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On October 16 2013 01:15 Slayer91 wrote:
its not wasted time at all
all you did is not achieve a meaningless division promotion which you can get easily if you improve enough to deserve it
don't tell me you play this game only to get that platnium 2 to platnium 1 rank up and everything else is a waste of time
I wouldn't put words in wei's mouth. No one said anything about division ranking being the only worthwhile thing in LoL, only that trolling someone's promotion series because you can is an incredibly jerk move. Winning promotions are as worthwhile a goal as anything else in this game and purposefully getting in the way of someone's reasonable personal goals is pretty much the definition of being a jerk.
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im wondering again if its possible to know for sure people are on promotion series? do people look up every memeber in their team and division/ranking or wat?
intentionally losing any game is being a jerk, the fact that its a promotion series doesn't make it that much worse, certainly slightly worse, but its just people liken it to rolling the stone up the hill and some guy tripping you at the top. I guess the core issue is why people feel like that and mostly its to due with playing games to win without trying to improve specifically.
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On October 16 2013 01:20 Slayer91 wrote:how can you even be sure someone is on promotion series to "grief" them im sure like 95%+ of "griefers" are just someone feeding, people feed all the time at every level of play and people just want an excuse to report them and blame them Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:20 wei2coolman wrote:On October 16 2013 01:15 Slayer91 wrote:
its not wasted time at all
all you did is not achieve a meaningless division promotion which you can get easily if you improve enough to deserve it
don't tell me you play this game only to get that platnium 2 to platnium 1 rank up and everything else is a waste of time It's an added 2 hours to your travel through plat to diamond, or from gold to plat, and what not. If your mmr is high enough you will jump up that much faster if you have to win another 2 games while still in the same division. Division doesn't affect what games you get in, your mmr does. Your mmr also affects how fast you gain points to get a promotion series.
It's obvious when players are griefing, they often say so. It's one thing to get out matched and having a teammate lose terribly, it's another when they say "mid or feed", or they go duo mid, or just afk, and shit like that.
I don't even know why you're even defending griefing, it's fucking silly.
Pretty much losing due to a griefer invalidates the games leading to that last game of your promo, then you need to win another 2, sometimes 3 games to get back into promo, then gotta win the next 2. That's fucking like 5 games minimum, to get back to where you were.
On October 16 2013 01:25 Slayer91 wrote:
im wondering again if its possible to know for sure people are on promotion series? do people look up every memeber in their team and division/ranking or wat?
intentionally losing any game is being a jerk, the fact that its a promotion series doesn't make it that much worse, certainly slightly worse, but its just people liken it to rolling the stone up the hill and some guy tripping you at the top. I guess the core issue is why people feel like that and mostly its to due with playing games to win without trying to improve specifically.
No, winning is proof of your improvement. Winning promo is reward of such, but when there's a fucking dumbass purposely sinking your promo, it's fucking stupid. You could carry as hard as physically possible, but there's no way to win a 4v5.
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im not defending them. I'm saying that doing it on a promo series shouldn't be treated as some mortal sin compared to what it's normally called which is "feeding" or just being an "immature kid" or whatever.
There's always a person who calls mid or feed and go duo mid. It happens a lot and usually it gets them their mid but they usually end up getting banned at some point.
also you can still with the 2 other games of your series.
winning is NOT proof of your improvement. It could be a statisical anomaly. I'd say like 90%+ of players don't improve nearly at all at any given time. Proof of your improvement can only be based on your own analysis of your own play. (which for most people is highly incomplete and they blame everything on their teammates mistakes)
the worst players win 50% of their games at their mmr. every loss is because of a feeder (there's ALWAYS at least 1 feeder int he team, someone has to be the worst) every win because they played well. Winning 2 games to 100 and then getting into promo series feels like rolling a rock up the hill, because of a lot of people you have to dodge the "bullets", like rolling a die 6 3 or higher 4 times in a row.
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On October 16 2013 01:28 Slayer91 wrote:
im not defending them. I'm saying that doing it on a promo series shouldn't be treated as some mortal sin compared to what it's normally called which is "feeding" or just being an "immature kid" or whatever.
There's always a person who calls mid or feed and go duo mid. It happens a lot and usually it gets them their mid but they usually end up getting banned at some point.
also you can still with the 2 other games of your series.
