[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 28

On September 06 2013 02:50 OhTwoMise wrote:




Opening less than 3 health pots is incredibly greedy. Odds are you're getting away with it because most support players have some kind of gentleman's agreement to do so. Or you can just buy pots and force people out of lane. Also, running combat-oriented runes is pretty sweet. Lulu and Zyra in particular (and probably Thresh as well, but I don't really play him) can 1v2 most lanes with something like split pen red/quints, 16/13/1 masteries. Unless the other support is running a similar setup, in which case, you'd damn well better have some pots.

On September 06 2013 02:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:


i played ziggs in the first liquidpractice in house we ever played months ago

also my league is broken right now i have the launcher/patcher won't launch bug where the game is stuck on the pvp.net logo when trying to run the rads kernel

gonna wait and see if riot resolves it cause i dont really want to reinstall my game zz

On September 06 2013 03:08 Ryuu314 wrote:

Pretty sure Ziggs doesn't outdamage most of the champions I named as alternatives. Ziggs has less up front reliable burst than Lux, Xerath, and Oriana. The problem is that while is E can potentially do a ton of damage to one target, realistically you're not going to hit more than 1~3 E charges on the same target. E only does 140 (+0.3) damage on the first mine and does 56 (+0.12) on every mine after. That's 252 (+0.54) damage if you hit 3 charges, which is far below the damage curve. Ziggs has pretty good sustained poke damage with the low cd Q, but it's honestly not that hard to dodge, especially after the first bounce. Even then you can just play Nid who has basically double Zigg's poke damage for 2 seconds longer cd. Xerath is also arguably better at seiging since with 40% cdr he can ult basically at every single creep wave from long range for over 1k damage each time.

Ziggs Q costs 90 mana each, which is pretty ridiculous for somethin on such a low cooldown. He's gonna have mana problems without blue even if you don't cast W/E at all, especially if you don't build chalice/tear.

Ziggs' ult has a damage dropoff of 20% when not in the center and the center of the blast is pretty damn tiny. The delay time+the small center aoe means you're not going to hit the center most of the time unless the target is locked down. If you don't hit the center, it does 400 (+0.72), which is sub-par compared to other pure-damage ultis (compare to say Lux ult which does 500 (+0.75) or Karthus ult which does 550 (+0.6)). Of course, if you can consistently hit Ziggs ult in the center then it's easily one of, if not the most damaging nuke in the game, but doing so is pretty hard unless you have a comp with good lockdown. On top of that, if it's global/semi-global presence you want you'er better off picking Karthus for near-guaranteed damage or TF/Panth for the ganks.

It's entirely possible that I've only seen shitty Ziggs, but I honestly just don't see what he has to offer that other champs don't do as well or better. I'll believe it when I see it.

On September 06 2013 03:01 NeoIllusions wrote:

Sounds like a doj to me. I'll ask yanger for a ruling.

And that was months ago, plz play him in something recent and hopefully Monty can record. I'm unsold on Ziggs but you say otherwise.

On September 06 2013 03:13 OhTwoMise wrote:


With that kind of opening, you SHOULD have a successful early game unless your carry is pants-on-head retarded. If your other lanes and jungle all lose, things will get dicey, but you should have enough money to ward regardless. I think people vastly overestimate how much income GP10 quints and masteries give them. Try playing without them; you might be surprised.

On September 06 2013 03:01 NeoIllusions wrote:

Sounds like a doj to me. I'll ask yanger for a ruling.

And that was months ago, plz play him in something recent and hopefully Monty can record. I'm unsold on Ziggs but you say otherwise.

On September 06 2013 03:37 sylverfyre wrote:
Theorycraft blows but dodging the call to bring it to an inhouse. What now?

On September 06 2013 03:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:


in houses are a piss poor proof of anything when you have disparate skill levels involved

i've made the point before but it bears repeating, just cause something works or doesn't work in bronze/silver/gold/plat/diamond/cardboard doesn't mean it's actually viable or unviable in top competitive play,which is the only standard that should matter

anything below that everything is good and it just comes down to individual skill.

if you get a match with 10 people of somewhat similar skill level, it becomes a better approximation, though still nowhere near rigorous as the variables are too wild

also i really dislike in houses where you match something like 2 diamonds/3 golds vs 2 diamonds/3 golds or anything like that, because it just comes down to a 2v2 between the diamonds on who can stomp harder.

On September 06 2013 03:48 NeoIllusions wrote:

Jokes aside, it does have to be so black and white? As long as we put someone at your level in mid lane (e.g. not Atrioc on Fizz), it should be an interesting and somewhat product trial run. I mean you like Ziggs, I assume you play him the most, so what's the problem?

Even in team fights, if you lose a team fight that entirely not your fault, any unbiased observer should be able to see that. If you can carry in team fights, then more power to you.

In the end, playing Ziggs in an IH is far superior than talking about it here. Considering your metric of pro level having a forecast with Ziggs is utterly nil.

On September 06 2013 03:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

I'm almost certain I have proof on my twitch channel.
There should be a clip of Cheep failing a W and blowing himself backwards and dying from last year in the highlights.

I could be lying but ill check later tonight when I get the chance lolololololol

Also I'm real sad I missed the caster discussion. A few things to say I guess:
Sonivs comment about trying casting yourself....I'm not really sure how it applies. I know for certain that not everyone can cast well, either analysis or PBP, but I've never considered it something hard to do either.
I don't think that's a testament to my personal skill (mostly because I know I'm shit---TL gives me too much credit. <3 you guys but its true. ), I've just never found what I do for fun particularly taxing or difficult. I'm sure the amount of work it takes to actually be really good I would need much more practice and work put in...but on my level what I do I certainly wouldn't consider hard.

Caster hate- honestly I find I don't listen to them much or find I care a great deal for most of the analysis one way or the other
The massive caster skype group I am a part of though puts things into an interesting perspective---they know there are a lot of people like TL on the whole who hate their style or how they do things, but they carry on because they do receieve enough appreciation for doing so.

As far as restreaming LCS---Yanger has offered to have me restream a lot of Chinese LoL but I've heard horror stories about restreamers having their channels shut down. Not really worth it for me to risk it on LCS either. IHs are another story of course and I do enjoy doing them from time to time---Neo still waiting for your availability so we can do one and you can show me ur skillz!

On September 06 2013 03:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:


i mean whats the difference there between an in house performance with someone close to my level and just looking at solo q stats? i think ziggs is one of my most played champs :|

On September 06 2013 03:47 red_ wrote:


I'll cast with you if Neo dodges more. I think I prefer it to actually playing in the IH's right now(just kinda meh on playing, almost time for my yearly year long break).