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On December 02 2013 03:51 iCanada wrote:
Man, why do people still pick Janna.
-.-
I see no reason to not just spam games as like Ori bot instead.
Janna's passive saw the biggest nerf. Global movement speed can yield an extra auto for your allies or one less auto, one more burnt flash on an enemy. Now she just grants movement speed to herself and her ADC during laning.
Ori's passive is just some small damage and autoing in bot lane is often dangerous. I see Sona's try to get cheeky autoattacks all the time and they get punished for it.
Janna's Q is just a knockup similar to a point and click stun except it only lasts 1 second and is not affected by tenacity. Longer cooldown late game but it is AoE.
Orianna's Q is just damage on a 3 second cd. Which doesn't matter if you're going support Ori. Maybe it'll matter for the earlymid game fights.
Their W's, slows both suck. Both scale with levels and start off worse than mallet's slow. Ori's is AoE and gives movement speed when you get near though I don't think this matters in most situations.
Their shields are about equal strength early on. Janna's gets broken so easily the AD is usually never used.
Orianna's shield is weaker but if you Q behind an enemy, and then shield someone, then the shield does damage and shields an ally. I'm not good enough at Ori to say if this is likely.
Janna's ulti is a good disengage but sometimes it messes your team up by saving an enemy who was going to die. It's rarely a good initiation tool.
Ori's is a wombo combo tool. I can't say which is better.
Janna's not bad. Definitely not worse than Ori at supporting. Their base stats are similar but favor Ori because Ori has more health and range. Janna just took a few big hits to her W, charged Q, and most of all, imo her passive.
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Got 102, but completely forgot about Teemo, so... not exactly a win?
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like 55 or something
deal with it
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On December 02 2013 04:48 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 03:51 iCanada wrote:
Man, why do people still pick Janna.
-.-
I see no reason to not just spam games as like Ori bot instead. Janna's passive saw the biggest nerf. Global movement speed can yield an extra auto for your allies or one less auto, one more burnt flash on an enemy. Now she just grants movement speed to herself and her ADC during laning. Ori's passive is just some small damage and autoing in bot lane is often dangerous. I see Sona's try to get cheeky autoattacks all the time and they get punished for it. Janna's Q is just a knockup similar to a point and click stun except it only lasts 1 second and is not affected by tenacity. Longer cooldown late game but it is AoE. Orianna's Q is just damage on a 3 second cd. Which doesn't matter if you're going support Ori. Maybe it'll matter for the earlymid game fights. Their W's, slows both suck. Both scale with levels and start off worse than mallet's slow. Ori's is AoE and gives movement speed when you get near though I don't think this matters in most situations. Their shields are about equal strength early on. Janna's gets broken so easily the AD is usually never used. Orianna's shield is weaker but if you Q behind an enemy, and then shield someone, then the shield does damage and shields an ally. I'm not good enough at Ori to say if this is likely. Janna's ulti is a good disengage but sometimes it messes your team up by saving an enemy who was going to die. It's rarely a good initiation tool. Ori's is a wombo combo tool. I can't say which is better. Janna's not bad. Definitely not worse than Ori at supporting. Their base stats are similar but favor Ori because Ori has more health and range. Janna just took a few big hits to her W, charged Q, and most of all, imo her passive.
That and Ori is just better with the gold.
I dunno, I guess more importantly I'm just rather frustrated with all the absolutely awful players flocking to support to get carried to having a ton of gold without doing anything. And then they stand their in lane and don't contribute to trades or anything and flame their ADC for not winning 1v2.
Perhaps its just coincidence, but my last five games in a row one of the teams AD carries has just AFK'd because of this practice. Some douche tool support sitting at the tower thinking he is good because he has an amulet coin while the AD has the apposing support and AD standing in their creeps getting dumpsetered.
And then the support thinks he is all good because at the 20 minute mark he has more items than his AD carry.
That stuff never happened at gold before this support overhaul.
