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On May 04 2013 06:19 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:On May 04 2013 05:33 Shikyo wrote:On May 04 2013 05:31 Slayer91 wrote:
Actually I feel like it's more done when you don't really need a proper ad carry (maybe he won't be able to auto attack much anyway) but there's nobody else thats not an ad carry that lanes well botlane or at least that your ad player has practiced
urgots often used here but he's more of a front line guy has much less range to poke with Then I don't see why you wouldn't pick something like Wukong for botlane where you can legitly and easily go like 10-0 early instead of some utility Ez that basically guarantees that the enemy AD gets farmed. If bruisers botlane actually worked like that I guarantee you people would pick them I've played a lot of bruiser bot lane (a lot of wukong specifically as well because his W lets him trade and get out without losing all his hp, lee sin can do similar, fiora because of her double Q if the enemy AD has a jump and her W and movement speed boost to chase) and it's definitely got potential but its hard to make work and very vulnerable to jungle ganks because of the reliance on all in because you have no way to deal with poke from 2 champions I've been fiddling around with the idea of Fiora bottom lane but no one has let me pick her there yet. She at least can deal with harrass - In fact, if you max W first(which is good to do anyway) you basically completely negate harrass as well as allins. Probably only as a counterpick to something non-graves but still feels good.
I tend to max W to maybe level 3, then max Q to level 3 then E to level 3. It's like, W is good for anti harass when but putting too much means you lose all in potential, making Q is good for damage but you want the better ms and as for fights, then you max q>e>w. It's weird and like the only champ I do that on.
The best thing is fiora has unreal towerdiving ability, the ult+ignite does ridiculous damage for something that can also dodge a tower shot if timed well
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Hey guys I remade sion, riot pls hire
Meets all of the new riot specifications for new champs
>has 2 forms, one ranged and one melee
>does percent based damage. in an AOE
>retains a shield, as well as MR/armor bonuses in his melee form (which will be removed later)
>now has a gap closer.
>CC is now doubled. And in an AOE.
Sion, the Undead/Re-dead Champion
Melee form - tanky bruiser
Q – Cryptic Stare. Sion gives a bonechilling stare in a cone in the direction of his opponents. Champions caught looking back at Sion are feared for 0.75/1.0/1.25/1.5/1.75 seconds, while champions that are lucky enough to be looking away from Sion are knocked back 200 units in an attempt to escape. 30/30/30/30/30 mana.
W – Bulwark of Death. Sion covers his body in zombie goo in the form of a 80/140/200/260/320 (+1.2 AP, cause why not) damage shield. Every 0.5 seconds the shield does 0.8% (+1%/100AP) damage in a 400 radius pulse around Sion. Lasts 4 seconds. If the shield isn’t destroyed in 4 seconds, the shield is refreshed and the duration is doubled. 30/40/50/60/70 mana.
E – Lifelust. Sion uses his own HP to permanently raise his AD. Costs 3 of sion’s max HP at all levels. Raises his AD permanently by 1/2/3/4/5 and reduces his max HP by 3. 10 second cooldown.
E – passive. Lifelust also passively collects generated souls like Thresh. Upon collecting a soul, Sion’s HP and AP are raised permanently by 3 and 1 respectively.
R – Reborn. Sion switches between melee and ranged forms. Upon casting, Sion dives into his grave and is untargetable for 1.25 seconds, but can still move freely as he burrows underground between graves. Upon exiting his grave, Sion will either (a)dash toward his nearest opposing champion if switching from ranged to melee, or (b) dash to 650 units away from the nearest opposing champion if switching from melee to ranged. Upon switching to melee his next attack will stun for 0.5 seconds. Upon switching to ranged his next attack will have 100 bonus range and do 0.5%HP (+0.5%/100AD) physical damage.
Ranged form – ranged tanky bruiser. Throws bones, axe is used defensively. 550 auto range.
Q – Big-boned. Toggle abilty. When toggled, sion’s ranged auto attacks grant a 50%/60/70/80/90% cleave in a 150 radius around their primary target. Each attack drains 1/2/3/4/5 mana.
