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Turns out that Anivia mid + Zac top + Aatrox jungle + GA ADC is an annoying teamcomp to play against.
Also I don't think that Nasus can really afford to get Last Whisper. If he doesn't build super tanky he just dies instantly.
If you need to choose between Triforce and Last Whisper, the correct choice is always Triforce. It gives you movespeed which is amazing on Nasus, gives you higher damage against squshies, move survivability and so on. The only thing Last Whisper gives you is more damage against tanks but you have an enormous advantage over them in a brawl with your ultimate anyway.
Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit why did they disable the A41 mode?
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There's no "turns out", Gambit already showed it when they ran 3 GA casually before it was nerfed. And even then, they just gave Darien Aatrox, made Diamond play Zac, and get Darien to build a GA on top of it.
Turns out when we're talking about decently designed assassins and not absurd post-assassinatin dps machines like Zed, Riven or Kha'Zix, the GA passive for their whole combo tends to fuck up the compositios leaning on it.
On December 02 2013 17:47 killerdog wrote:
All champions unlocked too, so sivir is probably gonna become fotm in soloq again.
I hope heimer turns out to be secretly ridiculously op.
Eh, there are already a good chunk of nerfs on the PBE. Shield duration halved (3s was too long, though; but I'm thinking 1.5s is a bit short), ult sprint duration, general duration, and cooldown, and there was something else I believe.
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it was only on until tonight, said so in the original announcement post
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On December 02 2013 19:58 Shikyo wrote:
Turns out that Anivia mid + Zac top + Aatrox jungle + GA ADC is an annoying teamcomp to play against.
Also I don't think that Nasus can really afford to get Last Whisper. If he doesn't build super tanky he just dies instantly.
If you need to choose between Triforce and Last Whisper, the correct choice is always Triforce. It gives you movespeed which is amazing on Nasus, gives you higher damage against squshies, move survivability and so on. The only thing Last Whisper gives you is more damage against tanks but you have an enormous advantage over them in a brawl with your ultimate anyway.
Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit why did they disable the A41 mode?
LW on Nasus is pretty nuts, damage wise. Triforce is nearly twice as expensive and Nasus doesn't make good use of most of the stats.
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are mystery skins over or do we get one more day of them?
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On December 02 2013 21:18 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 19:58 Shikyo wrote:
Turns out that Anivia mid + Zac top + Aatrox jungle + GA ADC is an annoying teamcomp to play against.
Also I don't think that Nasus can really afford to get Last Whisper. If he doesn't build super tanky he just dies instantly.
If you need to choose between Triforce and Last Whisper, the correct choice is always Triforce. It gives you movespeed which is amazing on Nasus, gives you higher damage against squshies, move survivability and so on. The only thing Last Whisper gives you is more damage against tanks but you have an enormous advantage over them in a brawl with your ultimate anyway.
Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit why did they disable the A41 mode? LW on Nasus is pretty nuts, damage wise. Triforce is nearly twice as expensive and Nasus doesn't make good use of most of the stats.
nasus uses the sheen procs well, he has ap ratios (lol), all the stats zeal and phage give him are actually pretty useful. His real problem is moving fast, and that item lets him go really fast.
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On December 02 2013 19:58 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 19:51 turdburgler wrote:
why would you buy last whisper when you can get black cleaver and give armor pen to your team too. on nasus, who has no aoe physical damage and a built in aoe shred on his e?
doesnt matter though, black cleaver is 5% less armor pen and 10 more flat shred, so in most cases for your personal usage its pretty much a wash, trading some AD for some HP. but even getting 1-2 hits on to their bruiser who is diving your carry is a massive increase to team dps on to that target.
im not saying black cleaver is a core nasus item, i just dont see the value of last whisper when you can get black cleaver as a 6th item.
On December 02 2013 21:18 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 19:58 Shikyo wrote:
Turns out that Anivia mid + Zac top + Aatrox jungle + GA ADC is an annoying teamcomp to play against.
Also I don't think that Nasus can really afford to get Last Whisper. If he doesn't build super tanky he just dies instantly.