If you get hit by griefer on the last game of your promo, it's a huge fucking waste of time.
What? griefer is griefer, no matter what. It's just significantly more annoying on promo series, because of how much more time is being wasted by a griefer, just off one game. Its the difference between wasting 20-30 min of your time due to one game, and wasting 2-3 hours due to one game.
Please, blaming griefer is not the same as blaming your teammates. If there is one guy who purposely runs into enemies without any resistance, only to give kills away, and you blame your loss on him, that's not just "blaming your teammates".
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If you get hit by a griefer at any time its a huge waste of your time.
What? griefer is griefer, no matter what.
agreed. this has been my argument the entire time. any more significance is purely egotistical though. you should view getting up in ranks the bonus, playing the game you want to play as the main thing. (4v5s are meaningless however, unless you can carry really hard), if you skew those thing around so getting promoted is the most important thing then yes its worse on promo series i suppose.
However the same mentality that makes people only care about playing to get promoted is the same mentality that makes this guy thinking of griefing. Even if he doesn't, a LOT of people will play off roles and off champs for fun and lose a lot of games at the bottom of their divison, for the same reasons that the people at the top of their divison are super tense and tryhard and don't have fun at all.
Two sides of the same coin. The problem is the mentality, it leads to the frustration of your side and the griefers on the other. That's what I'd prefer people address rather than whining and wanting people to get banned.
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On October 16 2013 01:32 Slayer91 wrote:If you get hit by a griefer at any time its a huge waste of your time. agreed. any more significance is purely egotistical though.
No, that's bull shit.
It's the difference between a thief stealing a candy from a liquor store, and Madoff.
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United States23745 Posts
I feel like we've had similar discussions before. Teut has stated on multiple occasions that things that bother a lot of people don't phase him, this isn't an argument worth having.
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On October 16 2013 01:32 onlywonderboy wrote:
I feel like we've had similar discussions before. Teut has stated on multiple occasions that things that bother a lot of people don't phase him, this isn't an argument worth having.
Just cuz a dude can take a punch to the face, doesn't mean everyone else has to or should have to deal with the same shit.
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United States47024 Posts
I'm actually with Teut on this one.
The only reason the promo series is a "waste of time" is if you were just going to stop playing League for the rest of the season once you get your promotion. Otherwise, a game is a game, and there's no difference between getting your promotion now or later.
There's nothing that distinguishes a failed promo series from any other game unless it was going to be your last game of League until the end of the season.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 16 2013 01:34 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:32 onlywonderboy wrote:
I feel like we've had similar discussions before. Teut has stated on multiple occasions that things that bother a lot of people don't phase him, this isn't an argument worth having. Just cuz a dude can take a punch to the face, doesn't mean everyone else has to or should have to deal with the same shit.
You really wanna take the Roffles approach to this shit? There is no need to clog up GD with this argument and you know it.
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On October 16 2013 01:35 TheYango wrote:
I'm actually with Teut on this one.
The only reason the promo series is a "waste of time" is if you were just going to stop playing League for the rest of the season once you get your promotion. Otherwise, a game is a game, and there's no difference between getting your promotion now or later.
Whoa, Yango, don't you know about them end of season rewards?
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On October 16 2013 01:35 TheYango wrote:
I'm actually with Teut on this one.
The only reason the promo series is a "waste of time" is if you were just going to stop playing League for the rest of the season once you get your promotion. Otherwise, a game is a game, and there's no difference between getting your promotion now or later.
and what I just said in my edit, people who don't stop playing league might "troll" their games from then on, not because they are jerks but because they are done with the "stress" of playing ranked and can "have fun" in games even if they lose more.
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On October 16 2013 01:16 BrownBear wrote:
Crocodile Freelo train officially got derailed - I got stomped out of my promotion matches by a toplane Thresh T_T
Turns out it might actually be a great hard counter to Renekton. Thresh is a huge lane bully early especially when he's getting farm, and after dying twice early it reached the point where he would just poke me down and then kill me under turret. He did end up relatively useless later on but it didn't matter because he was still more useful than me.
Did I just get dumpstered by a better player, or is this a new potential counter to renek?