W – Axe block passive. Sion passively uses his massive axe to defend from every 3rd physical attack, negating 30/40/50/60/70% of the auto attack.
W – Magic axe block. Sion imbues his axe with magic to block a single-target spell. If the spell is blocked, his HP increases by 3 permanently. Costs 50/60/70/80/90 mana. Mana is refunded if a spell is blocked.
E – Deathlust. A single-target deathblast that deals 10% + (10%/12/14/16/18% of sion’s max HP) in physical Damage. If it deals a killing blow, sion’s HP is increased by 3/4/5/6/7 permanently. Costs 40/40/40/40/40 mana.
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United States23745 Posts
On May 04 2013 06:30 gtrsrs wrote:
Hey guys I remade sion, riot pls hire
Meets all of the new riot specifications for new champs
>has 2 forms, one ranged and one melee
>does percent based damage. in an AOE
>retains a shield, as well as MR/armor bonuses in his melee form (which will be removed later)
>now has a gap closer.
>CC is now doubled. And in an AOE.
Sion, the Undead/Re-dead Champion
Melee form - tanky bruiser
Q – Cryptic Stare. Sion gives a bonechilling stare in a cone in the direction of his opponents. Champions caught looking back at Sion are feared for 0.75/1.0/1.25/1.5/1.75 seconds, while champions that are lucky enough to be looking away from Sion are knocked back 200 units in an attempt to escape. 30/30/30/30/30 mana.
W – Bulwark of Death. Sion covers his body in zombie goo in the form of a 80/140/200/260/320 (+1.2 AP, cause why not) damage shield. Every 0.5 seconds the shield does 0.8% (+1%/100AP) damage in a 400 radius pulse around Sion. Lasts 4 seconds. If the shield isn’t destroyed in 4 seconds, the shield is refreshed and the duration is doubled. 30/40/50/60/70 mana.
E – Lifelust. Sion uses his own HP to permanently raise his AD. Costs 3 of sion’s max HP at all levels. Raises his AD permanently by 1/2/3/4/5 and reduces his max HP by 3. 10 second cooldown.
E – passive. Lifelust also passively collects generated souls like Thresh. Upon collecting a soul, Sion’s HP and AP are raised permanently by 3 and 1 respectively.
R – Reborn. Sion switches between melee and ranged forms. Upon casting, Sion dives into his grave and is untargetable for 1.25 seconds, but can still move freely as he burrows underground between graves. Upon exiting his grave, Sion will either (a)dash toward his nearest opposing champion if switching from ranged to melee, or (b) dash to 650 units away from the nearest opposing champion if switching from melee to ranged. Upon switching to melee his next attack will stun for 0.5 seconds. Upon switching to ranged his next attack will have 100 bonus range and do 0.5%HP (+0.5%/100AD) physical damage.
Ranged form – ranged tanky bruiser. Throws bones, axe is used defensively. 550 auto range.
Q – Big-boned. Toggle abilty. When toggled, sion’s ranged auto attacks grant a 50%/60/70/80/90% cleave in a 150 radius around their primary target. Each attack drains 1/2/3/4/5 mana.
W – Axe block passive. Sion passively uses his massive axe to defend from every 3rd physical attack, negating 30/40/50/60/70% of the auto attack.
W – Magic axe block. Sion imbues his axe with magic to block a single-target spell. If the spell is blocked, his HP increases by 3 permanently. Costs 50/60/70/80/90 mana. Mana is refunded if a spell is blocked.
E – Deathlust. A single-target deathblast that deals 10% + (10%/12/14/16/18% of sion’s max HP) in physical Damage. If it deals a killing blow, sion’s HP is increased by 3/4/5/6/7 permanently. Costs 40/40/40/40/40 mana.
The part about Armor/MR on melee being removed later made me chuckle pretty hard.