If you need to choose between Triforce and Last Whisper, the correct choice is always Triforce. It gives you movespeed which is amazing on Nasus, gives you higher damage against squshies, move survivability and so on. The only thing Last Whisper gives you is more damage against tanks but you have an enormous advantage over them in a brawl with your ultimate anyway.
Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit why did they disable the A41 mode? LW on Nasus is pretty nuts, damage wise. Triforce is nearly twice as expensive and Nasus doesn't make good use of most of the stats.
i think people really under value frost gauntlets  maybe im bad but i would rather have the armor and cdr (maybe useless depending on build) and the perma slow over a little run speed and a bit more damage from triforce. its also a less awkward item to build in lane as there is no wasted stat time.
wither isnt up 100% of the time, and even if it was i prefer the safety net of a back up slow.
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Nasus is easily the most broken as fuck top laner atm it really doesnt matter what you build on him as long as it has hp or resists.Dont even need damage.
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On December 02 2013 21:18 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 19:58 Shikyo wrote:
Turns out that Anivia mid + Zac top + Aatrox jungle + GA ADC is an annoying teamcomp to play against.
Also I don't think that Nasus can really afford to get Last Whisper. If he doesn't build super tanky he just dies instantly.
If you need to choose between Triforce and Last Whisper, the correct choice is always Triforce. It gives you movespeed which is amazing on Nasus, gives you higher damage against squshies, move survivability and so on. The only thing Last Whisper gives you is more damage against tanks but you have an enormous advantage over them in a brawl with your ultimate anyway.
Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit why did they disable the A41 mode? LW on Nasus is pretty nuts, damage wise. Triforce is nearly twice as expensive and Nasus doesn't make good use of most of the stats.
Triforce provides great utility and tons of extra damage. At level 18, spellblade will give an extra 292 damage per Q just from your base attack damage and the damage from triforce. Even if you removed attack speed and crit chance from the item, it'd still be cost efficient without its two passives.
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On December 02 2013 18:28 sob3k wrote:
Why does nobody get Last Whisper on Nasus? I mean yeah you can just go tri and full tank, but if you were gonna get a damage item it seems like it would be best....fat physical base damage seems to scream LW.
I don't think it's too uncommon as a 5th/6th item.
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On December 02 2013 22:06 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:18 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 02 2013 19:58 Shikyo wrote:
Turns out that Anivia mid + Zac top + Aatrox jungle + GA ADC is an annoying teamcomp to play against.
Also I don't think that Nasus can really afford to get Last Whisper. If he doesn't build super tanky he just dies instantly.
If you need to choose between Triforce and Last Whisper, the correct choice is always Triforce. It gives you movespeed which is amazing on Nasus, gives you higher damage against squshies, move survivability and so on. The only thing Last Whisper gives you is more damage against tanks but you have an enormous advantage over them in a brawl with your ultimate anyway.
Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit why did they disable the A41 mode? LW on Nasus is pretty nuts, damage wise. Triforce is nearly twice as expensive and Nasus doesn't make good use of most of the stats. Triforce provides great utility and tons of extra damage. At level 18, spellblade will give an extra 292 damage per Q just from your base attack damage and the damage from triforce. Even if you removed attack speed and crit chance from the item, it'd still be cost efficient without its two passives.
116.5 AD on nasus from levels at level 18 (53.3+3.5*18)
30 AD on triforce
Triforce doubles 116.5
233+30=263
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well that 29 damage is a gamechanger
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No, Triforce adds double your base AD to your auto-attack. So it's 116.5x3 + 30, which is around 380. then you add Q base damage, and stacks. nvm; I misread the part your were quoting.
Nasus can't exactly apply BC fast if people try to kite him rather than manfight him, so he'll often have auto-Q, run, auto-Q, run, etc. and won't apply BC stacks fast. I'd rather get the 35% ArPen from LW instead of 5% armour shred on my first Q with BC.
