• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:17
CEST 07:17
KST 14:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion Syncronization issues and can't find games [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro16 Group C KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7671 users

[Patch 3.06: Lissandra Patch] General Discussion - Page 63

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 189 Next
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
May 03 2013 23:00 GMT
#1241
I don't think the playoffs themselves are that bad. I think it's just they make the actual league meaningless. If they could find a way to bring meaning to the league and still have playoffs I would be more than happy.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
May 03 2013 23:05 GMT
#1242
I'm with Thorin, current format makes regular season pointless.
I disagree with Travis about how he wants to see who's the best at the end (last few weeks). Totally negates the point of the first few weeks and a league in general. Sounds like he would like more tournaments and see the best that teams bring to that one weekend.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 23:13:49
May 03 2013 23:10 GMT
#1243
On May 04 2013 07:55 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 07:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:
On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:
So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them.

+ Show Spoiler +
For those who haven't seen it, here's the link to Thorin's post about re-working the LCS format:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1dbyfc/the_current_lcs_promotion_situation_shows_that/c9p1uu2


I think that format is stupid for a few reasons:

1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to.
2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs.
3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this:
A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches
B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs.
C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches.
D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination.

Edit: Also,

How is it that there is no State of the League that is even approaching the level of SOTG? Travis's show is absolutely boring, not only in that it lacks star power, but it lacks substantive discussion. Its basically a talk about NA and EU lcs matches (which everyone already knows about) with reddit-level analysis. It should be a short discussion of results (with some asian scene updates) with in-depth discussion of any new strategies that have come out + ample amounts of Idra-like QQ about "OP" stuff.

Whose League is for LoL content creators, State of the League is where he has pro players on (but he's had a hard time finding people willing to give up practice time to do the show).

The current LCS format isn't that bad, it would just be better if there were more teams (I don't want more teams, but it would alleviate a lot of problems people have with the current system). I don't see the problem with GGU finishing 6th in the regular season and 2nd in the playoffs, the Kings won the Stanley Cup last year as an eight seed and the last two times the Giants won the Super Bowl they had pretty mediocre regular seasons. GGU came to play in the playoffs and beat both Curse and dig fair and square, who cares about regular season record at that point.

1/2 the league being potentially turned over is possibly a bit extreme. But only 2 would be so incumbent-friendly. As it is they are already getting a bye into the final round of relegation (also stupid).


The proposal that I've heard from both Thorin and others is to copy the LPL and have the bottom two at the end of the season get relegated with six amateur teams in an eight team tournament. The bottom two LCS teams have no advantage in that tournament and the absolute best six amateur teams duke it out. There's no ideal way to handle amateurs getting promoted into the LCS with only 8 teams but I think having 4 teams be potentially replaced destroys a lot of what makes the LCS interesting.

If CLG, Dig, Marn, and Complexity all got eliminated (very very unlikely but still) it'd pretty much ruin NA LCS for me. Whereas if just two teams got replaced you'd still have mostly all the same faces as last season.

edit:
Imagine if, in the current system, TSM slumps during the end of the summer season and places 3rd. They could lose a bo3 in the playoffs and then we could potentially see the elimination of the best NA team purely because they lost a bo3 and then lost a bo5. Seems waaaaay too harsh and ridiculous. Especially if a team is putting up consistent wins in the regular season (which proves they belong there way more than a single bo3 and a single bo5).
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
May 03 2013 23:12 GMT
#1244
Doing what OGN makes the most sense. Have a second tournament once you reach knock-out stages. While OGN is structured more towards playoffs and eliminations, there is no reason a similar arrangement could not be adapted, especially for the Summer LCS Season when we'll need to have knockouts for the NA Regional Representation.

He's a picture I made for one of our TL articles on the OGN showing what they do.

[image loading]
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 23:15:56
May 03 2013 23:13 GMT
#1245
This system would be fine if there was a parallel league below LCS but there isn't so it just doesn't make sense.

EDIT: Dam too slow.
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
May 03 2013 23:17 GMT
#1246
The idea seems convoluted and not conducive of a Grand Finals at the end. I get we wanted up and down matches, but even those didn't take place until a champion was already going to be established.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
May 03 2013 23:18 GMT
#1247
To be fair, for a long time in the NHL the south East team that made the playoffs and got home ice usually would not have even qualified for the playoffs if they were in another division. Likewise, back in the last nineties mid two thousands the teams in the north west got screwed a fair amount because they'd miss the dance despite having twenty more points than the team in third place.