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On May 04 2013 06:23 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:19 Shikyo wrote:On May 04 2013 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:On May 04 2013 05:33 Shikyo wrote:On May 04 2013 05:31 Slayer91 wrote:
Actually I feel like it's more done when you don't really need a proper ad carry (maybe he won't be able to auto attack much anyway) but there's nobody else thats not an ad carry that lanes well botlane or at least that your ad player has practiced
urgots often used here but he's more of a front line guy has much less range to poke with Then I don't see why you wouldn't pick something like Wukong for botlane where you can legitly and easily go like 10-0 early instead of some utility Ez that basically guarantees that the enemy AD gets farmed. If bruisers botlane actually worked like that I guarantee you people would pick them I've played a lot of bruiser bot lane (a lot of wukong specifically as well because his W lets him trade and get out without losing all his hp, lee sin can do similar, fiora because of her double Q if the enemy AD has a jump and her W and movement speed boost to chase) and it's definitely got potential but its hard to make work and very vulnerable to jungle ganks because of the reliance on all in because you have no way to deal with poke from 2 champions I've been fiddling around with the idea of Fiora bottom lane but no one has let me pick her there yet. She at least can deal with harrass - In fact, if you max W first(which is good to do anyway) you basically completely negate harrass as well as allins. Probably only as a counterpick to something non-graves but still feels good. I tend to max W to maybe level 3, then max Q to level 3 then E to level 3. It's like, W is good for anti harass when but putting too much means you lose all in potential, making Q is good for damage but you want the better ms and as for fights, then you max q>e>w. It's weird and like the only champ I do that on. The best thing is fiora has unreal towerdiving ability, the ult+ignite does ridiculous damage for something that can also dodge a tower shot if timed well
You MAX w... to level 3....
? ? ?
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On May 04 2013 06:36 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:30 gtrsrs wrote:
Hey guys I remade sion, riot pls hire
Meets all of the new riot specifications for new champs
>has 2 forms, one ranged and one melee
>does percent based damage. in an AOE
>retains a shield, as well as MR/armor bonuses in his melee form (which will be removed later)
>now has a gap closer.
>CC is now doubled. And in an AOE.
Sion, the Undead/Re-dead Champion
Melee form - tanky bruiser
Q – Cryptic Stare. Sion gives a bonechilling stare in a cone in the direction of his opponents. Champions caught looking back at Sion are feared for 0.75/1.0/1.25/1.5/1.75 seconds, while champions that are lucky enough to be looking away from Sion are knocked back 200 units in an attempt to escape. 30/30/30/30/30 mana.
W – Bulwark of Death. Sion covers his body in zombie goo in the form of a 80/140/200/260/320 (+1.2 AP, cause why not) damage shield. Every 0.5 seconds the shield does 0.8% (+1%/100AP) damage in a 400 radius pulse around Sion. Lasts 4 seconds. If the shield isn’t destroyed in 4 seconds, the shield is refreshed and the duration is doubled. 30/40/50/60/70 mana.
E – Lifelust. Sion uses his own HP to permanently raise his AD. Costs 3 of sion’s max HP at all levels. Raises his AD permanently by 1/2/3/4/5 and reduces his max HP by 3. 10 second cooldown.
E – passive. Lifelust also passively collects generated souls like Thresh. Upon collecting a soul, Sion’s HP and AP are raised permanently by 3 and 1 respectively.
R – Reborn. Sion switches between melee and ranged forms. Upon casting, Sion dives into his grave and is untargetable for 1.25 seconds, but can still move freely as he burrows underground between graves. Upon exiting his grave, Sion will either (a)dash toward his nearest opposing champion if switching from ranged to melee, or (b) dash to 650 units away from the nearest opposing champion if switching from melee to ranged. Upon switching to melee his next attack will stun for 0.5 seconds. Upon switching to ranged his next attack will have 100 bonus range and do 0.5%HP (+0.5%/100AD) physical damage.
Ranged form – ranged tanky bruiser. Throws bones, axe is used defensively. 550 auto range.
Q – Big-boned. Toggle abilty. When toggled, sion’s ranged auto attacks grant a 50%/60/70/80/90% cleave in a 150 radius around their primary target. Each attack drains 1/2/3/4/5 mana.
