[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 27

On September 06 2013 02:47 Osmoses wrote:
Phantomlord best ziggs na?

On September 06 2013 02:51 NeoIllusions wrote:
Cheep, plz play Ziggs in the next IH you play.
Edit: and make your team comp around Ziggs. I want to see dis in action.

On September 06 2013 02:34 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
also it hink the reason so many people think ziggs is [bad at X] or [not good enough at Y] is cause people build shitty items like chalice and tear first so they think he does no dmg, and they do it cause they're used to op shit where you can qwer off cd and not worry about mana

On September 06 2013 02:50 OhTwoMise wrote:




Opening less than 3 health pots is incredibly greedy. Odds are you're getting away with it because most support players have some kind of gentleman's agreement to do so. Or you can just buy pots and force people out of lane. Also, running combat-oriented runes is pretty sweet. Lulu and Zyra in particular (and probably Thresh as well, but I don't really play him) can 1v2 most lanes with something like split pen red/quints, 16/13/1 masteries. Unless the other support is running a similar setup, in which case, you'd damn well better have some pots.

On September 06 2013 02:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:


i played ziggs in the first liquidpractice in house we ever played months ago

also my league is broken right now i have the launcher/patcher won't launch bug where the game is stuck on the pvp.net logo when trying to run the rads kernel

gonna wait and see if riot resolves it cause i dont really want to reinstall my game zz

On September 06 2013 03:01 NeoIllusions wrote:

Sounds like a doj to me. I'll ask yanger for a ruling.

And that was months ago, plz play him in something recent and hopefully Monty can record. I'm unsold on Ziggs but you say otherwise.

On September 06 2013 02:50 OhTwoMise wrote:


I've never actually watched a Madden cast, but Riv3's speech patterns and (lack of) content remind me a lot of stereotypical Madden.

On September 06 2013 02:51 NeoIllusions wrote:
Cheep, plz play Ziggs in the next IH you play.
Edit: and make your team comp around Ziggs. I want to see dis in action.

On September 06 2013 03:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:


I'll play heimer against it.

On September 06 2013 03:07 xes wrote:

support WW also goes 20-0 vs silvers. ur theorycraft and doj are currently PX levels plz

On September 06 2013 03:01 Prog wrote:


I kinda agree on the health pots, though i'd say you can do fine with less on shielding champs (i sometimes get only 2 on Janna or Lulu). People opening with health and mana pots run all over you if you open with no, or nearly no pots at all.

Combat oriented runes are fine, but I would certainly not recommend 16/13/1, especially without any gp5 quints. It makes your lane too relient on a successfull early game. Split pen reds though are nearly always good.

On September 06 2013 03:08 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:


heimer is actually pretty good vs ziggs ironically enough, ziggs really has to chase down kills in lane for an advantage and heimer rockets hurt like hell vs poor squishy yordles ;;

On September 06 2013 03:08 Ryuu314 wrote:

Pretty sure Ziggs doesn't outdamage most of the champions I named as alternatives. Ziggs has less up front reliable burst than Lux, Xerath, and Oriana. The problem is that while is E can potentially do a ton of damage to one target, realistically you're not going to hit more than 1~3 E charges on the same target. E only does 140 (+0.3) damage on the first mine and does 56 (+0.12) on every mine after. That's 252 (+0.54) damage if you hit 3 charges, which is far below the damage curve. Ziggs has pretty good sustained poke damage with the low cd Q, but it's honestly not that hard to dodge, especially after the first bounce. Even then you can just play Nid who has basically double Zigg's poke damage for 2 seconds longer cd. Xerath is also arguably better at seiging since with 40% cdr he can ult basically at every single creep wave from long range for over 1k damage each time.

Ziggs Q costs 90 mana each, which is pretty ridiculous for somethin on such a low cooldown. He's gonna have mana problems without blue even if you don't cast W/E at all, especially if you don't build chalice/tear.

Ziggs' ult has a damage dropoff of 20% when not in the center and the center of the blast is pretty damn tiny. The delay time+the small center aoe means you're not going to hit the center most of the time unless the target is locked down. If you don't hit the center, it does 400 (+0.72), which is sub-par compared to other pure-damage ultis (compare to say Lux ult which does 500 (+0.75) or Karthus ult which does 550 (+0.6)). Of course, if you can consistently hit Ziggs ult in the center then it's easily one of, if not the most damaging nuke in the game, but doing so is pretty hard unless you have a comp with good lockdown. On top of that, if it's global/semi-global presence you want you'er better off picking Karthus for near-guaranteed damage or TF/Panth for the ganks.

It's entirely possible that I've only seen shitty Ziggs, but I honestly just don't see what he has to offer that other champs don't do as well or better. I'll believe it when I see it.

On September 06 2013 03:13 OhTwoMise wrote:


With that kind of opening, you SHOULD have a successful early game unless your carry is pants-on-head retarded. If your other lanes and jungle all lose, things will get dicey, but you should have enough money to ward regardless. I think people vastly overestimate how much income GP10 quints and masteries give them. Try playing without them; you might be surprised.