NHL has much better parity now though.

IMO, they need to have more teams. Say twelve. Top six automatically make playoffs, then seven through ten fight for last two spots. Four teams that miss go to relegation, then of the teams that go our first round have them do a placement series and losers go to relegation.

Allows for upsets, gets rid of the one good weekends you win thing.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
May 03 2013 23:19 GMT
#1248
Sounds to me like the solution to this whole argument would be to increase the number of teams in the LCS. If it was 12 or 16 teams and 4 were dropping out I doubt you'd all have an issue.

Something that I imagine will happen naturally as the game gets bigger and more people play/watch it.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17303 Posts
May 03 2013 23:23 GMT
#1249
The "solution" is to not disregard regular season standings so readily.
twitch.tv/cratonz
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 23:30:07
May 03 2013 23:28 GMT
#1250
On May 04 2013 08:18 iCanada wrote:
IMO, they need to have more teams. Say twelve. Top six automatically make playoffs, then seven through ten fight for last two spots. Four teams that miss go to relegation, then of the teams that go our first round have them do a placement series and losers go to relegation.

Allows for upsets, gets rid of the one good weekends you win thing.


If you make playoffs it really doesn't make sense that you can be relegated at all. You made playoffs. I'd be fine with them adding more teams and then having more teams drop out but I don't think 50% of your league should be relegated and I don't think 75% of your league should be going to playoffs.

I also think the suggestion about getting worlds spots in spring playoffs is good because it makes spring playoffs actually worth something (other than avoiding relegation).
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
May 03 2013 23:30 GMT
#1251
Just do it like Broodwar proleague used to do it...
Make the X teams that ended last in the regular season face relegation
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
May 03 2013 23:33 GMT
#1252
Way too much priority put on a single bo3. Maybe, maaaaaaaaybe if it was a bo5 it would be a little bit easier to swallow but right now Dignitas, who performed quite decently throughout the season has a chance to be knocked out while two teams who just barely scraped through to make it to the playoffs have a secure spot? Not cool.
Retvrn to Forvms
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
May 03 2013 23:38 GMT
#1253
On May 04 2013 08:23 Craton wrote:
The "solution" is to not disregard regular season standings so readily.


I also don't think that the solution should include protecting CLG from relegation. While I think they deserve to be in the LCS, I think they also deserve to have to prove that.

This isn't the EPL where even mediocre teams have proven over a long history that they are worthy. LCS is literally 3 (?) months old, and real LOL competition is less than 2 years old. Only 3 of the LCS teams got into the LCS in a different way than teams like Azure are trying to, and that was less than 6 months ago!

Is there really any logic to giving the 5 teams that qualified on January 13th some innate advantage over the ones that perform well in May?
Freeeeeeedom
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 23:49:08
May 03 2013 23:45 GMT
#1254
On May 04 2013 08:38 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 08:23 Craton wrote:
The "solution" is to not disregard regular season standings so readily.


I also don't think that the solution should include protecting CLG from relegation. While I think they deserve to be in the LCS, I think they also deserve to have to prove that.

This isn't the EPL where even mediocre teams have proven over a long history that they are worthy. LCS is literally 3 (?) months old, and real LOL competition is less than 2 years old. Only 3 of the LCS teams got into the LCS in a different way than teams like Azure are trying to, and that was less than 6 months ago!

Is there really any logic to giving the 5 teams that qualified on January 13th some innate advantage over the ones that perform well in May?


Well I mean, if you want to ignore the fact that Dignitas and CLG played so well in the first part of the season that they finished #3 and #4...

Based on season standings Dig and CLG are better teams than Vulcun and GGU. Despite the fact that Vulcun and GGU are protected and had really strong playoff runs. If the #3 and #4 team can be relegated why do we even have a league? Why not just have three months of weekly tournaments where you invite people who finish high the previous week and have qualifiers for amateur teams and teams that are "pro" who didn't finish high enough the previous week to get an invite? At least then matches would mean something. Then just have a big world qualifier tournament in the spring and summer based on points earned throughout the previous three months.

