EPTOn September 16 2013 16:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Apparently TSM were winning a lot against the teams in group B.
Apparently TSM were winning a lot against the teams in group B.
good thing it doesn't help them to get out of group A :D
[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 161
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
good thing it doesn't help them to get out of group A :D | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On September 16 2013 16:42 TheYango wrote: Because BotRK gives you a powerful single item timing that translates into solo-killing potential against a lot of champs. Trinity is a powerful fighting item, but doesn't have the same solo-kill usefulness that BotRK does, especially since it no longer carries a slow. With Vayne and Twitch in particular this suits their power curves because they are strong duelists/solo-killers at that 1-item timing, but would not necessarily be strong teamfighters even if you chose teamfight-focused items. It has a lot more to do with laning. It's a lot harder to come out of lane with a triforce(no sustain) vs botrk. Also triforce corki can probably outduel botrk vayne/twitch assuming no wall stun and a good stockpile of rockets. Corki doesn't need to slow that much because he has valk for a massive gap closer. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 16 2013 16:58 TheYango wrote: Is it supposed to be news to us that they beat Mineski and Vulcun in scrims? They were able to beat both gambit and fnatic. I think that's news. This is a team that got utterly crushed by C9 btw so I don't think C9 would lose to the europeans either. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 16 2013 16:59 Amui wrote: It has a lot more to do with laning. It's a lot harder to come out of lane with a triforce(no sustain) vs botrk. Also triforce corki can probably outduel botrk vayne/twitch assuming no wall stun and a good stockpile of rockets. Corki doesn't need to slow that much because he has valk for a massive gap closer. Once corki finishes triforce he can definitely beat vayne/twitch. The burst is ridiculous. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On September 16 2013 17:06 Itsmedudeman wrote: They were able to beat both gambit and fnatic. I think that's news. This is a team that got utterly crushed by C9 btw so I don't think C9 would lose to the europeans either. Source? @yango <333 | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
http://au.gamespot.com/league-of-legends/videos/xpecial-is-confident-that-vulcun-will-make-it-out-of-groups-6414473/ | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 16 2013 17:06 Itsmedudeman wrote: They were able to beat both gambit and fnatic. I think that's news. This is a team that got utterly crushed by C9 btw so I don't think C9 would lose to the europeans either. Who cares about scrims? So many online heroes these days. TSM were also winning scrims vs C9 when they got destroyed by them when it matters. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On September 16 2013 16:42 TheYango wrote: Because BotRK gives you a powerful single item timing that translates into solo-killing potential against a lot of champs. Trinity is a powerful fighting item, but doesn't have the same solo-kill usefulness that BotRK does, especially since it no longer carries a slow. With Vayne and Twitch in particular this suits their power curves because they are strong duelists/solo-killers at that 1-item timing, but would not necessarily be strong teamfighters even if you chose teamfight-focused items. With twitch you can stealth and cask someone and the slow is pretty decent. With Bork twitches damage is pretty low as opposed to an IE or BT build, and with Vayne you run at someone with 500 ms theres no way you can't chase them or manage to get a condemn stun. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 16 2013 18:48 Numy wrote: Who cares about scrims? So many online heroes these days. TSM were also winning scrims vs C9 when they got destroyed by them when it matters. They were winning games with vlad* Scrim results don't matter? Jesus man On September 16 2013 18:53 Dusty wrote: With twitch you can stealth and cask someone and the slow is pretty decent. With Bork twitches damage is pretty low as opposed to an IE or BT build, and with Vayne you run at someone with 500 ms theres no way you can't chase them or manage to get a condemn stun. Twitch scales with attack speed very well because of his poison and expunge. Basically getting 6 stacks > expunge + botrk would ensure someone's death. At least before triforce era. Much harder to do that with BT first and the all in potential is no where as close. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