W – Axe block passive. Sion passively uses his massive axe to defend from every 3rd physical attack, negating 30/40/50/60/70% of the auto attack.
W – Magic axe block. Sion imbues his axe with magic to block a single-target spell. If the spell is blocked, his HP increases by 3 permanently. Costs 50/60/70/80/90 mana. Mana is refunded if a spell is blocked.
E – Deathlust. A single-target deathblast that deals 10% + (10%/12/14/16/18% of sion’s max HP) in physical Damage. If it deals a killing blow, sion’s HP is increased by 3/4/5/6/7 permanently. Costs 40/40/40/40/40 mana. The part about Armor/MR on melee being removed later made me chuckle pretty hard.
So basically Thresh Quinn and Jayce somehow had a threesome and had a zombie lovechild.
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hoooooooooly shit karma is so strong right now
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On May 04 2013 06:23 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:19 Shikyo wrote:On May 04 2013 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:On May 04 2013 05:33 Shikyo wrote:On May 04 2013 05:31 Slayer91 wrote:
Actually I feel like it's more done when you don't really need a proper ad carry (maybe he won't be able to auto attack much anyway) but there's nobody else thats not an ad carry that lanes well botlane or at least that your ad player has practiced
urgots often used here but he's more of a front line guy has much less range to poke with Then I don't see why you wouldn't pick something like Wukong for botlane where you can legitly and easily go like 10-0 early instead of some utility Ez that basically guarantees that the enemy AD gets farmed. If bruisers botlane actually worked like that I guarantee you people would pick them I've played a lot of bruiser bot lane (a lot of wukong specifically as well because his W lets him trade and get out without losing all his hp, lee sin can do similar, fiora because of her double Q if the enemy AD has a jump and her W and movement speed boost to chase) and it's definitely got potential but its hard to make work and very vulnerable to jungle ganks because of the reliance on all in because you have no way to deal with poke from 2 champions I've been fiddling around with the idea of Fiora bottom lane but no one has let me pick her there yet. She at least can deal with harrass - In fact, if you max W first(which is good to do anyway) you basically completely negate harrass as well as allins. Probably only as a counterpick to something non-graves but still feels good. I tend to max W to maybe level 3, then max Q to level 3 then E to level 3. It's like, W is good for anti harass when but putting too much means you lose all in potential, making Q is good for damage but you want the better ms and as for fights, then you max q>e>w. It's weird and like the only champ I do that on. The best thing is fiora has unreal towerdiving ability, the ult+ignite does ridiculous damage for something that can also dodge a tower shot if timed well
Is W really bad for allin potential? It's +flat AD after all, and if the ADc doesn't auto her gl winning the trade(and if they do they take 300 magic dmg)
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So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On May 04 2013 05:00 Artok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 04:56 Slayer91 wrote:
Q's proc iceborn sheen proc as well as the muramana active i know, but getting there is my problem, it feels like i waste ezreal's early game with shit like tear and all these items are garbage before they are fully finished, so if my team falls a bit behind im done for.
A popular adaptation of this at the minute is Bloodthirster - tear - sheen then finish the items. It slows it down a bit but doesn't sacrifice any early game trading power and fights that will happen.
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On May 04 2013 06:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:
hoooooooooly shit karma is so strong right now
Didn't you say that already at release? Did you mean "Karma is so strong even Riot will end up noticing it... on the condition that she's picked in LCS matches"?
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On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler +
I think that format is stupid for a few reasons:
1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to.
2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs.
3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this:
A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches
B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs.
C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches.
D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination.
Edit: Also,
How is it that there is no State of the League that is even approaching the level of SOTG? Travis's show is absolutely boring, not only in that it lacks star power, but it lacks substantive discussion. Its basically a talk about NA and EU lcs matches (which everyone already knows about) with reddit-level analysis. It should be a short discussion of results (with some asian scene updates) with in-depth discussion of any new strategies that have come out + ample amounts of Idra-like QQ about "OP" stuff.