Or just copy OGN. Or just take Thorin's solution. Or Riot can come up with an entirely new system. The current system though makes the regular season completely worthless and the fact that there is no amateur scene ensures that teams are probably going to disband if they get knocked out of the LCS.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 23:53:28
May 03 2013 23:46 GMT
#1255
Hmmm; I like the parallel league idea; but that was suppose to be the whole point of amateur tournaments like MLG, and with the whole "points" system; but not enough emphasis being put on them, making amateur scene fairly unknown.

During the whole Spring LCS; how many big viewed tournaments were their for amateur teams? like 1?
Pretty silly; can't have parallel league if Riot not even willing to put more views on amateur teams; muchless add an entirely new league dedicated for them.

The issue with most leagues; this includes majority of sports, is that it ends up being about generating players not teams, I welcome a league where teams can drop out fairly easily.
liftlift > tsm
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 23:53:41
May 03 2013 23:51 GMT
#1256
I think the problem is normally if you drop out of a tournament there's still another one around the corner. Now Riot killed all the other tournaments and replaced them with a much longer format. So what happens when you drop out? It's a waste land basically. Don't really think Riot thought it through that much. I think it's fine to have teams dropping out if there was something else out there for them. Actually like only 4 being secured if that was the case
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
May 03 2013 23:59 GMT
#1257
So I might apply to work for Riot after hearing they have free cereal.

Now that's a job.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
May 04 2013 00:02 GMT
#1258
Is LoLreplay borked for anybody else? I used to be able to get them to work if I hit repair but now I only see the champions and a few select models while all of the terrain is pitch black.
Retvrn to Forvms
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-04 00:15:20
May 04 2013 00:10 GMT
#1259
On May 04 2013 08:45 overt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 08:38 cLutZ wrote:
On May 04 2013 08:23 Craton wrote:
The "solution" is to not disregard regular season standings so readily.


I also don't think that the solution should include protecting CLG from relegation. While I think they deserve to be in the LCS, I think they also deserve to have to prove that.

This isn't the EPL where even mediocre teams have proven over a long history that they are worthy. LCS is literally 3 (?) months old, and real LOL competition is less than 2 years old. Only 3 of the LCS teams got into the LCS in a different way than teams like Azure are trying to, and that was less than 6 months ago!

Is there really any logic to giving the 5 teams that qualified on January 13th some innate advantage over the ones that perform well in May?


Well I mean, if you want to ignore the fact that Dignitas and CLG played so well in the first part of the season that they finished #3 and #4...

Based on season standings Dig and CLG are better teams than Vulcun and GGU. Despite the fact that Vulcun and GGU are protected and had really strong playoff runs. If the #3 and #4 team can be relegated why do we even have a league? Why not just have three months of weekly tournaments where you invite people who finish high the previous week and have qualifiers for amateur teams and teams that are "pro" who didn't finish high enough the previous week to get an invite? At least then matches would mean something. Then just have a big world qualifier tournament in the spring and summer based on points earned throughout the previous three months.

Or just copy OGN. Or just take Thorin's solution. Or Riot can come up with an entirely new system. The current system though makes the regular season completely worthless and the fact that there is no amateur scene ensures that teams are probably going to disband if they get knocked out of the LCS.


I don't want to ignore that CLG and Dig did well, I just saying dropping only 2 teams is nuts.

Edit, no one is complaining about the EU LCS, because people on SK and EG did their jobs.
Freeeeeeedom
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
May 04 2013 00:12 GMT
#1260
Bruiser Taric on ARAM is hilarious fun
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Prev 1 61 62 63 64 65 189 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech121
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2779
Rain 1553
GuemChi 1237
NaDa 46
Aegong 32
Noble 23
Icarus 7
Britney 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm144
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 718
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox952
Other Games
summit1g10877
WinterStarcraft453
PiGStarcraft248
XaKoH 236
C9.Mang0198
Mew2King75
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick583
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH66
• practicex 37
• Light_VIP 29
• Letter144
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2110
League of Legends
• Lourlo1007
• Rush997
• Stunt321
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5h 43m
Cure vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Percival vs Classic
ByuN vs Rogue
OSC
16h 43m
Replay Cast
18h 43m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 18h
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL
3 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
3 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.