Rule of thumb: if you're a major damage threat on your team and your damage is frontloaded (even more so the less instances are dealt as opposed to many weaker ones), LW > BC. If your damage is frontloaded in general LW > BC but there can be exceptions (Pantheon in the late game or if behind early is an example, but by that time he should already have LW anyway).
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On December 02 2013 21:52 nafta wrote:
Nasus is easily the most broken as fuck top laner atm it really doesnt matter what you build on him as long as it has hp or resists.Dont even need damage.
It sort of feels like it. Even with the lifesteal nerf he can still easily shrug off harrass and if you allin on him, his ultimate lets him turn it around or at the very least heal himself up to full. In addition, his harrass is incredible if he spends the mana on all of his skills. Need to shut him down early and even if you do, he has a monsterous lategame.
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On December 02 2013 22:20 Alaric wrote:
No, Triforce adds double your base AD to your auto-attack. So it's 116.5x3 + 30, which is around 380. then you add Q base damage, and stacks. nvm; I misread the part your were quoting.
Nasus can't exactly apply BC fast if people try to kite him rather than manfight him, so he'll often have auto-Q, run, auto-Q, run, etc. and won't apply BC stacks fast. I'd rather get the 35% ArPen from LW instead of 5% armour shred on my first Q with BC.
Rule of thumb: if you're a major damage threat on your team and your damage is frontloaded (even more so the less instances are dealt as opposed to many weaker ones), LW > BC. If your damage is frontloaded in general LW > BC but there can be exceptions (Pantheon in the late game or if behind early is an example, but by that time he should already have LW anyway).
but if you want a playstyle where you are diving their carries, instead of protecting yours, why are you playing nasus to start with? whats your plan, walk at them and look all scary? against a competant defensive support you will never ever reach them.
so your left playing the defensive role, brawling it out with their front line where nasus's buckets of free damage is pretty useful, and in that situation you arent getting kited, you are beating on their slowed bruisers. and even if you are only getting 1-2 hits on them, id still value 10% less armor for your adc to hit through over some minor dps increase for myself.
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"you will never ever reach a carry against a competent defensive support"
wat
maybe some supports can with some ADCs, like for example alistar+tristana or something. But nami+caitlyn? forget about it.
in any case, at some point the adc has to go in and do damage and once that happens he's in range of a teammembers, then you can jump him and kill.
Obviously a champion seems weak if you are assuming it's a 3v1 or 2v1 situation.
You shouldn't be slowing their bruisers normally, for the reason that your W is a main adc threat and letting a bruiser have an easier time doing damage is a lot better than letting an adc do free damage. This is a big reason why I like IBG over LW and trnity. (Trinity might be better in a solo diving sense, LW in a killing tank sense, BC is trash you'll never keep stacks up). You can IBG slow their front guys and save W so you dive their ADC as soon as he commits.
If you want to buy BC and burst down tanks who dive too hard you should try Garen. In terms of stopping assassins especially garens more suited for it with silence and better mobility and even against bruisers with a lot of armour your BC shreds it and your R does tons of missing hp based magic damage which lets you snipe them before they can get in and try to consolidate a trade of garens hp for their hp. (also garen W makes him a lot tankier vs any kind of burst damage)
The reason you might find your playstyle successful is that diving too greedily will often get you killed, and playing defensively is usually safe and nasus is so strong that you don't really have to paly too optimally to win fights if the teams are otherwise even. It's also pretty easy to just focus whoever is in range and if their backline jumps in you can switch then. However the "right" way to play is a mix between killing their front and switching to their back. It is extremely situational though. But you will win a lot more fights that you would lose in bad situations. For example if an assassin kills your adc early on. You don't really have time to instant kill the zed or whatever that jumped in and so you can't really do anything, so if you were focusing bruisers then you might just get collapsed on and cleaned up. Similarly, if they've got some reall tanky shyvana or malphite or whatever, they can jump in and do a lot of burst damage, and then trade their live for yours. As shyvana at least you got some burst done but nasus has virtually no burst so if you die (you can die especially if their AP carry is high damage and their ADC has QSS) in a 1 for 1 trade the fight is probably going to be in favour of them, so you need to try to coordinate an attack on them or else stay really far back and hope this shyvana or whatever was too deep that they can't follow up well.
