EPTOn July 15 2013 10:32 Ketara wrote:
I doubt Riot is likely to make items with actives but no stats.
I doubt Riot is likely to make items with actives but no stats.
Flask, Sightstone
[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Flask, Sightstone | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 15 2013 10:42 Requizen wrote: Why is "low level players might not use it" even an argument? Since when do we balance things around Bronze and Silver? Cuz Riot philosophy. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
i swear that most of my losses are against vaynes and i feel like most characters i play are incapable of killing her fast enough or CCing her long enough | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
About Vayne, Ryze tends to do 0K, or any champ with a root (since they tend to be longer than stuns and still stop the tumble/stealth. I can't really fight a fed Vayne as Orianna if she's low enough I can prevent the tumbles because she knows I'll just QW her as soon as she uses it, during clean-up fights. Can't do shit to a Vayne gambling on a crit and straight-up rushing me though. With Viktor I can just rely on her short effective range to wait for her to come in and QRE, since she's so squishy it lets me 100-0 most of the time during the midgame. Later on it depends a lot on being able to chip her down with E poke, and abusing her Tumble downtime to punish it with W (hard if she does it well because you have a 1.5s before she gets stunned, W's animation is more than 0.5s to begin with, and if she tumbles to you and you use W first she's gonna 3-shot you before you cast anything more anyway). When I have Zhonya as Viktor I can generally abuse it after the initial combo to make sure I get a stun off, and if she survives to the additional 3-4s of my ult's periodic damage I can pray on my Q cd to come back, I'll usually get the shield pretty fast since she'll be close to me. | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
I think it's misleading to call flask an active | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On July 15 2013 10:40 nafta wrote: Let's just remove jungle because there is no way you can predict where the jungler is? Come on.Give people at least some credit.Any person who has 2 functioning hands and can turn on a computer should be able to click 1/2 more buttons. And if you can't then just don't buy it. I don't think Riots design philosophy is to create items that they intend for people to not buy. Nor do I think their design philosophy is to ignore half or more of their players. Just a guess. On July 15 2013 11:06 MattBarry wrote: I think it's misleading to call flask an active I doubt many people fail to ever use Flask, and I think it's pretty misleading to say Sightstone doesn't have stats. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On July 15 2013 11:06 MattBarry wrote: I think it's misleading to call flask an active I dunno, I see a lot of people in Bronze/Silver die when they would have lived if they chugged a pot right when they started receiving damage. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 15 2013 11:06 MattBarry wrote: I think it's misleading to call flask an active Why? Lower level players forget to pop their pots/flasks in trades all the time, which is the exact same thing as what Ketara is saying about them not using item actives. On July 15 2013 11:09 Ketara wrote: I doubt many people fail to ever use Flask, and I think it's pretty misleading to say Sightstone doesn't have stats. Sightstone provides pretty much the amount of stats you could put on a ~1k gold support active item. I don't see why Sightstone is a poor comparison. For example, by cost, Shard of True Ice's active is worth ~350 gold. You could easily put this onto a 1k gold support active item, and still have room to add combat stats onto it--but instead Riot chose to put it on an unwieldy combination of Kage and Mana Manipulator. | ||
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
But flask is a bad example. You can use it all the time, and only have to press the button what, 6 times in the course of the game for it to be cost efficient or something silly like that? Even terrible players probably get most of their moneys worth out of flask, even if they aren't using it correctly. Furthermore it's not a big expensive item that is supposed to feel powerful and fun, it's a little thing you're getting for cost efficiency and you're gonna sell it later. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On July 15 2013 11:12 cLutZ wrote: Drinking pots during engagements, from my experience, is a Gold+ level skill. This man speaks nothing but truth. As man firmly entrenched in Silver, I can vouch for it. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Also actives are generally fun and people use fun stuff.Like lux/vayne/lee are pretty popular at low elo yet they are kind of trash tier if you aren't good on them. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On July 15 2013 10:45 TheYango wrote: Sightstone provides pretty much the amount of stats you could put on a ~1k gold support active item. I don't see why Sightstone is a poor comparison. For example, by cost, Shard of True Ice's active is worth ~350 gold. You could easily put this onto a 1k gold support active item, and still have room to add combat stats onto it--but instead Riot chose to put it on an unwieldy combination of Kage and Mana Manipulator. Yeah I can see that. What I really like about Shard is it keeps the GP10. If say, Shurelya's had less regen on it but kept the GP10, it'd look more attractive I'm sure. If Twin Shadows had less MR on it but kept the GP10 I bet it'd look more attractive for supports too. Mana Manipulator is a weird item because it's like super amazing good early game, and becomes more and more useless the later the game goes on. By pairing it with Kage in the Shard recipe you're left with this situation where you really want to be getting both items first, but you want Kage more, and then by the time you get the Mana Manip and finish the recipe the mana regen has lost much of its power. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
The importance of CS, even if they're bad at it, is known in low levels now, and has been for some time. The importance of having a jungler, the importance of leashing for the jungler, the power of invading the jungler, and even the power of counter-jungling are all there. The ridiculous power of Flash is known. In some way, shape, or form, most ideas which were at one point or another only used or known at the high level have permeated all but the absolute lowest, most insanely terrible levels of play. Even terrible players occasionally remember their Zhonya's and feel good about it. Adding more Sightstone-like items isn't going to introduce an element into the game that low level players will never use. They may mishandle them, but they'll enjoy them just like everyone else. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 15 2013 11:21 Seuss wrote: Even terrible players occasionally remember their Zhonya's and feel good about it. Or sometimes they just make Youtube videos about using Zhonya's in inappropriate situations as a taunt. | ||
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