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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On June 29 2013 02:52 TheYango wrote: You also probably haven't seen an Amumu get lane farm aggressively enough for it to work since the time when "gank tax" was a thing. No I've seen it, they still build tank. | ||
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canucks12
Canada812 Posts
Support Nunu is so incredibly boring, not to mention weak. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Also, jcarl, Amumu doesn't get defensive bonuses on his passive. wat u talkin' bout. The passive on his E yes. | ||
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Spaiku
Spain1114 Posts
I keep taxing the shit out of my laners and laugh as they spam me with pings to back | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On June 29 2013 02:50 Diamond wrote: Wait this is the same mummy that builds pretty much pure tank and even takes armor quints right? That mummy? I haven't seen an Amumu build anything AP aside for Abyssal in FOREVER. Amumu picks also scream "COUNTER JUNGLE ME!". When someone picks it, I just laugh and pick Noc and live in his jungle. Sej while weak early, is no where near that level of counter able, as if you catch her i n the jungle she can just Q over whatever wall is close, while Amumu needs to find a minion for his escape. Edit: They literally fill the same role. Initiator tank jungles. Sure one may have more damage than the other. But is Xin not initiator tank because he does more damage than J4? Amumu needs to be "just tanky enough" to go in and start DPSing, since his damage doesn't scale directly with tankiness like Sejuani. However, it's a fine line between "just tanky enough" and "gets instagibbed," so most people just build him pure tank and win simply through map control + level advantage. Still, his kit resembles more of an AP bruiser's than a tank's. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 29 2013 02:56 Lord Tolkien wrote: As noted: build tanky AP on the Mummy. Stuff like Spectral Wraith/Abyssal/Sunfire/Liandrys are all much more effective on Amumu, and people underrate just how much magic damage he can actually do. Also, jcarl, Amumu doesn't get defensive bonuses on his passive. wat u talkin' bout. The passive on his E yes. My mistake. Meant to say that he lowers enemy MR. Been a while since I've played him, got mixed up in my brain. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On June 29 2013 02:55 TheYango wrote: I would argue that an Amumu that gets farmed enough to be equivalent to a laner's farm should be building damage. When does a jungler get the same farm as a lane? Isn't that the entire idea behind the jungle items (and why they are so cheap) that junglers will almost never get the same as a lane farm? Even more so with one of the most blue dependent junglers out there? Sure AP Amumu can do damage, but if I want damage in the jungle I'll just pick something like Diana or attack speed Xin, and do that proper. Edit: Also for the range thing, Sej Q/R has a bigger range than Amumu Q/R. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On June 29 2013 03:15 Diamond wrote: When does a jungler get the same farm as a lane? Isn't that the entire idea behind the jungle items (and why they are so cheap) that junglers will almost never get the same as a lane farm. Even more so with one of the most blue dependent junglers out there? Sure AP Amumu can do damage, but if I want damage in the jungle I'll just pick something like Diana or attack speed Xin, and do that proper. A combination of Taxy McTaxerson and getting farm distribution after laning phase. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 29 2013 03:15 Diamond wrote: Edit: Also for the range thing, Sej Q/R has a bigger range than Amumu Q/R. Sejuani's R is 1175 range when Amumu's Bandage Toss is 1100, but the projectile speed is slow enough that the last 75 range should pretty much never actually mean the difference between missing and hitting them. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On June 29 2013 03:21 kainzero wrote: A combination of Taxy McTaxerson and getting farm distribution after laning phase. Still, will never get close unless yoru lanes just randomly stop CS'ing all game. On June 29 2013 03:21 TheYango wrote: Sejuani's R is 1175 range when Amumu's Bandage Toss is 1100, but the projectile speed is slow enough that the last 75 range should pretty much never actually mean the difference between missing and hitting them. You forgot the 650 range of Q. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Since I play a bunch of Naut it doesn't let me play aggressively in the jungle nor dive because of the lack of, respectively, dueling power and burst, but since I'll be ganking as soon as my ult is up it makes the timing much earlier, esp. when ganking bot. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Amumu doesn't actually do any of that stuff beyond his ultimate. He has 2 purely damage skills and a third skill that is primarily damage. So his MO should be maximizing his damage output. What does Amumu do in the fight after his ult if he's not doing damage? Nothing. He doesn't have teamfight control abilities so the only usefulness he brings to the table is to be farmed and do damage. His initial Q+R don't make him fundamentally need to be tanky, because he blows those close to the beginning of the fight. Being tanky doesn't make those spells better, whereas being tanky on Sejuani lets you see more Q/E cooldowns, in turn providing more supportive usefulness to the rest of your team. Tankiness only serves Amumu where being tanky allows him to do more damage by being alive longer--but being alive and doing no damage is worthless for him. On June 29 2013 03:22 Diamond wrote: You forgot the 650 range of Q. You're going to Q->R and expect to actually hit something off the long movement delay, while also wasting the medium-long cooldown and significant damage of her Q? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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XaCez