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see this is why i would buy frozen gauntlett on nasus over triforce ;D no matter your q stacks or whatever, defending your carries is a dps increase for your team, triforce doesnt help you defend and peel for them. and although im aware its not the only way to play them by defensive support i mean someone who has spammable peel, new taric, leona, thresh whatever.
the way i play the game, which im aware may not be optimal but its served me well so far ;p is that defending your adc is always the primary objective in a team fight, so your item build should reflect that. thats why i build frozen over triforce and why i pick cc heavy supports over whatever else.
On December 02 2013 22:21 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 21:52 nafta wrote:
Nasus is easily the most broken as fuck top laner atm it really doesnt matter what you build on him as long as it has hp or resists.Dont even need damage. It sort of feels like it. Even with the lifesteal nerf he can still easily shrug off harrass and if you allin on him, his ultimate lets him turn it around or at the very least heal himself up to full. In addition, his harrass is incredible if he spends the mana on all of his skills. Need to shut him down early and even if you do, he has a monsterous lategame.
the lifesteal nerf just puts it back to where it was like 12 months ago when nasus was a niche top. but they still basically halved his mana costs, and gave him double Q stacks from killing large monsters. i hadnt played nasus for months but playing him recently completely changed my view of him. playing nasus 12 months ago you would lose to most tops by attrition, not because of lacking life steal, but because you would go oom trading with them, then they kill you. but nasus now doesnt go oom any faster than anyone else, it completely changes the feel of top lane match ups with him.
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Some fast calculations for 30 minutes Nasus, lvl18 and 500 stacks.
Base damage : 116.3
Triforce Q damage : 116.3 + 30 + 116.3*2 + 500
Against a 200 armor target : 292.96
Against a 100 armor target : 439.45
LW Q damage : 116.3 + 40 + 500
Against a 200 armor target (130 with last whisper) : 285.3
Against a 100 armor target (65 with last whisper) : 397.75
Last whisper is slightly less damaging but costs nearly half the price, and has the upside of benifiting your autos a lot, since your ult gives you quite a lot of AD. Both Trinity force proc and LW autos proc lifesteal, so on this side it doesn't change anything.
LW on Nasus is actually pretty good and easy to build, and shouldn't be overlooked.
Gauntlet is also really good, but it's hard to value mana and the slow.
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what if we assume that the target is in spirit fire?
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1: Trinity is only about half built for the sheen proc, the rest you want the utility (including movement speed, phage proc movement speed, extra hp and mana)
2: Q can crit, and so can autos, and also the extra attack speed all go towards improving your autos probably about as much as LW
3: We already established that trinity is prolly bad hue
I like alacrity or maybe Fuhrer boot enchant if I want some extra speed. (also ghost op)
IBG is 125% of a sheen so ~1500 gold there
70 armour so that's worth ~1200 gold but added weight because armours a real nice stat
10% cdr ~400 gold worth.
So it's approximately cost effective without the passive which is one of the main reasons you buy it.
Trinity is double sheen so 2400 gold, with ~600 gold worth of hp, so the extra speed and auto damage needs to account for only about ~700 gold, but it lacks the super optimized nasus stats of armour cdr sheen and slow that are combined in IBG, but you can see why it's at least an appealing choice.
LW is 2300 gold so you're comparing it to the double sheen proc. Note that 500 stacks is doing well and probably lategame at which point you'd expect LW to be quite a bit stronger, when it isn't reall that much better. At 300-400 stacks and lower armour levels (especially your first spirit fired hit on a squishy) trinity might be even better. That's why you only get LW as a lategame item. (IBG+LW damage, Randuin/SV/GA tank might be a typical build. or IBG+LW+Randuin/FH/Wamog, or LW+Randuin/FH/GA/SV).
On December 02 2013 23:57 Dusty wrote:
what if we assume that the target is in spirit fire?
Nobody is ever in spirit fire for like more than 1 Q anyway.
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EPT