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On December 02 2013 02:14 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 02:11 Shikyo wrote:On December 02 2013 02:07 turdburgler wrote:On December 02 2013 02:02 Gahlo wrote:On December 02 2013 00:44 turdburgler wrote:On December 02 2013 00:23 Gahlo wrote:On December 02 2013 00:12 turdburgler wrote:
and 1500 hp on supports is like minute 8-10 these days. By 8-10 minutes, your runes don't matter all that much. wtf game are you playing ;D i think you are all crazy, 10 armor is always 10% dmg reduction no matter what stage of the game you are at. runes provide like 1000g of stats and that never changes. 10 armor is always 10% EHP increase vs physical, not 10% damage reduction. well i thought that went without saying but yes. That makes no sense. How much ehp increase is 100 armor always, then? i cant remember off the top of my head. it makes perfect sense. if you gain 10 armor a 100 dmg hit becomes 90 dmg. if you already have 50% reduction (whatever amount of armor that is) and so you would normally take 50 damage from that same 100 base damage hit, 10 more armor takes that hit to 45. so that 10 armor is still making you take 10% less damage, the hit went from 50 to 45, 10% less of 50 is 45. i thought this was common knowledge. Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 02:11 Shikyo wrote:On December 02 2013 02:07 turdburgler wrote:On December 02 2013 02:02 Gahlo wrote:On December 02 2013 00:44 turdburgler wrote:On December 02 2013 00:23 Gahlo wrote:On December 02 2013 00:12 turdburgler wrote:
and 1500 hp on supports is like minute 8-10 these days. By 8-10 minutes, your runes don't matter all that much. wtf game are you playing ;D i think you are all crazy, 10 armor is always 10% dmg reduction no matter what stage of the game you are at. runes provide like 1000g of stats and that never changes. 10 armor is always 10% EHP increase vs physical, not 10% damage reduction. well i thought that went without saying but yes. That makes no sense. How much ehp increase is 100 armor always, then? If you have 500 armor and it becomes 510, your physical damage reduction goes from 83.33333~% to 83.606557377~% which is a 3.28% increase. well the formula normally used is that 1 armor is 1% reduction, i used 10 because i was just giving a quick example, 10 armor being 10% reduction is an approximation. so yes you can find examples where the numbers dont line up perfectly. that doesnt change what im saying though. 'armor doesnt have diminishing returns' is a fact of the game, which means that the value of armor runes doesnt change as you gain more armor in the game from items. which gets back to the original point that 'runes lose value during the game' isnt true with some runes. since armor doesnt have diminishing returns, armor runes dont get worse.
The original point is correct, but your math is wrong. 1% reduction is not the same as 1% increased EHP.
In your example, you say that 10 armor makes you take 90 damage instead of 100 damage. But you actually take 91 damage. 10 armor means that if you have 100 health, someone needs to shoot you with a 110 damage attack to kill you. Percents are not communative - a 10% reduction and a 10% increase are different. It's more obvious if you look at a bigger number.
25 armor means you take 20% less damage, because you have 25% more EHP.
But you're right, there are zero diminishing returns in armor. There are also not increasing gains in armor ALONE - you have to mix armor and HP (and other damage reductions, like ASPD decreasers) to get multiplicative scaling - because armor multiplies your Max HP.
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got to 90 then drew a blank for like 5 min before finishing with 92.
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93, spent 10 minutes trying to spell evelynn
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On December 02 2013 05:16 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 04:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 02 2013 03:51 iCanada wrote:
Man, why do people still pick Janna.
-.-
I see no reason to not just spam games as like Ori bot instead. Janna's passive saw the biggest nerf. Global movement speed can yield an extra auto for your allies or one less auto, one more burnt flash on an enemy. Now she just grants movement speed to herself and her ADC during laning. Ori's passive is just some small damage and autoing in bot lane is often dangerous. I see Sona's try to get cheeky autoattacks all the time and they get punished for it. Janna's Q is just a knockup similar to a point and click stun except it only lasts 1 second and is not affected by tenacity. Longer cooldown late game but it is AoE. Orianna's Q is just damage on a 3 second cd. Which doesn't matter if you're going support Ori. Maybe it'll matter for the earlymid game fights. Their W's, slows both suck. Both scale with levels and start off worse than mallet's slow. Ori's is AoE and gives movement speed when you get near though I don't think this matters in most situations. Their shields are about equal strength early on. Janna's gets broken so easily the AD is usually never used. Orianna's shield is weaker but if you Q behind an enemy, and then shield someone, then the shield does damage and shields an ally. I'm not good enough at Ori to say if this is likely. Janna's ulti is a good disengage but sometimes it messes your team up by saving an enemy who was going to die. It's rarely a good initiation tool. Ori's is a wombo combo tool. I can't say which is better. Janna's not bad. Definitely not worse than Ori at supporting. Their base stats are similar but favor Ori because Ori has more health and range. Janna just took a few big hits to her W, charged Q, and most of all, imo her passive. That and Ori is just better with the gold. I dunno, I guess more importantly I'm just rather frustrated with all the absolutely awful players flocking to support to get carried to having a ton of gold without doing anything. And then they stand their in lane and don't contribute to trades or anything and flame their ADC for not winning 1v2. Perhaps its just coincidence, but my last five games in a row one of the teams AD carries has just AFK'd because of this practice. Some douche tool support sitting at the tower thinking he is good because he has an amulet coin while the AD has the apposing support and AD standing in their creeps getting dumpsetered. And then the support thinks he is all good because at the 20 minute mark he has more items than his AD carry. That stuff never happened at gold before this support overhaul.
