On October 24 2013 03:49 Malphite wrote: Not snowbally?? 100 percent win percentage of first inhib... like 96 % for baron...
Those are incredibly loaded statistics because nobody risks Baron or high ground unless they're already ahead enough to have a very low chance of losing to begin with.
High ground push throws and Baron throws are signs of teams playing poorly, not a game that allows for comebacks.
Competitive league is just a terrible place to try and apply statistics to because variable isolation is like 0, covariances are all a million, and sample sizes are insufficient.
But herp derp the new generation culture is like "if there is numbers it must be true!!!!!!!!"
But Yango is pointing something out that I complain about when I watch competitive league:
Aside from "throws" the winning team basically wins, because its really easy to suffocate the other team with even a minor lead. You don't have to take risks in LOL to maintain a lead, in fact you have to take risks to make a comeback. Its almost like playing the "prevent" defense with a 3-0 leading in Football, but it actually works.
On October 24 2013 04:05 Kinie wrote: So, from what I can read/tell from this initial posting about what they plan to do with s4, here's what I'm able to gleam from the information:
- Adding a new item slot for ward-type items only - More types of wards - Max limit on # of wards a player can carry - Changes to jungle to make carry-style junglers (aka Meteos style) easier/better - Introducing a 4th enemy camp in the jungle to make it easier for junglers to plan a route - Buffing supports with their gold income and increase utlility (not dmg.) in fights - Changes to first blood and kill distribution of gold to make snowballing harder on a champ/team - Changes to Runes and Masteries - Changes to brush mechanics and brush layout (as noted by YouGotNothin) - Introduction of something called the Trinket system (as noted by onlywonderboy)
Did I miss anything specific?
Yes, the riot post that says everything you just said, except with ambiguity instead of misinterpretation.
On October 24 2013 04:31 obesechicken13 wrote: I think League is snowbally because the items give you stats. In DotA the items give you things that don't translate into direct stats like blink daggers and shit. Meks. Bottles. I don't think DotA is as snowbally but correct me if I'm wrong.
Dota has more opportunities for "big plays".
And it's big plays which get you back into the game more often than taking incremental advantages back from a team which holds all the cards already.
On October 24 2013 03:53 Slusher wrote: more than anything the biggest letdown for me will be no change of the draft format, which was not mentioned in the preview so I doubt it's happening.
Its been firmly stated that they won't be changing the draft format until morello is gone from riot.
If you say something like this you should be required to specifically cite
On October 24 2013 04:26 JimmiC wrote: It's intersting to read peoples opinion. It sort of shows optimists vs pesimists. Because they really havn't given much information. But some people (more then not) are allready convinced they are bad.
Well a lot of us has seen riots balance and season changes multiple times. Its not so much pessimiam as it is history repeating itself.
dota was pretty snowbally earlier in the year. not because of the items but because of levels and tower gold. if your supports are underleveled early because of a bad laning phase, then it's very hard to come back against the other team's group-up-and-tower midgame, supported by them getting the teamfight oriented items like mek and drum up first
On October 24 2013 03:49 Malphite wrote: Not snowbally?? 100 percent win percentage of first inhib... like 96 % for baron...
Those are incredibly loaded statistics because nobody risks Baron or high ground unless they're already ahead enough to have a very low chance of losing to begin with.
High ground push throws and Baron throws are signs of teams playing poorly, not a game that allows for comebacks.
Competitive league is just a terrible place to try and apply statistics to because variable isolation is like 0, covariances are all a million, and sample sizes are insufficient.
But herp derp the new generation culture is like "if there is numbers it must be true!!!!!!!!"
But Yango is pointing something out that I complain about when I watch competitive league:
Aside from "throws" the winning team basically wins, because its really easy to suffocate the other team with even a minor lead. You don't have to take risks in LOL to maintain a lead, in fact you have to take risks to make a comeback. Its almost like playing the "prevent" defense with a 3-0 leading in Football, but it actually works.
I agree to some extent, but the problem is the root cause of this is extremely hard to point out, and people are going about it in the wrong way.
Imagine if Baron was just impossible to take down unless you had two 6 item hypercarries and 20s of unmolested time to sit and DPS it. Then you could say that the first team to Baron probably has a 100% chance to win the game. So Baron buff is clearly OP and Baron is too easy to take and snowballs victories so we should make Baron more difficult and riskier right?
This is basically the logic behind the last time Riot changed Baron big time (not the current MR change), and as a result the correlation between 1st Baron and winning the game actually went up.
On October 24 2013 04:33 UniversalSnip wrote: Yes, the riot post that says everything you just said, except with ambiguity instead of misinterpretation.
On October 24 2013 04:33 UniversalSnip wrote: Yes, the riot post that says everything you just said, except with ambiguity instead of misinterpretation.
On October 24 2013 04:55 obesechicken13 wrote: Game is pretty snowbally though. I've had games where I've lost due to someone (often me) giving doublebuffs early on T_T
Every game is "snowbally" if you make an egregious enough error.
It's just a matter of peoples' perception of how big an error should be reversible.
And this is interesting, according to Snoopeh's twitter: "With the jungle changes [in preseason] you can now actually keep up with AP/AD/Top and invest in bigger items as opposed to only "jungler items""
Apparently the point behind giving supports more gold is so that they can add stat <-> utility scaling.
Ex. Janna shield AD bonus scales off of AP.
Possibly stuff like soraka W armor off AP, etc.
Not sold on this approach, because that basically means that you will never see a champion designed as a support EVER do something other than support. If the janna shield AD bonus also increased with AP, you'd see a corresponding nerf to her AP scaling elsewhere, and that hurts a laner far more than it hurts a support.
I would be ecstatic if the jungle had a comparable level of farm to the lanes to allocate. It will make jungle control more important than the current "take both buffs by 3 min and ignore small camps" iteration of jungle meta.
On October 24 2013 04:55 obesechicken13 wrote: Game is pretty snowbally though. I've had games where I've lost due to someone (often me) giving doublebuffs early on T_T
Every game is "snowbally" if you make an egregious enough error.
It's just a matter of peoples' perception of how big an error should be reversible.
Btw this reminds me of an argument I had with a Dota guy earlier this year. He claimed Dota is more snowbally than league and that makes the game better because it is "less forgiving". Lol.
On October 24 2013 04:55 obesechicken13 wrote: Game is pretty snowbally though. I've had games where I've lost due to someone (often me) giving doublebuffs early on T_T
Every game is "snowbally" if you make an egregious enough error.
It's just a matter of peoples' perception of how big an error should be reversible.
Btw this reminds me of an argument I had with a Dota guy earlier this year. He claimed Dota is more snowbally than league and that makes the game better because it is "less forgiving". Lol.
What is snowball?
Most people have identified it as "the conditional probability that you will win given that you are winning is higher than the unconditional probability of winning"
EPT