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On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler + I think that format is stupid for a few reasons: 1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to. 2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs. 3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this: A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs. C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches. D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination.
The big thing is that it's kind of silly that GGU had a 39% win percentage during the regular season yet finished 2nd whereas Dignitas had a 64% win record yet they could get eliminated entirely.
The playoff format is identical to Brood War's team league format. I think it's pretty ideal given this is only an 8 team league. If they want to increase the size of the league then they can do a different playoff format but there is zero reason to have a league if the team who finished 6th can potentially win everything. Just don't have a league and have weekly prize money tournaments.
The main issue that I, and most people I think, have with the LCS is that a league should determine consistency. GGU winning two best of 3s shouldn't cement them as the #2 team for the previous season.
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On May 04 2013 07:04 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 06:23 Slayer91 wrote:On May 04 2013 06:19 Shikyo wrote:On May 04 2013 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:On May 04 2013 05:33 Shikyo wrote:On May 04 2013 05:31 Slayer91 wrote:
Actually I feel like it's more done when you don't really need a proper ad carry (maybe he won't be able to auto attack much anyway) but there's nobody else thats not an ad carry that lanes well botlane or at least that your ad player has practiced
urgots often used here but he's more of a front line guy has much less range to poke with Then I don't see why you wouldn't pick something like Wukong for botlane where you can legitly and easily go like 10-0 early instead of some utility Ez that basically guarantees that the enemy AD gets farmed. If bruisers botlane actually worked like that I guarantee you people would pick them I've played a lot of bruiser bot lane (a lot of wukong specifically as well because his W lets him trade and get out without losing all his hp, lee sin can do similar, fiora because of her double Q if the enemy AD has a jump and her W and movement speed boost to chase) and it's definitely got potential but its hard to make work and very vulnerable to jungle ganks because of the reliance on all in because you have no way to deal with poke from 2 champions I've been fiddling around with the idea of Fiora bottom lane but no one has let me pick her there yet. She at least can deal with harrass - In fact, if you max W first(which is good to do anyway) you basically completely negate harrass as well as allins. Probably only as a counterpick to something non-graves but still feels good. I tend to max W to maybe level 3, then max Q to level 3 then E to level 3. It's like, W is good for anti harass when but putting too much means you lose all in potential, making Q is good for damage but you want the better ms and as for fights, then you max q>e>w. It's weird and like the only champ I do that on. The best thing is fiora has unreal towerdiving ability, the ult+ignite does ridiculous damage for something that can also dodge a tower shot if timed well Is W really bad for allin potential? It's +flat AD after all, and if the ADc doesn't auto her gl winning the trade(and if they do they take 300 magic dmg)
If they just need to escape and can harass you down or whatever, or you're trying to tower dive or something, the support can auto you instead once or something.
W gives AD but Q reduces CD by quite a bit per rank and 50 damage per rank as well I'd say its worth it.
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On May 04 2013 07:28 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler + I think that format is stupid for a few reasons: 1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to. 2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs. 3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this: A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs. C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches. D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination. The big thing is that it's kind of silly that GGU had a 39% win percentage during the regular season yet finished 2nd whereas Dignitas had a 64% win record yet they could get eliminated entirely. The playoff format is identical to Brood War's team league format. I think it's pretty ideal given this is only an 8 team league. If they want to increase the size of the league then they can do a different playoff format but there is zero reason to have a league if the team who finished 6th can potentially win everything. Just don't have a league and have weekly prize money tournaments. The main issue that I, and most people I think, have with the LCS is that a league should determine consistency. GGU winning two best of 3s shouldn't cement them as the #2 team for the previous season.
The tournament format absolutely makes sense if your interest is in stories/hype. The closest analogue for it in real sports is NCAA Basketball.