but on the flipside supports are still getting flamed for not warding the entire map so it goes both ways i guess ;D
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the 3 ward limit is highly frustrating because solo laners can't even be bothered to use their trinket, let alone upgrade it OH GOD NO
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On December 02 2013 05:00 BrownBear wrote:
Got 102, but completely forgot about Teemo, so... not exactly a win?
Got them all with like...9 seconds left. TIL that I apparently list champions based on lore. Which is why champions not connected to anything like fucking Shaco or Nidalee took me so long to figure out lol. <_<
LoL lore pls, I want JoJ back
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On December 02 2013 05:16 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 04:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 02 2013 03:51 iCanada wrote:
Man, why do people still pick Janna.
-.-
I see no reason to not just spam games as like Ori bot instead. Janna's passive saw the biggest nerf. Global movement speed can yield an extra auto for your allies or one less auto, one more burnt flash on an enemy. Now she just grants movement speed to herself and her ADC during laning. Ori's passive is just some small damage and autoing in bot lane is often dangerous. I see Sona's try to get cheeky autoattacks all the time and they get punished for it. Janna's Q is just a knockup similar to a point and click stun except it only lasts 1 second and is not affected by tenacity. Longer cooldown late game but it is AoE. Orianna's Q is just damage on a 3 second cd. Which doesn't matter if you're going support Ori. Maybe it'll matter for the earlymid game fights. Their W's, slows both suck. Both scale with levels and start off worse than mallet's slow. Ori's is AoE and gives movement speed when you get near though I don't think this matters in most situations. Their shields are about equal strength early on. Janna's gets broken so easily the AD is usually never used. Orianna's shield is weaker but if you Q behind an enemy, and then shield someone, then the shield does damage and shields an ally. I'm not good enough at Ori to say if this is likely. Janna's ulti is a good disengage but sometimes it messes your team up by saving an enemy who was going to die. It's rarely a good initiation tool. Ori's is a wombo combo tool. I can't say which is better. Janna's not bad. Definitely not worse than Ori at supporting. Their base stats are similar but favor Ori because Ori has more health and range. Janna just took a few big hits to her W, charged Q, and most of all, imo her passive. That and Ori is just better with the gold. I dunno, I guess more importantly I'm just rather frustrated with all the absolutely awful players flocking to support to get carried to having a ton of gold without doing anything. And then they stand their in lane and don't contribute to trades or anything and flame their ADC for not winning 1v2. Perhaps its just coincidence, but my last five games in a row one of the teams AD carries has just AFK'd because of this practice. Some douche tool support sitting at the tower thinking he is good because he has an amulet coin while the AD has the apposing support and AD standing in their creeps getting dumpsetered. And then the support thinks he is all good because at the 20 minute mark he has more items than his AD carry. That stuff never happened at gold before this support overhaul.
Enjoy your birthday. If the game is frustrating you, just mute or do something else.
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On December 02 2013 04:48 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 03:51 iCanada wrote:
Man, why do people still pick Janna.