It's a completely different environment and saying one team can "won't lose" to another because of scrim results is just plain wrong. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On September 16 2013 18:54 Itsmedudeman wrote: They were winning games with vlad* Scrim results don't matter? Jesus man Twitch scales with attack speed very well because of his poison and expunge. Basically getting 6 stacks > expunge + botrk would ensure someone's death. At least before triforce era. Much harder to do that with BT first and the all in potential is no where as close. well, twitch can auto and cask right out of stealth, that's 3 stacks right there, and with 800 range and a 40+% aspd steroid you can easily reach full stacks in less than 3 seconds. Then you have stuff to account for like the extra crit chance or the ad scaling on expunge. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 16 2013 18:58 Numy wrote: Scrim results don't matter. How many times did people say CLG were so good since they were winning so many scrims in the first split but that never translated to actual results. Same thing with LD/ATN bootcamp. You can't take scrim results and drew conclusions based on them. It's a completely different environment and saying one team can "won't lose" to another because of scrim results is just plain wrong. Never said they wouldn't lose, but if you win scrims consistently against another team the only thing that will keep you back from winning on stage is nerve issues. Obviously 1 day of scrims isn't the be all end all, but I'd like to remind you how EU were saying NA has no chance and that NA were the weakest region. I think this just shows that vulcan winning was not a fluke. Looking forward to seeing more EU vs NA games because so far it's 1-0. well, twitch can auto and cask right out of stealth, that's 3 stacks right there, and with 800 range and a 40+% aspd steroid you can easily reach full stacks in less than 3 seconds. Then you have stuff to account for like the extra crit chance or the ad scaling on expunge. Yes but also realize that the BT timing isn't as strong as the Botrk timing. You don't have stacks yet while botrk will be ready immediately and is incredibly strong when your opponent doesn't have an answer for it. Triforce on every adc is becoming an interesting subject now. Although I think it's just suboptimal on champions like twitch and kogmaw and you should just play corki instead. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On September 16 2013 19:05 Itsmedudeman wrote: Never said they wouldn't lose, but if you win scrims consistently against another team the only thing that will keep you back from winning on stage is nerve issues. Obviously 1 day of scrims isn't the be all end all, but I'd like to remind you how EU were saying NA has no chance and that NA were the weakest region. I think this just shows that vulcan winning was not a fluke. Looking forward to seeing more EU vs NA games because so far it's 1-0. Yes but also realize that the BT timing isn't as strong as the Botrk timing. You don't have stacks yet while botrk will be ready immediately and is incredibly strong when your opponent doesn't have an answer for it. Triforce on every adc is becoming an interesting subject now. Although I think it's just suboptimal on champions like twitch and kogmaw and you should just play corki instead. You are also disregarding the fact that the other team might play much better in front of an audience. Nerve issues and adrenaline can go both ways, some people work best if their blood is pumping and they are under pressure, others crumble etc. Scrims always have and always will be useless to predict real results. You might not try just as hard in a scrim, you might give up if you are 10k behind. You might take too big risks because it's just a scrim etc. etc. etc. What matters in the end is how they play when it counts. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On September 16 2013 19:05 Itsmedudeman wrote: Never said they wouldn't lose, but if you win scrims consistently against another team the only thing that will keep you back from winning on stage is nerve issues. Obviously 1 day of scrims isn't the be all end all, but I'd like to remind you how EU were saying NA has no chance and that NA were the weakest region. I think this just shows that vulcan winning was not a fluke. Looking forward to seeing more EU vs NA games because so far it's 1-0. Yes but also realize that the BT timing isn't as strong as the Botrk timing. You don't have stacks yet while botrk will be ready immediately and is incredibly strong when your opponent doesn't have an answer for it. Triforce on every adc is becoming an interesting subject now. Although I think it's just suboptimal on champions like twitch and kogmaw and you should just play corki instead. Perhaps its just preference for every player. There are definitely upsides and downsides to both items as a first buy. And about Trinity, it's strong on Kog because it allows him to maintain max range with the ms passive and his ult gives him trinity procs. It's almost like Trinity Corki in a sense, even though their kits are pretty different. I think Trinity is good on any carry with short spammable cooldowns like Ez, Corki, Vayne, Kog, and Draven (dem refreshes) but bad on those with high cooldowns like Twitch, Trist, and Cait. And even though Quinn's cooldowns arent particularly short I feel she benefits a lot from the phage passive. Perhaps just buying that and leaving it till lategame would be decent. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Sadly twitch is a bit inferior in the trinity era. Just not needed anymore when corki easily takes his place. Twitch was all about his laning and strong all in potential. Corki easily outclasses him in that regard right now and has better matchups. | ||
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