EPTleague has nowhere close to the amount of hard cc that dota has
[Patch 3.09: Spirit Guard Udyr Patch] General Discussion -…
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
league has nowhere close to the amount of hard cc that dota has | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On July 23 2013 13:57 FinestHour wrote: bkb exists in dota because theres a lot more hard cc and chainstunning is a bigger deal league has nowhere close to the amount of hard cc that dota has Enough to give melee characters hell :p | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On July 23 2013 13:44 Slusher wrote: honestly a more similar comparison to dota would be if people tried to go scimitar first item, it's not like melee carries in dota are going deadalis(IE kinda) first item the problem is a lot of the hybrid defensive items would be "toxic" by riot standards Lothar's/Manta/BKB could never happen. Someone got mad at me because I didn't build Crystalys first item on Drow. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On July 23 2013 14:20 FinestHour wrote: you were probably playing with bronze or silver level equivalent people whos opinions are probably wrong 100 percent of the time Everyone knows MoM is the only drow item. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On July 23 2013 12:15 justiceknight wrote: i am running out of option of top lane too Jayce is shit now 30 mins muramana LOL ryze? next patch nerfed Zac? prefer jg J4 meh vi no jax no irelia no vlad? mid or feed nasus? prefer jg other "viables" Kennen Yorick? really? elise ok malphite ok anymore???? No love for Riven top? And isn't Kha'Zix also viable on top? Singed seems like an ok champ too. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On July 23 2013 14:20 FinestHour wrote: you were probably playing with bronze or silver level equivalent people whos opinions are probably wrong 100 percent of the time As a Silver 3, I resent that! (Actually I don't have time to grind ranked. lol) | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 23 2013 13:40 onlywonderboy wrote: I just feel like Riot should stop trying to make Melee Carries a thing. It already only exists in a limited format and there has always been problems associated with it. Even if they were to make it a thing it would require a much larger overhaul than they've put in so far. Edit: Or at least the glass cannon type anyway, like syl said, Dota Melee Carriers are closer to Jax than Fiora. Well in all honesty, melee glass cannon carries were never a thing at the highest level of play, even in Dota. It just doesn't work due to how the game works. As a melee, you need to gap close; even with a gap closing skill, you will get slaughtered before or as soon as you reach the enemy team. On July 23 2013 13:57 FinestHour wrote: bkb exists in dota because theres a lot more hard cc and chainstunning is a bigger deal league has nowhere close to the amount of hard cc that dota has Well, to be fair, nukes get significantly less powerful as the game drags on. In Dota, tankiness generally outscales damage (except in the case of rapier and maybe crit). Team fights also last a lot longer, so chainstunning is a necessity. In league, fights rarely last for more than a several seconds since the majority of damage abilities continue to scale and scale quite well. So cc can't really last for a long time without being broken, unless they have a significant drawback (like suppressions). | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Skithiryx
Australia648 Posts
On July 23 2013 14:00 onlywonderboy wrote: Enough to give melee characters hell :p *edit Ryuu explained it better | ||
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
can some1 make a wall paper of the poro w/o words? The image is above. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
On July 23 2013 14:51 Ryuu314 wrote: Well in all honesty, melee glass cannon carries were never a thing at the highest level of play, even in Dota. It just doesn't work due to how the game works. As a melee, you need to gap close; even with a gap closing skill, you will get slaughtered before or as soon as you reach the enemy team. Well, to be fair, nukes get significantly less powerful as the game drags on. In Dota, tankiness generally outscales damage (except in the case of rapier and maybe crit). Team fights also last a lot longer, so chainstunning is a necessity. In league, fights rarely last for more than a several seconds since the majority of damage abilities continue to scale and scale quite well. So cc can't really last for a long time without being broken, unless they have a significant drawback (like suppressions). im sure we have all had that feel when your 6 slotted adc gets melted in a dfg duration by some mage and you lose game | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On July 23 2013 14:35 Kinie wrote: No love for Riven top? And isn't Kha'Zix also viable on top? Singed seems like an ok champ too. You seem like you just dont like the game anymore. Also, Renekton, Quinn, Riven, Cho gath | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On July 23 2013 15:24 FinestHour wrote: im sure we have all had that feel when your 6 slotted adc gets melted in a dfg duration by some mage and you lose game You mean that horrible, horrible period of pre nerf eve mid. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 23 2013 15:48 Fusilero wrote: You mean that horrible, horrible period of pre nerf eve mid. ohgod that was so dumb lol pre-nerf DFG+pre-nerf eve ult was just silly. Press 2 buttons, maybe 3 and the AD carry dies. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
The great thing about him is that his damage never falls of later because of his retarded free 40% Mpen, the longer the game goes the more shit you wreck, that and like the best ult in the game on a 36 second spammable cd. I really hope they dont slaughter him in the rework, he is a bit boring now but it would be a shame to turn him into some lame-ass version of brand or something. | ||
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Vanka
China1336 Posts