-.-
I see no reason to not just spam games as like Ori bot instead. Janna's passive saw the biggest nerf. Global movement speed can yield an extra auto for your allies or one less auto, one more burnt flash on an enemy. Now she just grants movement speed to herself and her ADC during laning. Ori's passive is just some small damage and autoing in bot lane is often dangerous. I see Sona's try to get cheeky autoattacks all the time and they get punished for it. Janna's Q is just a knockup similar to a point and click stun except it only lasts 1 second and is not affected by tenacity. Longer cooldown late game but it is AoE. Orianna's Q is just damage on a 3 second cd. Which doesn't matter if you're going support Ori. Maybe it'll matter for the earlymid game fights. Their W's, slows both suck. Both scale with levels and start off worse than mallet's slow. Ori's is AoE and gives movement speed when you get near though I don't think this matters in most situations. Their shields are about equal strength early on. Janna's gets broken so easily the AD is usually never used. Orianna's shield is weaker but if you Q behind an enemy, and then shield someone, then the shield does damage and shields an ally. I'm not good enough at Ori to say if this is likely. Janna's ulti is a good disengage but sometimes it messes your team up by saving an enemy who was going to die. It's rarely a good initiation tool. Ori's is a wombo combo tool. I can't say which is better. Janna's not bad. Definitely not worse than Ori at supporting. Their base stats are similar but favor Ori because Ori has more health and range. Janna just took a few big hits to her W, charged Q, and most of all, imo her passive.
Ori ball is great at bush control and zoning though, and since her AA's are so much better than Sona's (excluding powercord), and she is better during an all in, she kinda wants you to try something cheeky.
That said, Janna's problem is not Orianna's laning, its that her lategame is nowhere near Orianna's and now that supports are able to get itemization (which the old Janna would have excelled at), her nerfed state is fairly weak (long Cds, less damage, etc). You wouldn't dominate botlane with either as support, but one could really give you something to do with the gold. The other is half of what Janna is supposed to be.
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On December 02 2013 05:37 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 05:16 iCanada wrote:On December 02 2013 04:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 02 2013 03:51 iCanada wrote:
Man, why do people still pick Janna.
-.-
I see no reason to not just spam games as like Ori bot instead. Janna's passive saw the biggest nerf. Global movement speed can yield an extra auto for your allies or one less auto, one more burnt flash on an enemy. Now she just grants movement speed to herself and her ADC during laning. Ori's passive is just some small damage and autoing in bot lane is often dangerous. I see Sona's try to get cheeky autoattacks all the time and they get punished for it. Janna's Q is just a knockup similar to a point and click stun except it only lasts 1 second and is not affected by tenacity. Longer cooldown late game but it is AoE. Orianna's Q is just damage on a 3 second cd. Which doesn't matter if you're going support Ori. Maybe it'll matter for the earlymid game fights. Their W's, slows both suck. Both scale with levels and start off worse than mallet's slow. Ori's is AoE and gives movement speed when you get near though I don't think this matters in most situations. Their shields are about equal strength early on. Janna's gets broken so easily the AD is usually never used. Orianna's shield is weaker but if you Q behind an enemy, and then shield someone, then the shield does damage and shields an ally. I'm not good enough at Ori to say if this is likely. Janna's ulti is a good disengage but sometimes it messes your team up by saving an enemy who was going to die. It's rarely a good initiation tool. Ori's is a wombo combo tool. I can't say which is better. Janna's not bad. Definitely not worse than Ori at supporting. Their base stats are similar but favor Ori because Ori has more health and range. Janna just took a few big hits to her W, charged Q, and most of all, imo her passive. That and Ori is just better with the gold. I dunno, I guess more importantly I'm just rather frustrated with all the absolutely awful players flocking to support to get carried to having a ton of gold without doing anything. And then they stand their in lane and don't contribute to trades or anything and flame their ADC for not winning 1v2. Perhaps its just coincidence, but my last five games in a row one of the teams AD carries has just AFK'd because of this practice. Some douche tool support sitting at the tower thinking he is good because he has an amulet coin while the AD has the apposing support and AD standing in their creeps getting dumpsetered. And then the support thinks he is all good because at the 20 minute mark he has more items than his AD carry. That stuff never happened at gold before this support overhaul. Enjoy your birthday. If the game is frustrating you, just mute or do something else.
Good advice I suppose. Although my BDay is tomorrow. Korea time too stronk.
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On December 02 2013 05:35 Slusher wrote:
the 3 ward limit is highly frustrating because solo laners can't even be bothered to use their trinket, let alone upgrade it OH GOD NO
Upgrading it is extremely cost-inefficient. When would that ever be worth it?
I've noticed that there's more wards than before. Trinkets make it so that whenever I'm walking past some interesting-seeming place I'll just drop down a ward, as do many of my teammates. I really don't get such a low ward limit especially combined with the increased gold, though. Why do they want supports to suddenly swim in gold?