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On May 04 2013 07:28 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler + I think that format is stupid for a few reasons: 1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to. 2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs. 3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this: A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs. C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches. D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination. The big thing is that it's kind of silly that GGU had a 39% win percentage during the regular season yet finished 2nd whereas Dignitas had a 64% win record yet they could get eliminated entirely. The playoff format is identical to Brood War's team league format. I think it's pretty ideal given this is only an 8 team league. If they want to increase the size of the league then they can do a different playoff format but there is zero reason to have a league if the team who finished 6th can potentially win everything. Just don't have a league and have weekly prize money tournaments. The main issue that I, and most people I think, have with the LCS is that a league should determine consistency. GGU winning two best of 3s shouldn't cement them as the #2 team for the previous season.
I agree that everyone who makes the playoffs should definitely not be able to drop out of the league. I believe that the main problem is simply the fact that there's too few teams in the LCS while also needing a good playoffs bracket. If we had like 16 teams we could have a 8 man playoff bracket and 8 teams guaranteed to stay in. Don't even need 16 of course, something like 12 would do.
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It's bad design to use playoff results to determine seeding or demotion.
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On May 04 2013 07:38 SimulatedAnneal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:28 overt wrote:On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler + I think that format is stupid for a few reasons: 1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to. 2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs. 3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this: A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs. C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches. D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination. The big thing is that it's kind of silly that GGU had a 39% win percentage during the regular season yet finished 2nd whereas Dignitas had a 64% win record yet they could get eliminated entirely. The playoff format is identical to Brood War's team league format. I think it's pretty ideal given this is only an 8 team league. If they want to increase the size of the league then they can do a different playoff format but there is zero reason to have a league if the team who finished 6th can potentially win everything. Just don't have a league and have weekly prize money tournaments. The main issue that I, and most people I think, have with the LCS is that a league should determine consistency. GGU winning two best of 3s shouldn't cement them as the #2 team for the previous season. The tournament format absolutely makes sense if your interest is in stories/hype. The closest analogue for it in real sports is NCAA Basketball.
Even that analogy is pretty terrible though. Sure they have 64 teams in the playoffs but when you have 340 teams it makes a 64 team playoff seem pretty small. The LCS has 75% of the regular season teams making it to the playoffs which is pretty insane.
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United States23745 Posts
On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler + I think that format is stupid for a few reasons: 1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to. 2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs. 3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this: A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs. C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches. D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination. Edit: Also, How is it that there is no State of the League that is even approaching the level of SOTG? Travis's show is absolutely boring, not only in that it lacks star power, but it lacks substantive discussion. Its basically a talk about NA and EU lcs matches (which everyone already knows about) with reddit-level analysis. It should be a short discussion of results (with some asian scene updates) with in-depth discussion of any new strategies that have come out + ample amounts of Idra-like QQ about "OP" stuff.
Whose League is for LoL content creators, State of the League is where he has pro players on (but he's had a hard time finding people willing to give up practice time to do the show).
The current LCS format isn't that bad, it would just be better if there were more teams (I don't want more teams, but it would alleviate a lot of problems people have with the current system). I don't see the problem with GGU finishing 6th in the regular season and 2nd in the playoffs, the Kings won the Stanley Cup last year as an eight seed and the last two times the Giants won the Super Bowl they had pretty mediocre regular seasons. GGU came to play in the playoffs and beat both Curse and dig fair and square, who cares about regular season record at that point.
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On May 04 2013 07:48 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler + I think that format is stupid for a few reasons: 1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to. 2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs. 3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this: A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs. C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches. D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination. Edit: Also, How is it that there is no State of the League that is even approaching the level of SOTG? Travis's show is absolutely boring, not only in that it lacks star power, but it lacks substantive discussion. Its basically a talk about NA and EU lcs matches (which everyone already knows about) with reddit-level analysis. It should be a short discussion of results (with some asian scene updates) with in-depth discussion of any new strategies that have come out + ample amounts of Idra-like QQ about "OP" stuff. Whose League is for LoL content creators, State of the League is where he has pro players on (but he's had a hard time finding people willing to give up practice time to do the show). The current LCS format isn't that bad, it would just be better if there were more teams (I don't want more teams, but it would alleviate a lot of problems people have with the current system). I don't see the problem with GGU finishing 6th in the regular season and 2nd in the playoffs, the Kings won the Stanley Cup last year as an eight seed and the last two times the Giants won the Super Bowl they had pretty mediocre regular seasons. GGU came to play in the playoffs and beat both Curse and dig fair and square, who cares about regular season record at that point.