I don't think Thresh is a good top laner, but you do have to respect Flay's ability to cancel your dash and not get hooked into a gank. DShield should negate enough auto harass and your trade combos should crush Thresh's extremely low early-game armor.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On October 16 2013 01:36 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:34 wei2coolman wrote:On October 16 2013 01:32 onlywonderboy wrote:
I feel like we've had similar discussions before. Teut has stated on multiple occasions that things that bother a lot of people don't phase him, this isn't an argument worth having. Just cuz a dude can take a punch to the face, doesn't mean everyone else has to or should have to deal with the same shit. You really wanna take the Roffles approach to this shit? There is no need to clog up GD with this argument and you know it.
lol
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United States47024 Posts
On October 16 2013 01:36 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:35 TheYango wrote:
I'm actually with Teut on this one.
The only reason the promo series is a "waste of time" is if you were just going to stop playing League for the rest of the season once you get your promotion. Otherwise, a game is a game, and there's no difference between getting your promotion now or later. Whoa, Yango, don't you know about them end of season rewards?
You get the same rewards if you get your promotion now vs. a week from now. So getting your promotion now and playing a week longer vs. playing a week longer and getting your promotion then are the same thing.
Again, the only difference is if getting your promotion now means you're going to stop playing League.
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What you don't realize is that there are people who purposefully try to "keep people out of diamond". They tell you so. There is no ambiguity here. I have had people going "I played to lose this so this jax never gets dia" (i wasn't "this jax"). Are you telling me that guy lied? Are you telling me there is any possible way that that is not a dick move?
It takes a lot of games to get a promo at +5/-4. That promo is the reward for a lot of hard work. Sure, you can go all "it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how good you feel you play", but everyone knows that that is bullshit. But a culture where trying to lose your teammates important games on purpose because you already got what you can achieve, and don't see any way to improve your rating further, and also can't lose it anymore, is somehow acceptable is a really horrible game culture, even worse then what LoL usually produces, and i don't see how anyone can defend that.
On October 16 2013 01:38 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:36 wei2coolman wrote:On October 16 2013 01:35 TheYango wrote:
I'm actually with Teut on this one.
The only reason the promo series is a "waste of time" is if you were just going to stop playing League for the rest of the season once you get your promotion. Otherwise, a game is a game, and there's no difference between getting your promotion now or later. Whoa, Yango, don't you know about them end of season rewards? You get the same rewards if you get your promotion now vs. a week from now. So getting your promotion now and playing a week longer vs. playing a week longer and getting your promotion then are the same thing. Again, the only difference is if getting your promotion now means you're going to stop playing League.
And that happens easily. I know that i basically didn't play for the last two weeks after i finished my promotion, because i burned out pretty hard on the game getting to that point, but still wanted to get that end of season reward.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I dont necessarily agree with wei2coolman, but I respect his POV. I don't see why he can't continue to argue his stance. It can certainly get frustrating if you're so close to your goal and some fucking dbag stops you short because he doesn't care.
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On October 16 2013 01:38 Simberto wrote:
What you don't realize is that there are people who purposefully try to "keep people out of diamond". They tell you so. There is no ambiguity here. I have had people going "I played to lose this so this jax never gets dia" (i wasn't "this jax"). Are you telling me that guy lied? Are you telling me there is any possible way that that is not a dick move?
It takes a lot of games to get a promo at +5/-4. That promo is the reward for a lot of hard work. Sure, you can go all "it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is how good you feel you play", but everyone knows that that is bullshit. But a culture where trying to lose your teammates important games on purpose because you already got what you can achieve, and don't see any way to improve your rating further, and also can't lose it anymore, is somehow acceptable is a really horrible game culture, even worse then what LoL usually produces, and i don't see how anyone can defend that.
Pretty much this.
I'm just lucky enough not to run into these assholes in my promo series through solo queue, definitely seen it in other people's adventures though.
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The reason im posting is not to assert that i have some kind of god given gift for controlling my emotions but rather that I know the mentality you guys when you say these things and it has been directly linked with me
a: having less fun than usual
b: playing worse than usual
now mentality is very mallable, I find you can shift gears pretty much instantly once you reorder your motivations, and id prefer if you guys were having fun and thinking more about the game so we can have more interesting discussions instead of the whiny learned helplessness which is everywhere in the league community
People who say "I'm going to lose just so this jax won't get diamond". Isn't some kind of elo police with a dedication. It's just some raging guy who wants to make you mad. Most of the time they don't even play any differently after the first like 2 minutes. I've had them directed at me many a time.
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EPT