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On December 02 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 05:35 Slusher wrote:
the 3 ward limit is highly frustrating because solo laners can't even be bothered to use their trinket, let alone upgrade it OH GOD NO Upgrading it is extremely cost-inefficient. When would that ever be worth it?
When you max item really.
Might as well just buy a green ward.
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I guess I mean to say, not being able to cover for people who refuse to even use their trinket is very frustrating.
especially lategame when the upgrade is nbd
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On December 02 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 05:35 Slusher wrote:
the 3 ward limit is highly frustrating because solo laners can't even be bothered to use their trinket, let alone upgrade it OH GOD NO Upgrading it is extremely cost-inefficient. When would that ever be worth it? I've noticed that there's more wards than before. Trinkets make it so that whenever I'm walking past some interesting-seeming place I'll just drop down a ward, as do many of my teammates. I really don't get such a low ward limit especially combined with the increased gold, though. Why do they want supports to suddenly swim in gold?
The hordes COD mentality.
more kills > objective control | vision control | winning the game
so long as my K/D is over 3 im 1337x360noscope420blazeit
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On December 02 2013 05:42 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 04:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 02 2013 03:51 iCanada wrote:
Man, why do people still pick Janna.
-.-
I see no reason to not just spam games as like Ori bot instead. Janna's passive saw the biggest nerf. Global movement speed can yield an extra auto for your allies or one less auto, one more burnt flash on an enemy. Now she just grants movement speed to herself and her ADC during laning. Ori's passive is just some small damage and autoing in bot lane is often dangerous. I see Sona's try to get cheeky autoattacks all the time and they get punished for it. Janna's Q is just a knockup similar to a point and click stun except it only lasts 1 second and is not affected by tenacity. Longer cooldown late game but it is AoE. Orianna's Q is just damage on a 3 second cd. Which doesn't matter if you're going support Ori. Maybe it'll matter for the earlymid game fights. Their W's, slows both suck. Both scale with levels and start off worse than mallet's slow. Ori's is AoE and gives movement speed when you get near though I don't think this matters in most situations. Their shields are about equal strength early on. Janna's gets broken so easily the AD is usually never used. Orianna's shield is weaker but if you Q behind an enemy, and then shield someone, then the shield does damage and shields an ally. I'm not good enough at Ori to say if this is likely. Janna's ulti is a good disengage but sometimes it messes your team up by saving an enemy who was going to die. It's rarely a good initiation tool. Ori's is a wombo combo tool. I can't say which is better. Janna's not bad. Definitely not worse than Ori at supporting. Their base stats are similar but favor Ori because Ori has more health and range. Janna just took a few big hits to her W, charged Q, and most of all, imo her passive. Ori ball is great at bush control and zoning though, and since her AA's are so much better than Sona's (excluding powercord), and she is better during an all in, she kinda wants you to try something cheeky. That said, Janna's problem is not Orianna's laning, its that her lategame is nowhere near Orianna's and now that supports are able to get itemization (which the old Janna would have excelled at), her nerfed state is fairly weak (long Cds, less damage, etc). You wouldn't dominate botlane with either as support, but one could really give you something to do with the gold. The other is half of what Janna is supposed to be.
There's a reason Morello said that Janna will be getting buffs.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On December 02 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 05:35 Slusher wrote:
the 3 ward limit is highly frustrating because solo laners can't even be bothered to use their trinket, let alone upgrade it OH GOD NO Upgrading it is extremely cost-inefficient. When would that ever be worth it? I've noticed that there's more wards than before. Trinkets make it so that whenever I'm walking past some interesting-seeming place I'll just drop down a ward, as do many of my teammates. I really don't get such a low ward limit especially combined with the increased gold, though. Why do they want supports to suddenly swim in gold?
Because people were whining about how supports are so poor and how ADCs never check their privileges and rito thinks that being poor is anti-fun. I personally had more fun with S3 support, winning vision wars was so satisfying but different strokes for different blokes I suppose.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 02 2013 05:47 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2013 05:46 Shikyo wrote:On December 02 2013 05:35 Slusher wrote:
the 3 ward limit is highly frustrating because solo laners can't even be bothered to use their trinket, let alone upgrade it OH GOD NO Upgrading it is extremely cost-inefficient. When would that ever be worth it? When you max item really. Might as well just buy a green ward.
Happy KR Birthday sir
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EPT