On July 23 2013 13:40 onlywonderboy wrote: I just feel like Riot should stop trying to make Melee Carries a thing. It already only exists in a limited format and there has always been problems associated with it. Even if they were to make it a thing it would require a much larger overhaul than they've put in so far. Edit: Or at least the glass cannon type anyway, like syl said, Dota Melee Carriers are closer to Jax than Fiora. I'm still of the opinion that the game is in fact in a state that you could concievably run a team comp without a ranged adc with an melee glass cannon carry, we've just never seen a team with the teamwork and mechanical prowess be brave enough to attempt something like that. Imagine this, an adc sion running at the enemy team with zilean and lulu speed boost, boots of speed + lowered slow effectiveness mastery, and 4 cleanses (cleanse summoner, qss, and two cruicibles) with AP janna shield and a big aoe cc jungler like amumu or sejuani. When he gets low, you still have lulu and zilean ult. You can even throw in ohmwrecker and you can fight under towers. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On July 23 2013 16:20 Vanka wrote: I'm still of the opinion that the game is in fact in a state that you could concievably run a team comp without an adc with an melee glass cannon carry, we've just never seen with the teamwork and mechanical prowess be brave enough to attempt something like that. Imagine this, an adc sion running at the enemy team with zilean and lulu speed boost, boots of speed + lowered slow effectiveness mastery, and 4 cleanses (cleanse summoner, qss, and two cruicibles) with AP janna shield and a big aoe cc jungler like amumu or sejuani. When he gets low, you still have lulu and zilean ult. You can even throw in ohmwrecker and you can fight under towers. yeah maybe you could make it work, but could AD Sion 4 protect 1 ever be as strong as just having Vayne and peeling for her a bit? The level of coordination required to correctly use 4 CC cleanses alone without fucking up would be insane, and a single mistake when absolutely all you eggs are in the melee carry basket is an instant loss. | ||
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XilDarkz
United States563 Posts
On July 23 2013 02:30 wei2coolman wrote: No one will be interested in making a team with you unless you're at least diamond or challengers. As far as solo queue not making you a better player; that's a lie. Solo queue is a very helpful training ground, it helps build experience and dem mechanics. Look at all the top players in all the regions; they all got good through solo queue. Anyone with any input on this? I find that in Solo Queue, I never feel like I am the worst player on my team, and those are the games you learn from, not when you're always the best. In HoN and Dota, I was always able to join inhouses and ring at a high level and learn very quickly--and in Starcraft, you are always the worst player. With 6 years of Dota+HoN+Dota2 experience in terms of mechanics and map awareness, is solo queue really still teaching me how to effectively zone and harass? It certainly isn't teaching me how to coordinate with a jungler or a support or other lanes for ganks. I feel like solo queue is teaching me how to play 1v5, which is a completely different game. I simply have ZERO coordination in these games, compared to Dota2 or HoN where I exclusively used voice. I simply haven't been playing more than three or four games a day on average because of a feeling of a lack of progress--at least in Dota where mechanics mattered more, I could get into a sort of "top-form" and nail my mechanics and always ensure I was the worst player in the game... Are there really no inhouse leagues? Amateur scrims and ringing? I am starting to feel like Dota is more appropriate (if only America was worth a shit in Dota...) for pro-am play. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On July 23 2013 16:39 XilDarkz wrote: Anyone with any input on this? I find that in Solo Queue, I never feel like I am the worst player on my team, and those are the games you learn from, not when you're always the best. In HoN and Dota, I was always able to join inhouses and ring at a high level and learn very quickly--and in Starcraft, you are always the worst player. With 6 years of Dota+HoN+Dota2 experience in terms of mechanics and map awareness, is solo queue really still teaching me how to effectively zone and harass? It certainly isn't teaching me how to coordinate with a jungler or a support or other lanes for ganks. I feel like solo queue is teaching me how to play 1v5, which is a completely different game. I simply have ZERO coordination in these games, compared to Dota2 or HoN where I exclusively used voice. I simply haven't been playing more than three or four games a day on average because of a feeling of a lack of progress--at least in Dota where mechanics mattered more, I could get into a sort of "top-form" and nail my mechanics and always ensure I was the worst player in the game... Are there really no inhouse leagues? Amateur scrims and ringing? I am starting to feel like Dota is more appropriate (if only America was worth a shit in Dota...) for pro-am play. I mean sure, maybe it would be better off, but the fact is that people are correct and its gonna be really hard to find a inhouse group, especially if you aren't already quite good. You'd have to find people basically willing to charity play with you. Why would they want to play with someone significantly worse than them for the same reasons you stated. Also, I get the impression that you feel like you should just hop into mid/high level organized play because of your extensive experience in other games. When in reality the kind of practice you need at this point is exactly what you would get from soloque. Namely learning every skill, item, and champion in the game and internalizing their damage potential/range and behavior until its automatic. Its great that you have this solid strategic and teamplay basis, you shouldn't have to work on that nearly as much as just practicing lane matchups and having enough raw game knowledge to know when plays can be made. This is exactly what soloque is used for. Also you should know that even at the highest level league players play a huge amount of soloque, even koreans, just to practice these skills. So don't feel like you are wasting your time. | ||
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