SOTL still sucks because they never discuss anything interesting.
Also I think most people are only mildly upset at GGU's 2nd place playoffs result, but seem cataclysmically upset that Dig and CLG might get relegated. The fairness of both would really be alleviated with a few things.
1. Bo5 for all rounds in the "playoffs"
2. A 5th place match so only 1 of CLG/Dig is fighting for relegation.
1/2 the league being potentially turned over is possibly a bit extreme. But only 2 would be so incumbent-friendly. As it is they are already getting a bye into the final round of relegation (also stupid).
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On May 04 2013 07:48 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2013 07:21 cLutZ wrote:On May 04 2013 07:10 overt wrote:So I watched some of the "whatever Travis' show is called" because it was about the LCS format and I think a lot of the talks about changing up the format are really interesting...and I just have to say I really wish that Thorin would become a Travis-like dude. Thorin's insight is great, his ideas are great, and he just comes across as not only a smart dude but an incredibly professional guy. His suggestion for re-working the LCS is top notch. I know that Thorin already does grilled interviews with pro players but he should really consider doing a weekly show like what Slasher/JP/Travis already do as I think he could probably make a far better show than any of them. + Show Spoiler + I think that format is stupid for a few reasons: 1. It is far too establishment-friendly. Given there is only 8 teams allowed in LCS, giving top 6 a pass is ridiculous. Especially considering that 2 of the top 6 qualified in basically the same way those amateur teams are trying to. 2. The proposed playoff format is far too boring. No real upsets allowed at all. Playoffs aren't about finding out who is the best, if you think that is what they are about you are ignoring the reality of the last 20 years of NFL/NCAA/MLB/NHL playoffs. 3. Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an absolutely fixed format? Why not something like this: A. Bottom 2 of LCS automatically sent to up down matches B. Top 3-4 Guaranteed not in up/downs. C. 5,6(4) have to earn X amount of points in the playoffs to avoid up-down matches. D. Up-Downs need not be single-elimination. Edit: Also, How is it that there is no State of the League that is even approaching the level of SOTG? Travis's show is absolutely boring, not only in that it lacks star power, but it lacks substantive discussion. Its basically a talk about NA and EU lcs matches (which everyone already knows about) with reddit-level analysis. It should be a short discussion of results (with some asian scene updates) with in-depth discussion of any new strategies that have come out + ample amounts of Idra-like QQ about "OP" stuff. Whose League is for LoL content creators, State of the League is where he has pro players on (but he's had a hard time finding people willing to give up practice time to do the show). The current LCS format isn't that bad, it would just be better if there were more teams (I don't want more teams, but it would alleviate a lot of problems people have with the current system). I don't see the problem with GGU finishing 6th in the regular season and 2nd in the playoffs, the Kings won the Stanley Cup last year as an eight seed and the last two times the Giants won the Super Bowl they had pretty mediocre regular seasons. GGU came to play in the playoffs and beat both Curse and dig fair and square, who cares about regular season record at that point.
Real sports analogies are not good at all and don't work. The Kings had a winning record in the NHL lol. GGU getting to be in the playoffs at all would be like the Edmonton Oilers getting to go to the playoffs. When you have 30 some teams it's expected that you have a 16 team playoff. Every single one of the teams in the playoffs for last seasons NHL had a 50% winrate or better. In fact, several of the teams that didn't make it into the playoffs had a better than 50% winrate.
You can use real sports analogies when you find a team with a record like GGU's that got into the playoffs at all. Much less finished 2nd place. GGU doing well in the playoffs is cool and makes for a great story. I think they're a good team and they'll do well next season. But Curse's season record is way more impressive than GGU winning two sets against Dig and Curse imoimo.
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