Sweden6991 Posts
On June 29 2013 03:28 cLutZ wrote: Isn't it obvious why Amumu > Sejuani in Bronze? IP Costs. Its the same reason every other bronze Support is Taric. Ashe/Soraka vs Sivir/Taric all games all day.  | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 29 2013 02:29 AsmodeusXI wrote: Just the assumption that he should be immediately picked even if no one wants him is really obnoxious is all. it should be more offensive to you that you are on the same skill level as players who think amumu should be immediately picked you are using your elitism in the wrong way On June 29 2013 03:28 TheYango wrote: Diamond the thing you're missing here about Amumu is that he basically has no teamfight control skills beyond his initial ultimate and unreliable bandage tosses. Other junglers have lower-cooldown teamfight control spells that mean they do things in an extended fight. Jarvan E->Q, Xin Q and E, Sejuani Q and E. These champs do things other than damage when the fight is drawn out so staying alive to do these things is how they itemize, which is why they pick defensive/supportive items. Amumu doesn't actually do any of that stuff beyond his ultimate. He has 2 purely damage skills and a third skill that is primarily damage. So his MO should be maximizing his damage output. What does Amumu do in the fight after his ult if he's not doing damage? Nothing. He doesn't have teamfight control abilities so the only usefulness he brings to the table is to be farmed and do damage. You're going to Q->R and expect to actually hit something off the long movement delay, while also wasting the medium-long cooldown and significant damage of her Q? at max cdr Amumus Q is a 1100 range, 1 second stun and gapcloser for nearly 300 damage on a 4.8 second cooldown, easily close to other tanks and such. riot even thought he was strong enough to nerf his Q and R damage/cc also amumus sustained damage frmo his W also give a lot of incentive for doing something other than being a Q R damage bot | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
its not easy to hit just because of how strong it is, the fact that its a gapcloser is a double edged sword and the main reason you build tank | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
as said before, in soloqueue what's "OP" doesnt really matter except for giving an escuse to people if they play badly. I d rather play vs jayce and kennen than having to deal with annoying shithead s like nunu and shaco | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On June 29 2013 03:28 TheYango wrote: Diamond the thing you're missing here about Amumu is that he basically has no teamfight control skills beyond his initial ultimate and unreliable bandage tosses. Other junglers have lower-cooldown teamfight control spells that mean they do things in an extended fight. Jarvan E->Q, Xin Q and E, Sejuani Q and E. These champs do things other than damage when the fight is drawn out so staying alive to do these things is how they itemize, which is why they pick defensive/supportive items. Amumu doesn't actually do any of that stuff beyond his ultimate. He has 2 purely damage skills and a third skill that is primarily damage. So his MO should be maximizing his damage output. What does Amumu do in the fight after his ult if he's not doing damage? Nothing. He doesn't have teamfight control abilities so the only usefulness he brings to the table is to be farmed and do damage. His initial Q+R don't make him fundamentally need to be tanky, because he blows those close to the beginning of the fight. Being tanky doesn't make those spells better, whereas being tanky on Sejuani lets you see more Q/E cooldowns, in turn providing more supportive usefulness to the rest of your team. Tankiness only serves Amumu where being tanky allows him to do more damage by being alive longer--but being alive and doing no damage is worthless for him. Seems like you just made my argument for me. Keep in mind Sej damage increases with health, and she has almost identical AP ratios as Amumu. The thing is damage jungles suck, and that's why no one does it on Amumu. It's the same exact reason Noc builds tank now, the day of damage jungles is long long gone. Amumu brings nothing to the table Sej does not aside for longer Q range at the sacrifice you have to hit something or it does nothing at all. Bandage is also a stun (which can be reduced by tenacity) vs the Sej Q knockup (which cannot be reduced by tenacity. If you want a damage jungle with good initiation just pick Diana or something, Amumu needs a bazillion AP to start wrecking people. You're going to Q->R and expect to actually hit something off the long movement delay, while also wasting the medium-long cooldown and significant damage of her Q? Yes I do it all the time, it's a pretty easy combo to land and can punish teams with poor positioning. I'm not trying to say you CAN'T build damage on Amumu or anything, just it's not very good aside for Abyssal. On June 29 2013 03:33 TheYango wrote: I still consider Bandage Toss fundamentally a damage spell and not a teamfight control spell. It's not a teamfight control spell or damage, it's in initiate. | ||
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