it. edit: pretty pissed they moved the two best masteries from def (block and unyielding) up to first and second tier. Now everyone is gonna get them and wont be able to surprise people by being unkillable lvl1. It isn't anywhere as strong as it used to be though. | ||
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